MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

To follow up... recruits are allowed to play pick-up games, or open gyms, with the team as long as no coaches are involved and as long as there are no requirements from players to be there (expectations). If it is just guys playing... so be it. No big deal.

There also can't be evaluation.  I believe, if the players report back to the coaches about how good the recruit is or whether he'll fit in, strengths/weaknesses, etc - that's prohibited.

I think Point's case is more extreme, but here is an example case:

A current player at UW Eau Claire goes to a YMCA and plays in a pick-up game with a high school kid who tells him he is a senior at Eau Claire Memorial HS and might want to play college basketball.  The player tells his coach about the kid (his name, skills, demeanor and potential interest) and the coach follows up with an introductory phone call to his coach and/or the player.   

Three scenarios: 

1) A week later, the player goes back and plays in the same pick-up game.  He does nothing to influence the kid and says nothing to his coach after,

2) A week later, the player goes back and plays in the same pick-up game.  He does nothing to influence the kid, but updates the  coach after,

3) A week later, the player goes back and plays in the same pick-up game.  He tells the kid he would like him to visit Eau Claire and meet the team, and updates the  coach after.

Which of these is a violation?  Should any of them be a violation?  This is crazy if these activities aren't allowed.  I don't know how coaches can possibly not get into non-compliance positions (without malice) as good players want to play with good players, whether they become recruits or not.  WIAC schools don't pay coaches enough to have eyes in the back of their head.   



 

From my understanding of what we've been discussing for a week there may not be a violation in any of the three but D'Mac will be able to shed more light on it.

As I understand these scenarios... it is an off-site location, not on campus, involving a single player. Pretty sure they are not violations. I can certainly check on the particulars. If the coach was there, it might get into gray area, but you picked scenarios that have nothing to do with the campus or the gym the school uses as their own.

[AndOne]

Question for Oshkosh and/or other WIAC fans..............

I apologize if this has been asked and answered previously.

I have noticed that sophomore Sam Johnson is longer on the UWO roster. Does anyone know if he quit the team, sustained a season ending injury, or what any other possible reason for his no longer being on the roster might have been? Thanks.

Johnson was a very heavily recruited player out of Riverside-Brookfield HS in Illinois. I'd say 8-10 teams were after him. I am personally aware that one team about 1/2 hour west of his HS that has made a bit of noise nationally in the last few years had him as their number 1 or 2 target that year.
Given what he did in HS, and how many teams were after him, I was surprised that he didn't play more at UWO.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

To follow up... recruits are allowed to play pick-up games, or open gyms, with the team as long as no coaches are involved and as long as there are no requirements from players to be there (expectations). If it is just guys playing... so be it. No big deal.

There also can't be evaluation.  I believe, if the players report back to the coaches about how good the recruit is or whether he'll fit in, strengths/weaknesses, etc - that's prohibited.

I think Point's case is more extreme, but here is an example case:

A current player at UW Eau Claire goes to a YMCA and plays in a pick-up game with a high school kid who tells him he is a senior at Eau Claire Memorial HS and might want to play college basketball.  The player tells his coach about the kid (his name, skills, demeanor and potential interest) and the coach follows up with an introductory phone call to his coach and/or the player.   

Three scenarios: 

1) A week later, the player goes back and plays in the same pick-up game.  He does nothing to influence the kid and says nothing to his coach after,

2) A week later, the player goes back and plays in the same pick-up game.  He does nothing to influence the kid, but updates the  coach after,

3) A week later, the player goes back and plays in the same pick-up game.  He tells the kid he would like him to visit Eau Claire and meet the team, and updates the  coach after.

Which of these is a violation?  Should any of them be a violation?  This is crazy if these activities aren't allowed.  I don't know how coaches can possibly not get into non-compliance positions (without malice) as good players want to play with good players, whether they become recruits or not.  WIAC schools don't pay coaches enough to have eyes in the back of their head.   



 

From my understanding of what we've been discussing for a week there may not be a violation in any of the three but D'Mac will be able to shed more light on it.

As I understand these scenarios... it is an off-site location, not on campus, involving a single player. Pretty sure they are not violations. I can certainly check on the particulars. If the coach was there, it might get into gray area, but you picked scenarios that have nothing to do with the campus or the gym the school uses as their own.

Off-site, anything is allowed so long as the recruit has finished their sophomore year of high school.  It's on campus stuff that's pretty stringent.  When recruits are on campus, there's no evaluation allowed - all of that has to be done over the phone or off campus.

