All Americans

[Hugenerd]

Doesn't it all depend on who gets nominated for all-region teams first?

Yeah, you have to be on the All-Region team to be selected All-American, but I think those three are pretty safe bets to make their respective teams.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Doesn't it all depend on who gets nominated for all-region teams first?

Yeah, you have to be on the All-Region team to be selected All-American, but I think those three are pretty safe bets to make their respective teams.

There are going to be some guards left off the first team in the Midwest.  I think that will limit who makes first team all american.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Now that we have All-Region teams, we can begin serious discussion about who will be unveiled on the All-American team this weekend.

I don't know if they force players into the traditional 2-2-1 formation, but I think we have to go with three guards this year:

G - Kent Raymond
G - Jimmy Bartolotta
G - Sean Burton
F - Jesse Reimink
C - Jeff Skemp

(Jean-Baptist for Burton, if they go with two forwards, instead)

2nd Team:

G - Myles McKay
G - Rashawn Johnson
F - Richard Jean-Baptiste
F - Brent Ruch
C - Tyler Sanborn

(I'll admit, that second team is just grasping at straws, for the most part).

[magicman]

Now that we have All-Region teams, we can begin serious discussion about who will be unveiled on the All-American team this weekend.

I don't know if they force players into the traditional 2-2-1 formation, but I think we have to go with three guards this year:

G - Kent Raymond
G - Jimmy Bartolotta
G - Sean Burton
F - Jesse Reimink
C - Jeff Skemp

(Jean-Baptist for Burton, if they go with two forwards, instead)

2nd Team:

G - Myles McKay
G - Rashawn Johnson
F - Richard Jean-Baptiste
F - Brent Ruch
C - Tyler Sanborn

(I'll admit, that second team is just grasping at straws, for the most part).

Last year's 1st Team All Americans were 3 guards, Andrew Olsen, Kent Raymond, and James Cooper, 1 forward Troy Ruths and center Ben Strong. So it would seem they don't necessarily have to be the 2-2-1 format. Quite a few of this year's All Region teams also don't follow the 2-2-1 format, most notably the Midwest All Region team with 3 guards.

Can't argue with anyone on your list, and fortunately their are 4 AA teams and honorable mention picks so another 15 players will get honored. Hard to leave Aaron Thompson and Steve Djurickovic off just to name a couple more.

[sludge]

Now that we have All-Region teams, we can begin serious discussion about who will be unveiled on the All-American team this weekend.

I don't know if they force players into the traditional 2-2-1 formation, but I think we have to go with three guards this year:

G - Kent Raymond
G - Jimmy Bartolotta
G - Sean Burton
F - Jesse Reimink
C - Jeff Skemp

(Jean-Baptist for Burton, if they go with two forwards, instead)

2nd Team:

G - Myles McKay
G - Rashawn Johnson
F - Richard Jean-Baptiste
F - Brent Ruch
C - Tyler Sanborn

(I'll admit, that second team is just grasping at straws, for the most part).

A fine list, but you'd have to switch Sanborn and Skemp around to get any accuracy.  ;-)

[fcnews]

I hope this is an appropriate location for this. I would like to address this to the AA voters. For consideration a player from one of the smaller conferences, that may be overlooked. I guess this is like stumping for your candidate.

Brian Fogerty – Fontbonne University, Senior, Forward
Conference- SLIAC

'08-'09 stats
27 games -  19.8 ppg., 10.6 rpg., 58.6% FG and 74.3% FT
19 double-doubles
11 games 20 (or more) pts. and 10 (or more) rebounds.

SLIAC All-Conference – ( 3 ) '07 1st Team, '08 1st Team and '09 1st Team
SLIAC Player of the Year – ( 2 ) '08 and '09
SLIAC Scoring Leader – ( 2 ) '08 and '09
D3Hoops All Region Midwest – ( 2 ) '08 3rd Team and '09 1st Team ( only forward on 1st team )
* NABC All District Midwest  – (2) '08 2nd Team and '09
* DIII News Pre Season AA – (2) '08 and '09

Fontbonne Career Scoring Record 1758 pts. First Griffin with 1500 pts and 750 rebs.
Fourth on the All Time SLIAC scoring list

Brian has been one of the keys to Fontbonne's 3 straight trips to the NCAA Tournament. Last year they became the first team in conference history to win back to back AQ's.

Has averaged almost 20 pts. on a team that features three other players averaging in mid double figures.  This season his rebounds per game are even more impressive, considering one of his teammates was a two time conference leader and this year the other player average over 9 per game.

Key games @ Wash U. 20 pts. and 9 rebounds
                   SLIAC Conference Championship game vs. Westminster (19-5)  24 pts. and 14 reb
                   SLIAC Conference Tourney Championship game vs. Westminster (20-6) 26 and 10             
                   @ Wheaton NCAA 1st rd. 16 points and 10 rebounds.


I think it is definately worth the voters time to take a look at this young man, for a spot somewhere on an AA list.

(* I know we have discussed the validity of these.)



Thanks for the use of this space.

[Pat Coleman]

Key games @ Wash U. 20 pts. and 9 rebounds
                   @ Wheaton NCAA 1st rd. 16 points and 10 rebounds.

These two lines are really important to us.

[Hugenerd]

NABC all-region teams were released today:

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nabc/genrel/auto_pdf/D3all-district.pdf

[CCIWchamps]

Wow. No offense to Mr. MIT but the D3 Player of the Year is Kent Raymond.  No question in my mind.  If he plays in MIT's league he'd put up even better numbers than he put up in the much harder CCIW.  Way to go fellas. 

[Hugenerd]

Wow. No offense to Mr. MIT but the D3 Player of the Year is Kent Raymond.  No question in my mind.  If he plays in MIT's league he'd put up even better numbers than he put up in the much harder CCIW.  Way to go fellas. 

