All Americans

[Smitty Oom]

I'm not aware of how much those who pick the All-Americans take into account stats along with success of the team when making selections.

It's a good question...and I am not sure how Pat & Co. do it (whether they factor in team results or not).

I'd tend to think that for an All-American team you'd just look at individual performance.  But seems the preseason All-American team was influenced, to some degree, by team stuff.  So, not sure really.

Well in order to be eligible for All-American you must be an All-Region player (I think). Each region has their own voters so some regions could be different but it really looks like historically being on a good team really helps your cause. Even more so, I think the voters could be biased towards Conference awards (MVP specifically) in both region and all american voting. "Duax was the MVP in the WIAC, one of the best conferences in the central, he should definitely be a first teamer" (this is nothing against Duax, but feehan should have been a first teamer last year imo). It seems to be a give and take, balancing in some great statistical players on average teams with good statistical players on great to elite teams.


Assuming that Springfield doesn't make a run at the end of the year here, it will be interesting to see what voters do with him. He is the epitome of this player talent and stats vs team results debate, especially given he was a first teamer last year carrying the Pride to the Final Four.


EDIT: Also, to be 100% transparent, that was me spitballing my personal takes... I know nothing more than most of you and in fact probably less than most of you. Just putting forth what I seem to gather from looking at these awards for 5-6 years now and past couple more in depth.

[D3ball1845]

Coene and Duvivier made the Northeast 3rd and 4th All-Region teams, respectively, in the 2017-2018 season. I would expect them both to be on 1st or 2nd team this season, although I understand that the region is loaded with talent. That, and the fact that Marcos Echevarria of the CCC is also in the mix of things. I'd personally be surprised to see three CCC players make the 1st and 2nd All-Region teams this year. I've already addressed that these three are the top contenders for CCC POY in my rather long post in the CCC thread. But yes, I'd have to agree that there is likely some give and take regarding statistics and team success.

It will be very interesting to see where Jake Ross ends up. A few D3Boards posters picked him as National POY in the preseason All-American thread. As others have already discussed, I think that Aston Francis of Wheaton (Ill.) will win National POY hands down. However, if Ross makes an All-American team again then I really think that Coene of RWU, who has better statistics and is on a team with a slightly better record in a less competitive conference, must be taken into consideration for an All-American selection.

[Greek Tragedy]

Rookie of the year

Ryan Turell - Yeshiva
Anders Nelson - St. Thomas

Anyone else?

[nescac1]

Seems like a two-horse race, Greek Tragedy, with Nelson being the big favorite. 

On the east coast, Chris Childs at St. Joseph Ct. and Logan Bailey at Scranton are two other impressive rookies, but while both have been scorching hot in recent weeks, neither has done enough to leap into the conversation I'd say. 

[ronk]

Seems like a two-horse race, Greek Tragedy, with Nelson being the big favorite. 

On the east coast, Chris Childs at St. Joseph Ct. and Logan Bailey at Scranton are two other impressive rookies, but while both have been scorching hot in recent weeks, neither has done enough to leap into the conversation I'd say.

If there's 1 thing that Logan can do, it's leap. Look for him to be a big factor in the season's final weeks. I agree that he should be part of the conversation.

[NEPAFAN]

There is a nationwide rookie of the year?

[Pat Coleman]

There is a nationwide rookie of the year?

There is.

[Greek Tragedy]

Just a couple names off the top of my head based on fantasy leagues, possible AAs.

Coplin - Augsburg
Carius - Monmouth
Manuel - Olivet

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Rookie of the year

Ryan Turell - Yeshiva
Anders Nelson - St. Thomas

Anyone else?

I started the year with a few other names on the list, but those are the only ones left, in my mind - and probably just the second, right now.  I think it's Anders' to lose at this point.  Turrell is super talented and if Yeshiva goes on a run, he could change things, but Nelson is leading a Top 5 team in a bunch of categories while running the point as a freshman.  It's a pretty impressive resume thus far.

[Smitty Oom]

Rookie of the year

Ryan Turell - Yeshiva
Anders Nelson - St. Thomas

Anyone else?

I started the year with a few other names on the list, but those are the only ones left, in my mind - and probably just the second, right now.  I think it's Anders' to lose at this point.  Turrell is super talented and if Yeshiva goes on a run, he could change things, but Nelson is leading a Top 5 team in a bunch of categories while running the point as a freshman.  It's a pretty impressive resume thus far.

