MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[John Gleich]

By the way, one of the assistant coaches for Lacrosse is named Bonnett, but he looks an awful lot like a Bennett. Is this some clever attempt to hide the true identity of a ringer as an assistant coach?

...Interestingly, Bonnett used to be an assistant at Point as well, before heading to La Crosse and Coach Koelbl.

[John Gleich]

I don't know if this has happened at Point, but let's say the women's team goes into a double overtime game, the men's team could therotically start at the time slot. So if the Point broadcasters were to do only the men's game, they can still go at the 5pm time like they were scheduled to do.

Second game is always 30 mins after the first one ends.  We actually had plenty of times where we had to wait when I was playing.

From a players standpoint, doubleheaders are terrible.  First, you've got to share the bus with the other team.  Don't get me wrong.  We like them, they're great, hang out with them all the time... but when you double the number of people on a bus, you're not as comfortable as you could be otherwise.  We had 11 guys 6'5" or taller on Point's team.  You can't comfortably go two-to-a-seat. 

Then you've got to either wait around for 3+ hours before the game (tough to get focused AND it cuts down on the amount of time on the floor warming up before the game ** this aspect is huge... one of the great advantages of playing at Point with the separate gyms... we didn't have to wait!) OR 3+ hours after the game waiting for the other team.  And if one of the teams loses... let's just say that the atmosphere on the bus ride home isn't what it would have been otherwise.

Finally, I'm not a huge fan of the earlier starts, either.  I understand wanting to be able to get teams home (especially for certain long distance games) but Saturday night WIAC games used to be an event... it's what you did.  Now it's during the afternoon or dinnertime... people have to make a decision. 

[John Gleich]

BTW, re last night's game... didn't get to see or hear it, but Point needs someone to be the go-to guy (or to get a couple of go-to guys).  A lot of times that's a post player who can either get a bucket or get fouled...  Yes, Point's got a lot of good outside shooters, but on a night where you only make three 3's (and two of them were in the last 10 minutes), you've got to have something else to go to. 

Teams are going to have to try to find a way into Oshkosh's bench.  Marsh played 38 mins, Johnson 36, Seckar-Anderson 36, Miller 38.  Schrimpf, Johnsen, (L) Miller, and Borgardt combined for 42 minutes and just 8 points.

[stoutguy]

I just think there is still something to be said for one team being the show.  Prime time and people in the gym who are excited to watch their favorite team.  I think both men and women lose some of that excitement with the doubleheader concept.  I really enjoy watching both the men and the women but would much rather enjoy them one at a time.  Not to pick on WW because they win at everything all the time now, but just a few years ago I felt bad for the women's team as they had to watch this exodus of fans as they were warming up.  Badgerwarhawk, do I exagarate?

[Greek Tragedy]

Teams are going to have to try to find a way into Oshkosh's bench.  Marsh played 38 mins, Johnson 36, Seckar-Anderson 36, Miller 38.  Schrimpf, Johnsen, (L) Miller, and Borgardt combined for 42 minutes and just 8 points.

When Beamish got his 2nd in the first half with 8 minutes to play, he sat the rest of the half.  Jordan Johnson had two fouls in the first and he continued to play while DSA got his 3rd with 15 to play in the 2nd half and continued to play.

Maybe it's a case that we have a strong bench and Oshkosh has no choice to play those guys in "foul trouble".  I know Semling made a big deal about Beamish picking up his 2nd, sitting the rest of the half and that's when Oshkosh went on their run.  I know he felt that Beamish was the X-factor and he was the biggest mismatch for Oshkosh.  If that was the case, maybe have a little more confidence that Beamish won't get his 3rd foul or risk it because he's the difference maker.  Being down by 1 when he gets his 2nd and then sitting him the rest of the half while you lose another 10 points may have "saved" him from foul trouble, didn't help the team.  Beamish ended up getting just one more foul the rest of the game. 

Obviously I'm not a coach, but maybe you gotta gamble a little more in the future.

