MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Just Bill]

I know that I shouldn't let my inner eight-year-old write posts for me anywhere other than the D3 Championship Belt room, but that phrase becomes even funnier when you put quotes around it.

You think trademarks stop at door of that other room? Calling the weasels.

[Gregory Sager]

I'm referring to the name of the room itself, which isn't trademarked because it belongs to d3sports.com.

Take that, you sharp-toothed fiends!

[tomt4525]

I would normally hold back and be politically correct on message boards, but I feel a lot of these posts are borderline attacking the kids that put in the work to win a National Championship.  They also were good enough students or good enough at budgeting their time to get the job done in the classroom as well.

To make a case that the reason UWSP won the Championship in 2015 was because they had "extra practices," is ridiculous.  To continue saying "extra practices" is really far off base if you ask me.  There is absolutely zero way a coach can know every exact rule in the rulebook, that comes down to the compliance department.  Do you really think any other coach in the country, when told he's allowed to do something from his administration, wouldn't take that to mean it's ok??  Think what you want but that's what happened.  Old AD Daron Montgomery gave the ok to Semling to observe the open gyms.  Semling did not direct them, he did not tell them drills to do.  He observed due to Montgomery telling him it was fine.  There is the blame.  Montgomery up and leaves and nothing happens to him, that is sad that he will get off with nothing.  At the very least, he needs to take some compliance classes so it doesn't happen again.

Back to the UWSP 2015 Championship season, did you happen to see that squad play defense during their playoff run??  I don't care where the games were played in the postseason, they weren't losing with their defense playing like that.  They held an East Texas Baptist potent offense to 28 total points.  They beat an Emory team that was mostly back from the year before that beat possibly the best UWSP team ever.  That team included All Americans Tyler Tillema and Trevor Hass, along with a 3rd All Conference player, Clayton Heuer.  Go ahead and watch that National Championship game against Augustana just for the defensive rotations that they made look routine.

That team finished off a Championship season when they weren't on anybody's radar preseason.  Give them the credit they are due.  I will be monumentally disappointed if the NCAA decides to take their banner away but that doesn't negate anything that team accomplished in my eyes.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm referring to the name of the room itself, which isn't trademarked because it belongs to d3sports.com.

Take that, you sharp-toothed fiends!

Ooh ... you're playing with fire!   The Belt^TM, having presumably limitless resources, may (like vengeful corporations) bring suit whether merited or not, just to drain you of every cent you've got!

[John Gleich]

Not following the question. As it pertains to UWSP and reasons to vacate wins? Or any situation and thus like TMC's?

I'm just wondering if you know of an instance where a team has had to vacate wins for some reason other than using an ineligible player.

[stoutguy]

I would normally hold back and be politically correct on message boards, but I feel a lot of these posts are borderline attacking the kids that put in the work to win a National Championship.  They also were good enough students or good enough at budgeting their time to get the job done in the classroom as well.

To make a case that the reason UWSP won the Championship in 2015 was because they had "extra practices," is ridiculous.  To continue saying "extra practices" is really far off base if you ask me.  There is absolutely zero way a coach can know every exact rule in the rulebook, that comes down to the compliance department.  Do you really think any other coach in the country, when told he's allowed to do something from his administration, wouldn't take that to mean it's ok??  Think what you want but that's what happened.  Old AD Daron Montgomery gave the ok to Semling to observe the open gyms.  Semling did not direct them, he did not tell them drills to do.  He observed due to Montgomery telling him it was fine.  There is the blame.  Montgomery up and leaves and nothing happens to him, that is sad that he will get off with nothing.  At the very least, he needs to take some compliance classes so it doesn't happen again.

Back to the UWSP 2015 Championship season, did you happen to see that squad play defense during their playoff run??  I don't care where the games were played in the postseason, they weren't losing with their defense playing like that.  They held an East Texas Baptist potent offense to 28 total points.  They beat an Emory team that was mostly back from the year before that beat possibly the best UWSP team ever.  That team included All Americans Tyler Tillema and Trevor Hass, along with a 3rd All Conference player, Clayton Heuer.  Go ahead and watch that National Championship game against Augustana just for the defensive rotations that they made look routine.

That team finished off a Championship season when they weren't on anybody's radar preseason.  Give them the credit they are due.  I will be monumentally disappointed if the NCAA decides to take their banner away but that doesn't negate anything that team accomplished in my eyes.

Thank you for deciding to not be politically correct.  I could not agree more.  The 2015 team earned and deserved everything they got.  I am hearing plenty from the "holier than thou" people who can just be very thankful that their programs have not been scrutinized like Points has.