If Ryan is able to vote for someone going up against one of his Macs, I think the race is over! 

Anders Nelson is averaging 15.7pts on very efficient shooting, 48/39.6/85 (just slightly under the 50/40/90 standard elite shooters strive to achieve). All of that to go along with 4.8reb, 4.8ast (2:1 ast:to) and nearly 2 steals a game.

Ryan Turrell is averaging 20.2pts on very efficient shooting, 55/43/79.7. All of that to go with 5reb, 3.3ast, 1 steal and half a block per game.

Both are extremely impressive freshman who are playing PG for their teams and are deserving of the reward. Turrell is averaging more points but Anders is on a better team. Other than that most of their resumes are very similar.

Has there ever been talks about an "all-freshman team" instead of just nominating one? Because it is too bad one of these two will not be nominated (unless you do co-FOY). It wouldn't necessarily need to fill out positions, just choose the 5 most impressive freshman.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Some years it's tough to get to five - at least on a similar level.

[fantastic50]

I don't think there is any drama about the national Player of the Year.  Send the award to Aston Francis now.

What Francis has done is very impressive, in terms of raw scoring numbers, and I cannot argue with him receiving the PotY award.  However, he isn't a phenomenally efficient shooter, as compared to some others who have recently won the award.

His effective field goal percentage (EFG%) is around 54% (618 points on 572 FGA = 1.08 pts/shot = 54% eFG%), which is in line with Monroe's 53% at Cabrini last year, and Flannery's 53% the year prior.  However, Aaron Toomey was at over 59% in 2012-13, Aaron Walton-Moss 61% in his junior season at Cabrini (2013-14), and Guilford's Tyler Sanborn shot a crazy 64% in 2009-10.

[SaintPaulite]

His team is probably better off with him taking a questionable shot than someone else taking an open one.

This is why stats are misleading sometimes, and I say that as a guy that deals with data for a living. Sometimes you gotta use context to understand what the data is really telling you.

I've seen the probably consensus second best player in the country, and having seen the video of Francis against N Central, I have no problem believing he's the best. Put him on Augustana where he's not the sole focus of the defense, and we could probably just forget about the national tournament this year.

I'm wondering if the same applies to Turell, who I haven't seen. Anders has been great, but has had some struggles lately. 3 of his 6 20+ point games were in November. Really good player, but not sure I'd take him over a 6-9 or whatever guy that can legit play guard, and Nelson certainly gets a lot of help. If he shows well in the NCAAs, I think I might think Turell is the best. Hard to know until then though bc of their schedule.

[D3ball1845]

Saint Paulite, just to clarify you are comparing Aston Francis to two players that were being discussed  as potential Rookie of  the Year not Player of the Year. Could Nelson or Turrell be considered as POY candidates in a few years? Most definitely if they continue to grow as players. However, I think we are all trying to get a sense of who could contend with Francis for POY this year. I'm not sure if there is anyone that comes to mind at the moment. I've previously mentioned two other names in this thread just as a comparison and I think it was pretty clear Francis should come out on top.

[SaintPaulite]

Saint Paulite, just to clarify you are comparing Aston Francis to two players that were being discussed  as potential Rookie of  the Year not Player of the Year. Could Nelson or Turrell be considered as POY candidates in a few years? Most definitely if they continue to grow as players. However, I think we are all trying to get a sense of who could contend with Francis for POY this year. I'm not sure if there is anyone that comes to mind at the moment. I've previously mentioned two other names in this thread just as a comparison and I think it was pretty clear Francis should come out on top.

Let me be clear:
I was working from fantastic50's efficiency numbers and
1. that Francis may be inefficient because it's best for his team for him to aggressively hunt shots
2. Turell vs. Nelson might be a similar story wrt what good numbers on a very good team means vs. great numbers on a not as good team to...well, whoever you think has that argument on Francis (Schimonitz? Butler? Ebel? whoever)

We see in the Chicago and N Central (1st) boxes what happens for Wheaton when Francis doesn't get shots up: not very much. Scored 60 and 59.

They've won a lot more games from him shooting a lot than they've lost because of him shooting a lot.