MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[badgerwarhawk]

Carthage won't schedule us because were public schools and we're large.  Their president knows what is best for DIII and we are not it.   Perhaps we should stop scheduling them in our multi-team events.  Let them fill those schedules someplace else.  But, then again, that would be just as elitist as they have been.    

Greg, I got Tom's link to work (just linked to again today) and saw the game scheduled.  I assume it falls under the heading of a multi-team event and that the scheduling was done by St Norbert.  St Scholastica is the fourth team and, as would be expected, St Norbert scheduled them for themselves in the first round.

As far as the CCIW and the WIAC goes there are good programs who have been willing to schedule us and it appears to me that it's getting more frequent.  That's a good thing for both leagues.  If Carthage doesn't want to be a part of that so be it.  

[UWP SID]

PaBegg,

You cracked our "top-secret" code. I thought for sure nobody would figure to replace 0708 with 0809 for a new schedule.    (Aren't you glad I don't work for a government agency?) Seriously the Pioneer schedule is not finalized yet, as a couple of contracts need to be signed, and we don't have all our in-season tournament pairings set yet (and I just guessed at the St. Norbert pairings, but those are the four teams in it). That's why there was no live link to it. As soon as everything gets finalized, the schedule will be posted.

[Mr. Downtown]

Carthage won't schedule us because were public schools and we're large.  Their president knows what is best for DIII and we are not it.   

If a lot people think that, then where in the world does the WIAC go?

BW, you brought up a great point in which the WIAC shouldn't bother going to multi-team tournaments in which schools like Carthage already state that they won't play WIAC schools during the regular season (which doesn't that spell out that Platteville will be playing St. Norbert's and Scholastica?) . Playing a tough non-conference game in December will not spell out the rest of the season (see: Oshkosh - 2007/08), good or bad. In my mind, a loss won't hurt that much but a win would go far especially in February when the committee looks over your overall body of work.

[Greek Tragedy]

As said, Carthage doesn't have any say on who they play in someone else's tourney.  I guess, if they wanted to, they could ask who else is in it and then decline once they hear they have to play a WIAC school.  Oh well.  It doesn't bother me at all. 

I'm sure any tourney that Carthage hosts would not include a WIAC team.  No big deal.  I'm sure there are more teams than we know that purposely don't schedule big public schools like the WIAC. 

I really don't understand it, but whatever.  It's not like the WIAC is winning every championship in every sport. 

I think everyone should stop scheduling Williams since they've won the Sears trophy or whatever for 10 years running!  Damn those stupid small private colleges! lol...

I find it ironic that in the state of Wisconsin, all the small private high schools seem to always win the state tournaments over their bigger public school foes!  So it goes.

PaBegg,

You cracked our "top-secret" code. I thought for sure nobody would figure to replace 0708 with 0809 for a new schedule.   (Aren't you glad I don't work for a government agency?) Seriously the Pioneer schedule is not finalized yet, as a couple of contracts need to be signed, and we don't have all our in-season tournament pairings set yet (and I just guessed at the St. Norbert pairings, but those are the four teams in it). That's why there was no live link to it. As soon as everything gets finalized, the schedule will be posted.

That's pretty funny!  I've actually done that on ocassion trying to find schedules or links using previous year's links. 

[Gregory Sager]

IMO everyone, except you I guess, knows PointSpecial and Just Bill, were referring to playing WIAC schools with their comments about Carthage, not Wisconsin schools in general.  But, +k for the effort splitting hairs.

I'm not splitting hairs. He said "Wisconsin schools", not "WIAC schools". The schools that I named are Wisconsin schools. That seems pretty straightforward to me.

It's perfectly conceivable that a school president could also tell his coaches not to schedule another local school or schools besides the in-state public schools. That's why the distinction between "Wisconsin schools" in general and "WIAC schools" specifically needed to be pointed out. But as far as I know the ban at Carthage only applies to WIAC schools.

Silver Lake? Seriously, you are using SILVER LAKE as your defense!

"Defense"? I'm not defending anything. It's not my job to defend Carthage. Again, all I did was identify the Wisconsin schools that various Carthage athletic teams have played this year and will play next year. And Silver Lake is a Wisconsin school.

As for the quality of those Wisconsin opponents ... well, let's just say that Bosko likes his cupcakes. Bosko could probably sit his kid on the bench and have the Djurickovic family dog suit up in his stead, and the Red Men would still beat Silver Lake by twenty.