[tomt4525]

6'6" F from Wisconsin Rapids Lincoln, Brett Hanson, has committed to Coach Andrist and UW-Stout.

[tomt4525]

6'4" F from Loyal, Cam Brussow, has also committed to Coach Andrist and UW-Stout.

[AppletonRocks]

I would normally hold back and be politically correct on message boards, but I feel a lot of these posts are borderline attacking the kids that put in the work to win a National Championship.  They also were good enough students or good enough at budgeting their time to get the job done in the classroom as well.

To make a case that the reason UWSP won the Championship in 2015 was because they had "extra practices," is ridiculous.  To continue saying "extra practices" is really far off base if you ask me.  There is absolutely zero way a coach can know every exact rule in the rulebook, that comes down to the compliance department.  Do you really think any other coach in the country, when told he's allowed to do something from his administration, wouldn't take that to mean it's ok??  Think what you want but that's what happened.  Old AD Daron Montgomery gave the ok to Semling to observe the open gyms.  Semling did not direct them, he did not tell them drills to do.  He observed due to Montgomery telling him it was fine.  There is the blame.  Montgomery up and leaves and nothing happens to him, that is sad that he will get off with nothing.  At the very least, he needs to take some compliance classes so it doesn't happen again.

Back to the UWSP 2015 Championship season, did you happen to see that squad play defense during their playoff run??  I don't care where the games were played in the postseason, they weren't losing with their defense playing like that.  They held an East Texas Baptist potent offense to 28 total points.  They beat an Emory team that was mostly back from the year before that beat possibly the best UWSP team ever.  That team included All Americans Tyler Tillema and Trevor Hass, along with a 3rd All Conference player, Clayton Heuer.  Go ahead and watch that National Championship game against Augustana just for the defensive rotations that they made look routine.

That team finished off a Championship season when they weren't on anybody's radar preseason.  Give them the credit they are due.  I will be monumentally disappointed if the NCAA decides to take their banner away but that doesn't negate anything that team accomplished in my eyes.

I didn't read anything attacking the players in the previous comments--they are victims because of the coaches (and/or administration as you suggest) lack of concern for the rules.  The coaches know the rules so your argument holds no water.   If this type of behavior is rampant in D3, I haven't heard of it. Jack Bennett isn't helping the cause with his jaywalking comments. 

If noncompliance is due to ridiculous rules that are always broken, then it's time to change the rules and end the investigation.  Call it the Point rule.  I hope that is the ultimate result, unless there are action untoward not yet disclosed. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I would normally hold back and be politically correct on message boards, but I feel a lot of these posts are borderline attacking the kids that put in the work to win a National Championship.  They also were good enough students or good enough at budgeting their time to get the job done in the classroom as well.

To make a case that the reason UWSP won the Championship in 2015 was because they had "extra practices," is ridiculous.  To continue saying "extra practices" is really far off base if you ask me.  There is absolutely zero way a coach can know every exact rule in the rulebook, that comes down to the compliance department.  Do you really think any other coach in the country, when told he's allowed to do something from his administration, wouldn't take that to mean it's ok??  Think what you want but that's what happened.  Old AD Daron Montgomery gave the ok to Semling to observe the open gyms.  Semling did not direct them, he did not tell them drills to do.  He observed due to Montgomery telling him it was fine.  There is the blame.  Montgomery up and leaves and nothing happens to him, that is sad that he will get off with nothing.  At the very least, he needs to take some compliance classes so it doesn't happen again.

Back to the UWSP 2015 Championship season, did you happen to see that squad play defense during their playoff run??  I don't care where the games were played in the postseason, they weren't losing with their defense playing like that.  They held an East Texas Baptist potent offense to 28 total points.  They beat an Emory team that was mostly back from the year before that beat possibly the best UWSP team ever.  That team included All Americans Tyler Tillema and Trevor Hass, along with a 3rd All Conference player, Clayton Heuer.  Go ahead and watch that National Championship game against Augustana just for the defensive rotations that they made look routine.

That team finished off a Championship season when they weren't on anybody's radar preseason.  Give them the credit they are due.  I will be monumentally disappointed if the NCAA decides to take their banner away but that doesn't negate anything that team accomplished in my eyes.

I have in no way attacked the players (who are not kids; they are adults) involved in this in any way shape or form. If you read into my comments as such, you are trying too hard. Your argument could be said for those on the Thomas More women's basketball team, and yet their championship was pulled as well. Yes, it is unfortunate that players can sometimes are punished as well as the program, but at the same time sometimes a message does have to be sent not only to that particular institution, but to the Division as a whole.