[Greek Tragedy]

Stoutguy, you make a good point (one team, one big show), but I would guess it helps the attendence at women's games (in general, men's games draw better) if the men's games are also played the same day.  If the women's games are scheduled after the men's games, yeah, there may be a mass exodus, but then again, there could be a few dozen fans that say, "what the heck, let's stick around," that normally wouldn't even be there had it not been for the men's games.

Sure, it's enjoyable to watch the men's and women's games separately, but if they got rid of the doubleheaders, I'm assuming it'd be like weekday games when Point men are at Stout when the Stout women are at Point, thus basically losing a game to watch every Saturday.  I honestly don't think I'd make the trip to Menomonie on the weekend if only one team was playing that day, especially if it was a 7 pm game, meaning I'd be getting home at 11:30 or later.

[stoutguy]

Teams are going to have to try to find a way into Oshkosh's bench.  Marsh played 38 mins, Johnson 36, Seckar-Anderson 36, Miller 38.  Schrimpf, Johnsen, (L) Miller, and Borgardt combined for 42 minutes and just 8 points.

When Beamish got his 2nd in the first half with 8 minutes to play, he sat the rest of the half.  Jordan Johnson had two fouls in the first and he continued to play while DSA got his 3rd with 15 to play in the 2nd half and continued to play.

Maybe it's a case that we have a strong bench and Oshkosh has no choice to play those guys in "foul trouble".  I know Semling made a big deal about Beamish picking up his 2nd, sitting the rest of the half and that's when Oshkosh went on their run.  I know he felt that Beamish was the X-factor and he was the biggest mismatch for Oshkosh.  If that was the case, maybe have a little more confidence that Beamish won't get his 3rd foul or risk it because he's the difference maker.  Being down by 1 when he gets his 2nd and then sitting him the rest of the half while you lose another 10 points may have "saved" him from foul trouble, didn't help the team.  Beamish ended up getting just one more foul the rest of the game. 

Obviously I'm not a coach, but maybe you gotta gamble a little more in the future.

You should be a coach, OS, because you make a great point.  I obviously, did not see your game but one of my biggest frustrations is coaches who have this "rule" about coming out when in foul trouble.  How about giving some kids credit for commen sense, or sometimes just understanding that you can not afford to have certain players sit on the bench as the game slips away.  Games are lost early as well as late.  

[bulk19]

From a UWEC perspective on DHs:

I don't like them.

The Blugold women have been outdrawing the men over the last few seasons, due to the success they have had since the 1990s and on into this decade... (Quite the turnaround from the early 1980s, when you had to get to Zorn an hour ahead of time to get a seat for the men's games, and the women's games? Well, I think more people showed up to watch intramurals...)

That being said, the women - who have put out a better brand of basketball, at least as far as Ws go - have been scheduled first for the DHs in EC, making me pay that extra $2 to see the men play after, since I get charged for both games, whether I stay or not... I'm cheap. Ha.

I'd rather watch them on separate nights, but that's just me... (So I guess they get $12 from me for two games, rather than $8 on the DHs... So much for being cheap on my part.  )

I did a bit of research on the women's team, who, despite being fairly successful since the concept was implemented, were having trouble on the road. It seemed a lot of the games they lost on the road were part of the scheduled DHs.... 

[bulk19]

Old School -

I enjoy your take on the conference, and the Pointers, in particular, since I have dual citizenship as a Blugold grad, and am one who also attended UWSP for post-graduate classes. Got to see the three fabulous Pointer championship teams in action during those terrific seasons, when Quandt and the Berg were rocking... TVD mentioned in the paper today how the crowd in Point is an intelligent one, and really can cause problems for opposing teams coming in...

That being said, regarding your latest rankings, with Point at 4 and UWEC at 5: Blugolds in your rearview mirror are closer than you think.  Ha. Let's hope they can find some of the luck and success that the Blugold football team had this season, so they can shake things up in what is going to be another fun and wild season in the WIAC hoops race...