Like I've been saying all along, I think there are smart ways to change this that will work better for everyone, but what we've got now is what we've got now.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

And usually smart ideas to change things... still can't get past the presidents. There is a smart idea on the table for the convention next week, but the President's Council has already come out against it, so...

[stoutguy]

Will you be around on January 25th? I think you will be on vacation then but if you are not I hope to see you at RF for the Stout game. Stout obviously has a good team.

AS I said before, I have not seen Stout to know how good they are but they sure have been playing well.  You have to realize that, for the most part, these are the same guys that lost all of their conference games last year.  I plan on seeing them against EC on Wed.  No, I will not be around on the 25th.  I loved your Hudson kid when he was in HS and it looks like he continues to get better. 

[tomt4525]

I'm kind of surprised this hasn't been brought up yet with as many Point fans that lurk on here, and I'll be the first to admit it probably makes zero change in the outcome as Bublitz still needed to hit about a half court shot to get the win for the Pointers.  But, there was some definite home cookin' at the scorer's table on Saturday.  Apparently it takes 1.8 seconds to dribble once because that's what Bublitz did and the buzzer went off at that point.  Scorers table snafu's happen but what bothers me the most is that the refs had a chance to make it right after it was blatantly obvious the clock was started early, but chose not to and called the game anyways.

Like I said, probably doesn't make a difference, but still don't like that it happened.  Also, Herink was absolutely not fouled on that last shot.  I'm glad it went in at that point instead of him winning it for RF at the line.  For the stripes to call that foul with 2 seconds to go is pathetic.  Freeborn played that possession perfectly on defense and Herink just made a tough shot, tip the hat to him on that play.

[badgerwarhawk]

Platteville (7-8, 0-4): 66
WARHAWKS (12-3, 1-3): 68

The WARHAWKS started fast building a 17-4 lead before the Pioneers used a 7-0 run to close to 17-11 after a little over eleven minutes of play.  Drew Bryson's three pointer pushed the lead back to nine points but the Pioneers outscored the WARHAWKS 18-11 in what remained of the half to reduced their deficit to a pair 31-29 when it ended.  Bryson (7), Scotty Tyler (7) and Chris Jones (6) combined for twenty of the WARHAWKS thirty one while Carter Voelker (12) and Robert Duax (10) accounted for twenty two of Platteville's twenty nine.  In the first four and half minutes of the second half the WARHAWKS maintained a one or two possession lead and the Pioneers tied the game on two occasions before they took a 38-37 lead.  The Pioneer lead reached a high of seven points a couple of times after that but for most of the next ten minutes the lead was a possession or two with the WARHAWKS staying close primarily by hitting on 13 of 19 free throws before finally taking a one point lead 55-54 on a three point play by Andre Brown.  The two teams exchanged the lead on each one's next possession before Cole VanSchyndel scored consecutive baskets giving the WARHAWKS a 59-56 lead with a little over four and half minutes remaining.  The lead reached six points before the Pioneers clawed to a 66-66 tie with thirty seconds on the clock.  After a WARHAWKS time out VanSchyndel scored the winning basket from inside with three seconds to play and the Pioneers were unable to get a final shot off before the buzzer sounded.  VanSchyndel in the second half was the difference.

VanSchyndel: 17 points (7-9 FT) in 15 minutes
Brown: 14 points, 3 rebounds, 3 steals
Rongstad: 2 points, 6 rebounds, 7 assists, 4 steals
Tyler: 9 points, 7 rebounds, 3 steals
Demetrius Woodley: 7 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists
Bryson: 9 points, 2 rebounds.
Team: 40-24 paint points, 33-18 off the bench

Statistical oddity:  The Pioneers took exactly the same number of shots (28) and made the same number of baskets (11) in both halves.  They were distributed differently with 15 three point attempts in the first half and 9 in the second one.  But I don't recall seeing this before.

[Greek Tragedy]

Tomt4525,

I didn't see the game, so I can't comment on the play. It does remind of our 1st National Championship. Kalsow nails that turn around jumper and then somehow Williams has time to throw the ball in, take a few steps and launch a shot that hits the backboard and rims out. My immediate thought was, "how the heck did he have time to do that?" Well, the shot didn't gonin, so who cares?!

[John Gleich]

Tomt4525,

I didn't see the game, so I can't comment on the play. It does remind of our 1st National Championship. Kalsow nails that turn around jumper and then somehow Williams has time to throw the ball in, take a few steps and launch a shot that hits the backboard and rims out. My immediate thought was, "how the heck did he have time to do that?" Well, the shot didn't gonin, so who cares?!

The shot was waved off, so even though Crotty almost hit that full court shot, it wouldn't have counted, even if it went in (instead of just bouncing off the rim).