I had Alex Richay on Hoopsville on his on accord. I asked him point-blank questions as to the allegations. He chose not to answer one of them about illegal practices. That is fine. However, it sadly alludes that maybe the players did know what was going on. We won't truly know that until the investigation comes out. A lot of people have been interviewed including former players (though, apparently not Richey). We will find out soon enough.

I have stated that as a former student-athlete I didn't know the rules and expected my coaching staff to know them. You trust your coaching staff. It is unfortunate that students are taking a hit in terms of punishment, but you have to punish the program in some capacity.

Furthermore it should be noted, that I have stated I could argue both sides of this. I could argue for them to keep their title and I could argue they lose it. I truly think it is a 50-50 chance. The problem comes with the fact this is a repeat offense for the program, that Semling was part of the first violation, and clearly the investigation has found larger problems than a coach accidentally walking in on an open gym workout by the team. That coupled with the relative slap on the wrist in the Baruch case over the summer and the Thomas More punishment absolutely puts the title in the conversation.

By the way, all they have to do if they lose a title is return the trophy. No one is taking away the rings or forcing UWSP to take down a banner. If they choose to do it, fine, but UMass still has its banners flying.

And to your point that extra practices don't help, I can point you to plenty of basketball coaches who will laugh at the notion it doesn't help. It is also a tent poll with this division and presidents who believe that the student-athletes should be students first. While I have said that every single rule in Division III is a major rule, when you break a tent poll rule like practices it tends to be looked down far more harshly. That is just reality. We will find out in late March, April, or maybe as late as early May how the Infractions Committee feels about it. It is made up of fellow Division III institutions and they will have the ultimate say.

By the way, I don't have to watch the National Championship game to know how good UWSP was in that game/weekend - I called it. I have not taken anything away from that squad. I have spoken highly of them ever since. The investigation has nothing to do with how good they were at that point, it has to do with systemic and ongoing conduct by the coaching staff and probably those above Semling. Keep in mind in the NCAA of this key thing: everyone gets in trouble if rules are broken. It doesn't rule up hill and stop at the highest target. Everyone gets in trouble. The coach is expected to keep his/her program in compliance. Those in compliance are expected to help with that. Bosses like the Athletics Director are expected to keep the program in compliance. No one is going to escape punishment, I hope, but again we have to wait for the report to truly know what happened behind the scene.

Oh and stop with the "they weren't on anyone's radar at the beginning of the season" stuff. They were preseason ranked #7 and they NEVER fell out of the Top 25 the entire season. They weren't flying under anyone's radar. I happened to not vote for them until mid-January, but that doesn't mean I didn't know about them. And clearly the voters did. They weren't flying under anyone's radar.

Not following the question. As it pertains to UWSP and reasons to vacate wins? Or any situation and thus like TMC's?

I'm just wondering if you know of an instance where a team has had to vacate wins for some reason other than using an ineligible player.

Off the top of my head, I do not know. However, I think it has happened. I will have to do some research.

[4samuy]

I would normally hold back and be politically correct on message boards, but I feel a lot of these posts are borderline attacking the kids that put in the work to win a National Championship.  They also were good enough students or good enough at budgeting their time to get the job done in the classroom as well.

To make a case that the reason UWSP won the Championship in 2015 was because they had "extra practices," is ridiculous.  To continue saying "extra practices" is really far off base if you ask me.  There is absolutely zero way a coach can know every exact rule in the rulebook, that comes down to the compliance department.  Do you really think any other coach in the country, when told he's allowed to do something from his administration, wouldn't take that to mean it's ok??  Think what you want but that's what happened.  Old AD Daron Montgomery gave the ok to Semling to observe the open gyms.  Semling did not direct them, he did not tell them drills to do.  He observed due to Montgomery telling him it was fine.  There is the blame.  Montgomery up and leaves and nothing happens to him, that is sad that he will get off with nothing.  At the very least, he needs to take some compliance classes so it doesn't happen again.

Back to the UWSP 2015 Championship season, did you happen to see that squad play defense during their playoff run??  I don't care where the games were played in the postseason, they weren't losing with their defense playing like that.  They held an East Texas Baptist potent offense to 28 total points.  They beat an Emory team that was mostly back from the year before that beat possibly the best UWSP team ever.  That team included All Americans Tyler Tillema and Trevor Hass, along with a 3rd All Conference player, Clayton Heuer.  Go ahead and watch that National Championship game against Augustana just for the defensive rotations that they made look routine.