(I'll jump back onto the Pointer bandwagon at the end of the season for postseason play. Ha.)

[Mr. Downtown]

Downtown,

We do travel with the team but imagine the joy of being on the bus when one team wins, the other gets beat.  That mix is no fun for anyone.  And I repeat, money is not being saved by doubleheaders.  How about this example: Stout stays overnight with both teams in Oshkosh because it is mandated that we travel together.

We didn't travel with the team, but i see your point. I didn't think about you guys staying over in Oshkosh the night before, I bet that was expensive for the school.

Oldschool, you made a very good point. It wasn't a tongue in cheek comment, I was being sincere.

[phoenix_rising]

You want to bring 20 players and 6 assistant coaches? Fine, but you're still getting the same number of seats!

And by that thinking (I don't disagree with it), the coaches and assistants should be the ones sitting stacked on top of each other; they made the decision on roster size. Besides, most of those coaches are scrubby little people and they don't really need as much room

[Greek Tragedy]

From a UWEC perspective on DHs:

I don't like them.

I'd rather watch them on separate nights, but that's just me... (So I guess they get $12 from me for two games, rather than $8 on the DHs... So much for being cheap on my part.  )

The point is, if there aren't doubleheaders, the men and women will be playing at opposite locations against the same team on the same day (just like weekdays)...losing a game to watch each week. 

[cubs]

Also, when Pam Ruder was still coaching in Oshkosh, the women's and men's teams took seperate bus's.

You may want to double-check your sources on that one......  I asked about that, and I was told that UWO had wanted to do that, but they were not allowed to by the WIAC due to the fact that it would be unfair because some schools could afford it, while others couldn't.

[Cody-1-Kastern]

About Doubleheaders....

As a player I hated double headers.  For the same reason Jake Bennett did, the 4 hour wait.  Also, double headers cut your warmup time drastically.  If there is no double header, players can warmup up as early as possible. The traveling team usually gets to the gym 2 hours before tip off which gives players time to warmup and get treatment. If it's a double header, you only get your standard 30 minutes of warmup time after the women's game. 

Also, I'm 6'7" and I didn't like sharing seats, even if it was with the best looking gal on the squad (like my boy Greg Polkowski does).  Another thing that was always a controversy was what to watch.  The guys team wanted to watch game tape of the team they were about to play.  While the girls team usually wanted to watch a chick-flick tear-jerker like "10 Things I hate About You" or "Love & Basketball".  And then the argument  on where to eat after the game......

However, when a team like Superior plays @ Oshkosh, Plattville, or Whitewater, it is the right thing to do financially.......but I still don't like it.

My boy Jake Smith will be First-team All-Conference as a Freshman.

[phoenix_rising]

At least at one home game this year that was NOT a doubleheader, the Superior men's basketball team showed up to watch the women's team play. They were very vocal, very animated, and at one point the rowdies that always sit at one end of the short bleachers moved down to sit with the team, and the whole group partcipated in a pretty entertaining cheer.

I think coaches do a disservice to the other team when they don't require their teams to attend at least a half (as in first or second half) of their counterparts' games, when possible. I'm pretty certain the Superior women's team got a boost out of the men's support, and the rest of the crowd got a kick out of the men's team's participation.

I wouldn't be surprised if Buchanan didn't require the men to go to the game(s); if he's practicing and instilling discipline, it's not a bad idea.

There's nothing wrong with showing some respect for the other team; as a matter of fact, in the case where a team loses, there might be a sense that at least the other team was there and showing support. That goes a long way to making road trips together easier to take. Having the other team not be there may add insult to injury.

Having said all that and having read the Kastern post before I finish this, I understand the issue of practice time, eating, and I certainly can commiserate with the movie thing. That wasn't a problem with my insider on her team; she slept both ways.

And about height: those seats in public transportation--bus, plane, whatever--are built for people 5'7" and smaller; those of us over 5'7" are chewing on our knees, too.