[RedHotFalcon]

Rf point game. I thought a foul should have been called on initial catch with Herink. Definite push. On drive solid d. However, with 13 sec left, Erickson is stealing pass and was going In for layup. Foul was called for point to take the lead on ft's. I wasn't sure that was a foul.

[tomt4525]

Rf point game. I thought a foul should have been called on initial catch with Herink. Definite push. On drive solid d. However, with 13 sec left, Erickson is stealing pass and was going In for layup. Foul was called for point to take the lead on ft's. I wasn't sure that was a foul.

Nothing to say about starting the clock early??  I'll disagree that Freeborn pushed Herink at all on the last possession, he was in solid defensive position the entire play.  Foul was called on the drive where you said it was solid D.  I'll agree that it was a call that could go either way that sent Delmore to the line to give Point the lead, but with how the refs were calling the game...they had to call that.

[RedHotFalcon]

Video I saw shows a good chuck on catch!  Judgement call. No call on foul. I'm ok on that. Like you said it's probably why delmore got to line. The way they were calling.  On time ,grabbed ball on base line, maybe should have let it go out of bounds. Horn went off around bench after getting around d. Could have been early, but how much?.3, .4, .5. Not sure what refs would have done. Weird angle for clock guy. Don't think intentional.

[tomt4525]

Video I saw shows a good chuck on catch!  Judgement call. No call on foul. I'm ok on that. Like you said it's probably why delmore got to line. The way they were calling.  On time ,grabbed ball on base line, maybe should have let it go out of bounds. Horn went off around bench after getting around d. Could have been early, but how much?.3, .4, .5. Not sure what refs would have done. Weird angle for clock guy. Don't think intentional.

I certainly don't think it was intentional to start the clock early, things like that happen.  I'm just saying it happened and it's unfortunate that the refs didn't put more time on the clock because of it.  I will say it was more than .3, .4 or .5 seconds early though.  Bublitz got the ball in the corner, as he got to the ball he was already turning up court and dribbled once, before he was able to dribble again or do anything else...the buzzer sounded.  With 1.8 seconds on the clock, most people can take 2 long dribbles before making a heave towards the hoop.  I said from my first post on the subject, probably didn't make a difference because Bublitz still needed to make a half courter, just wish it was played out the way it should have.

As has come across, I didn't like the officiating at all.  It's a thankless job so there will be people that come out of the gym after every game not happy with the officiating.  I've been asked to start officiating on multiple occasions and it's because of this fact that I don't get involved in it.  I didn't like how at some points the stripes allowed extremely physical play and other spurts where there were whistles for breathing on someone.  I've been involved coaching softball and never give a hard time to umpires unless the zone is inconsistent.  Same thing applies for the UWSP at UWRF game on Saturday.  Stripes were inconsistent with how they wanted to call the game.

[badgerwarhawk]

 Give the clock operator a break and cut them some slack.   

Screw the officials 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Video I saw shows a good chuck on catch!  Judgement call. No call on foul. I'm ok on that. Like you said it's probably why delmore got to line. The way they were calling.  On time ,grabbed ball on base line, maybe should have let it go out of bounds. Horn went off around bench after getting around d. Could have been early, but how much?.3, .4, .5. Not sure what refs would have done. Weird angle for clock guy. Don't think intentional.

I certainly don't think it was intentional to start the clock early, things like that happen.  I'm just saying it happened and it's unfortunate that the refs didn't put more time on the clock because of it.  I will say it was more than .3, .4 or .5 seconds early though.  Bublitz got the ball in the corner, as he got to the ball he was already turning up court and dribbled once, before he was able to dribble again or do anything else...the buzzer sounded.  With 1.8 seconds on the clock, most people can take 2 long dribbles before making a heave towards the hoop.  I said from my first post on the subject, probably didn't make a difference because Bublitz still needed to make a half courter, just wish it was played out the way it should have.

As has come across, I didn't like the officiating at all.  It's a thankless job so there will be people that come out of the gym after every game not happy with the officiating.  I've been asked to start officiating on multiple occasions and it's because of this fact that I don't get involved in it.  I didn't like how at some points the stripes allowed extremely physical play and other spurts where there were whistles for breathing on someone.  I've been involved coaching softball and never give a hard time to umpires unless the zone is inconsistent.  Same thing applies for the UWSP at UWRF game on Saturday.  Stripes were inconsistent with how they wanted to call the game.

Of course, I watched Bublitz make two of those (one each at the ends of the first halves) at the Hoopsville Classic in November.  He knows how to hit them when it counts.