That team finished off a Championship season when they weren't on anybody's radar preseason.  Give them the credit they are due.  I will be monumentally disappointed if the NCAA decides to take their banner away but that doesn't negate anything that team accomplished in my eyes.

I have in no way attacked the players (who are not kids; they are adults) involved in this in any way shape or form. If you read into my comments as such, you are trying too hard. Your argument could be said for those on the Thomas More women's basketball team, and yet their championship was pulled as well. Yes, it is unfortunate that players can sometimes are punished as well as the program, but at the same time sometimes a message does have to be sent not only to that particular institution, but to the Division as a whole.

I had Alex Richay on Hoopsville on his on accord. I asked him point-blank questions as to the allegations. He chose not to answer one of them about illegal practices. That is fine. However, it sadly alludes that maybe the players did know what was going on. We won't truly know that until the investigation comes out. A lot of people have been interviewed including former players (though, apparently not Richey). We will find out soon enough.

I have stated that as a former student-athlete I didn't know the rules and expected my coaching staff to know them. You trust your coaching staff. It is unfortunate that students are taking a hit in terms of punishment, but you have to punish the program in some capacity.

Furthermore it should be noted, that I have stated I could argue both sides of this. I could argue for them to keep their title and I could argue they lose it. I truly think it is a 50-50 chance. The problem comes with the fact this is a repeat offense for the program, that Semling was part of the first violation, and clearly the investigation has found larger problems than a coach accidentally walking in on an open gym workout by the team. That coupled with the relative slap on the wrist in the Baruch case over the summer and the Thomas More punishment absolutely puts the title in the conversation.

By the way, all they have to do if they lose a title is return the trophy. No one is taking away the rings or forcing UWSP to take down a banner. If they choose to do it, fine, but UMass still has its banners flying.

And to your point that extra practices don't help, I can point you to plenty of basketball coaches who will laugh at the notion it doesn't help. It is also a tent poll with this division and presidents who believe that the student-athletes should be students first. While I have said that every single rule in Division III is a major rule, when you break a tent poll rule like practices it tends to be looked down far more harshly. That is just reality. We will find out in late March, April, or maybe as late as early May how the Infractions Committee feels about it. It is made up of fellow Division III institutions and they will have the ultimate say.

By the way, I don't have to watch the National Championship game to know how good UWSP was in that game/weekend - I called it. I have not taken anything away from that squad. I have spoken highly of them ever since. The investigation has nothing to do with how good they were at that point, it has to do with systemic and ongoing conduct by the coaching staff and probably those above Semling. Keep in mind in the NCAA of this key thing: everyone gets in trouble if rules are broken. It doesn't rule up hill and stop at the highest target. Everyone gets in trouble. The coach is expected to keep his/her program in compliance. Those in compliance are expected to help with that. Bosses like the Athletics Director are expected to keep the program in compliance. No one is going to escape punishment, I hope, but again we have to wait for the report to truly know what happened behind the scene.

Oh and stop with the "they weren't on anyone's radar at the beginning of the season" stuff. They were preseason ranked #7 and they NEVER fell out of the Top 25 the entire season. They weren't flying under anyone's radar. I happened to not vote for them until mid-January, but that doesn't mean I didn't know about them. And clearly the voters did. They weren't flying under anyone's radar.

Not following the question. As it pertains to UWSP and reasons to vacate wins? Or any situation and thus like TMC's?

I'm just wondering if you know of an instance where a team has had to vacate wins for some reason other than using an ineligible player.

Off the top of my head, I do not know. However, I think it has happened. I will have to do some research.

Dave,

This discussion is why I am looking forward to your follow-up to your extremely well done interview with Brad Duckworth.

[fredfalcon]

WW 42-35  over Lax. Jones with 20. EC over Osh 30-28. Witchow has 15, Weix 16. Both half time scores.

[Greek Tragedy]

Oshkosh hit 17 of 29 3s for the 79-66 win.

ShineTime U holds off La Crosse 67-62.

[AppletonRocks]

Oshkosh spread those 3's around too...Wittchow, Jansen, Boots, Dwyer, Vlotho and Noone all made at least 1. Wittchow had 6, Noone 4, Jansen 3 and Boots 2.    The knives might be getting sharp for the second half of the WIAC season. 

Plus, a rarity for 2017---a home victory at Kolf.   

[fredfalcon]

After leading by 26 with about 8 minutes left, UWRF beats SP 67-51. Herink had 17, Witt, Seifert had 10. Bublitz had 11, the only one in double figures for Point. RF shot 52%, SP 32%