Carthage won't schedule us because were public schools and we're large.  Their president knows what is best for DIII and we are not it.   Perhaps we should stop scheduling them in our multi-team events.  Let them fill those schedules someplace else.  But, then again, that would be just as elitist as they have been.

Greg, I got Tom's link to work (just linked to again today) and saw the game scheduled.  I assume it falls under the heading of a multi-team event and that the scheduling was done by St Norbert.  St Scholastica is the fourth team and, as would be expected, St Norbert scheduled them for themselves in the first round.

As far as the CCIW and the WIAC goes there are good programs who have been willing to schedule us and it appears to me that it's getting more frequent.  That's a good thing for both leagues.  If Carthage doesn't want to be a part of that so be it.

Personally, I agree with you, BW. I'm an advocate of more CCIW vs. WIAC contests, and I've said that more than once on Posting Up. In fact, I'd love to see NPU start to play more WIAC teams in various sports. Anyone who thought that I was defending Carthage's policy was mistaken. I was simply reiterating what Bill had already said. But President Campbell has to do what he thinks is best for Carthage, and since I'm neither a Carthage fan nor a Carthage alumnus it's ultimately no skin off my nose if he elects to tell his athletic department that contests against WIAC teams are verboten. However, I will say on his behalf that, as the president of the only CCIW school located in Wisconsin, he's in a different boat than the presidents of his seven sister schools down here in FIB Land.

it is what it is. If you folks want a real rebuttal, you should go onto CCIW Chat and invite a discussion on this topic with an actual Carthage poster. As I said, I'm not carrying their water.

Carthage won't schedule us because were public schools and we're large.  Their president knows what is best for DIII and we are not it.   

If a lot people think that, then where in the world does the WIAC go?

I don't know if there are other D3 schools that operate under that anti-WIAC edict. There might be, but Carthage is the only one of which I'm aware.

BW, you brought up a great point in which the WIAC shouldn't bother going to multi-team tournaments in which schools like Carthage already state that they won't play WIAC schools during the regular season (which doesn't that spell out that Platteville will be playing St. Norbert's and Scholastica?)

No, because as Bill, Tom, and I have all said, a) St. Norbert head coach Gary Grzesk handles the scheduling of the Nicolet Bank tourney, not any of his three coaching rivals from Carthage, UWP, or St. Scholastica; and b) Carthage's don't-schedule-WIAC-opponents policy does not apply to neutral-site tournaments over which Carthage coaches have no scheduling control, and this scenario describes the Nicolet Bank tourney.

[chmarx]

Not much we can do about any of this.  Well, we could end interscholastic sports at WIAC schools...

[badgerwarhawk]

I find it ironic that in the state of Wisconsin, all the small private high schools seem to always win the state tournaments over their bigger public school foes!  So it goes.





It  really depends on what sport you are talking about.  The small privates are doing pretty well in the lower levels but the aren't really beating large public schools.

In 2007-08 WIAA state tournament play:

Football: Privates won division three and five of seven. 
Boys basketball: Privates won division three and publics won the other three divisions.
Girl's basketball: Privates failed to win any of the four divisions contested.
Softball: Privates won divison 4, publics won the rest
Baseball: Privates won division 4, publics won the rest
Girl's Soccer: Privates failed to win any of the four divisions contested.
Boy's Soccer: Privates won D2 and 3, a public school won D1.  This was their best showing in state tournament competition.
Volleyball: Privates won D2 and 4, publics won d1 and d3.

The privates failed to win a single D1 state tournament championship and only won the D2 championship in two of the more prominent sports.  They're doing decently in the lower divisions particularly those smaller privates from larger communities.  But small privates are not dominating large publics.

This is a common misperception and if you look at previous years you will find a similar pattern as well. 

[John Gleich]

Geez... didn't realize my intentionally inaccurate, tongue in cheek comment would incite all that!

... though "Wisconsin schools" could be the subsets of college teams from the state of Wisconsin with the word "Wisconsin" in their names...  'Course any games against Wisconsin Lutheran would knock that out of the ballpark quicker than quick...

But, though this has gone on much, much farther than I ever imaged it would, here's something pretty interesting regarding divisional "qualifications" as it were...

This is a very interesting read about why Grand Valley State has chosen to stay as a D-II University instead of making the leap to D-I.  All of the arguments don't directly correlate to a "We're D-III and we're going to stay that way" discussion, but there are definitely correlations.

Link

[chmarx]

Very good article, PS.  Thanks for the link.

I think it correlates VERY well with the DIII vs. DII question.  We would have to spend MUCH more money to be competitive in DII. 

Besides, my understanding is that part of the merger law requires former WSU schools to not offer athletic scholarships.

[frodotwo]

Pointer recruit did well in the WBCA division 3 tourney. Kieran Weed led his north team in all stat categories.

DIVISION 3
North All-Stars   20   19   17   18   —   74
South-All-Stars   17   28   15   18   —   78

North (fg-fga ft-fta pts) — Mark Schrimpf 2-6 0-0 6, Mitchell Webster 0-3 0-0 0, Mike Nezworski 3-4 0-0 7, Cody Lassila 3-13 1-1 8, Zach Alix 1-4 0-0 2, Keegan Kincaid 2-8 0-0 5, Mitchell Schneider 4-11 1-2 12, Cody Loughrin 3-8 0-0 7, Mike Schaaf 3-5 0-0 6, Kieran Weed 9-16 2-2 21. Totals 30-78 4-5 74.

South — Jake Wiederholt 6-14 4-7 16, Ben Pickel 2-7 3-5 7, Quentin Tranberg 2-3 6-9 10, Craig Szopinski 3-4 0-2 6, Jacob Day 0-1 1-2 1, Matt Paluchniak 0-2 0-1 0, Justin Wilterdink 4-7 0-2 11, Jordan Rumpel 1-5 0-4 2, Jared Bauer 5-10 1-2 13, Mitchell Erickson 5-9 1-3 12. Totals 28-62 16-37 78.

Three-point goals: N 10-31 (Schrimpf 2-5, Nezworski 1-1, Lassila 1-7, Alix 0-1, Kincaid 1-4, Schneider 3-8, Loughrin 1-4, Weed 1-1); S 6-16 (Wiederholt 0-1, Pickel 0-4, Day 0-1, Wilterdink 3-6, Bauer 2-3, Erickson 1-1). Rebounds: N 39 (Weed 8, Nezworski 6, Alix 5); S 51 (Tranberg 8, Bauer 8, Wiederholt 6). Fouls: N 29 (Webster 6, Nezworski 5, Schaaf 5), S 13. Assists: N 17 (Schrimpf 3, Weed 3, Loughrin 3); S 16 (Paluchniak 4). Turnovers: N 13 (Alix 4); S 15 (Paluchniak 4). Blocks: N 2, S 2. Steals: N 10 (Schaaf 2), S 8 (Wiederholt 2).

Not sure who else's recruits played but here's the link to the Milw Journal Sentinel article:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=764732

[Stout survivor]

Has  anyone heard if teams in the WIAC will be cutting down the distance they travel with the rising gas prices.

The thought I have is that we should see RF, EC, and Stout will be playing a lot more teams from the MIAC to cut some of the cost. 

[phoenix_rising]

The thought I have is that we should see RF, EC, and Stout will be playing a lot more teams from the MIAC to cut some of the cost

Schedules are arranged how far in advance? We may also see more double-header games--men's and women's games on the same day/night. One bus trip rather than two. More pressure on booster clubs to help with costs. More sweatshirt sales--I must have a dozen already. Playing teams on rotational schedule, so that you don't play every conference team twice--once at home and once away--but rather home one year, away the next and fill in the spots with closer non-conference teams. Creative scheduling: triangular/quadrangular 'meets' over Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Every weekend a mini-tournament.

Worst case--turning marginal sports into club teams and having them come up with their own transportation. I suspect conference rules will control some of that, but a school with above-the-minimum could pare away.

[Greek Tragedy]

Unfortunately, a combination of my impending move closer to Milwaukee in the fall and the rising gas prices, my attendence at Quandt will be significantly less this year than in years past. 

I can only hope that WLC isn't the only Milwaukee-area team to schedule Stevens Point in the coming years...how about Carthage? lol :-)  I might be able to ride my bike to the game if Point plays at MSOE!

I don't see significant changes, at least in the conference schedule, because of the gas prices.  Most schedules are probably done or being finalized for the coming year, so if we see changes, it won't happen until next season ('09). 

[stoutguy]

Interesting news out of Stout.  Top assistant Lionel Jones has accepted the Menomonie High girls head coaching position.  Lionel was Eddie's main link to the the twin cities kids for years and he will be missed.  A great guy and we wish him well.  Split decision for Eddie as he is losing a great assistant but his daughter (a top player on the hs team) is getting a very good coach. 

[Stout survivor]

Coach Jones is a very good coach and a joy to be around.  I think he will do very good things at MHS.  Any leads on who will take his spot?