Have you every seen Bartolotta play?  In other words, are making an actual intelligent comment based on some kind of research or observation, or are you just talking out of your you know what?  I have seen Raymond play at least 3 times via stream this season and my opinion is that there is not much of a difference between the two in terms of basketball skill.  I also never said Raymond doesnt deserve the award, he was a great player on a great team, but when you look at what Bartolotta did for MIT, you cant really ignore that either.

Your argument can go both ways by the way.  If Bartolotta played with an All-American center, he probably wouldnt be double and triple teamed every time he took a dribble, so he might put up better numbers. 

With all that said, I have no idea who won the award because I was travelling all day and didnt get a chance to listen to the broadcast, but whoever won I am sure they were deserving.  All I was trying to say was that I didnt think it was a one horse race, I was simply stating that he should be considered.  If Raymond won, I feel that he deserved it (and the same can be said for Bartolotta).

[Hugenerd]

Congratulations to the CCIW players on the D3hoops.com 2008-09 All-American team...

1st Team
Kent Raymond, Wheaton (Sr)

2nd Team
Brent Ruch, Elmhurst (Sr)

3rd Team
Steve Djurickovic, Carthage (So)


The complete 1st Team...

G Kent Raymond, Wheaton
G Jimmy Bartolatta, M.I.T.
G Aaron Thompson, Wash U
F Jesse Reimink, Hope
C Jeff Skemp, UW-Platteville

The D3hoops.com Player of the Year is M.I.T. guard Jimmy Bartolatta. 

(Full teams will be posted later.)

Well I did some more research, and I am glad someone besides myself feels that a national POY can come from a non-BCS conference (or the d3 equivalent).

[CCIWchamps]

Wow. No offense to Mr. MIT but the D3 Player of the Year is Kent Raymond.  No question in my mind.  If he plays in MIT's league he'd put up even better numbers than he put up in the much harder CCIW.  Way to go fellas. 

Have you every seen Bartolotta play?  In other words, are making an actual intelligent comment based on some kind of research or observation, or are you just talking out of your you know what?  I have seen Raymond play at least 3 times via stream this season and my opinion is that there is not much of a difference between the two in terms of basketball skill.  I also never said Raymond doesnt deserve the award, he was a great player on a great team, but when you look at what Bartolotta did for MIT, you cant really ignore that either.

Your argument can go both ways by the way.  If Bartolotta played with an All-American center, he probably wouldnt be double and triple teamed every time he took a dribble, so he might put up better numbers. 

With all that said, I have no idea who won the award because I was travelling all day and didnt get a chance to listen to the broadcast, but whoever won I am sure they were deserving.  All I was trying to say was that I didnt think it was a one horse race, I was simply stating that he should be considered.  If Raymond won, I feel that he deserved it (and the same can be said for Bartolotta).

Nope, I haven't seen him play. 
And I also haven't seen MIT ranked in the top 25.
And Kent doesn't have an All-American center on his team according to the latest votes.
Bartolotta may not play with one, but he doesn't face All-Americans either in the powerhouse NEWMAC.  "...but when you look at what Bartolotta did for MIT, you cant really ignore that either."   MIT went 8-4 in conference.  Teams in that conference finished 10-16, 12-13, 13-14, 15-13, and 14-12. 
Let Kent a) play 37 minutes a night like Bartolla did and b) double and triple teams from the Babson Beavers and I think you'd notice even better numbers than those he finished with in the CCIW.

To summarize: both are good players.  One plays on a better team.  In a better conference.  With a better record.  With better opponents.  With better rankings.  When it comes down to it, it's like comparing apples and oranges when you compare the factors that separate the worlds of Wheaton and MIT.  With better teammates, maybe Bartolotta plays less minutes and gets less stats and actually makes his teammates worthy of being discussed as All-Americans.  As it is, he plays an easier schedule and more minutes to get the few stats better that he has compared to Raymond's.
All I have access to for my research and numbers are box scores and stat sheets.

[CCIWchamps]

Congratulations to the CCIW players on the D3hoops.com 2008-09 All-American team...

1st Team
Kent Raymond, Wheaton (Sr)

2nd Team
Brent Ruch, Elmhurst (Sr)

3rd Team
Steve Djurickovic, Carthage (So)


The complete 1st Team...

G Kent Raymond, Wheaton
G Jimmy Bartolatta, M.I.T.
G Aaron Thompson, Wash U
F Jesse Reimink, Hope
C Jeff Skemp, UW-Platteville

The D3hoops.com Player of the Year is M.I.T. guard Jimmy Bartolatta. 

(Full teams will be posted later.)

Well I did some more research, and I am glad someone besides myself feels that a national POY can come from a non-BCS conference (or the d3 equivalent).

Not as a personal slight, but it's ironic that even your research came via a "d3 equivalent of a BCS conference."  In other words, that you had to go to the CCIW board to find out what you just posted.

[BUBeaverFan]

Congrats to all of the All-American's!  Great job AT!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Probably foolishly, I will add a third CCIW-partisan voice to the discussion!

CCIWchamps, I've got no qualms about Jimmy Bartolotta winning the POY - his numbers are just unbelievable.  I thought Kent would win it (his numbers are pretty unbelievable too!), partly because of Troy Ruths.  To explain: in 2007, Ben Strong was national POY (Ruths was HM AA)); in 2008, Troy's team won it all, while Ben's team flamed out in the first round  - IMO Ben was the better player, but Troy took POY.  I concluded that, although an individual award, team success had a great component.

Hugenerd, CCIWchamps does have some valid arguments.  Without Jimmy, MIT would not have even made the tourney, but the same can be said about Kent.  When he got injured, Wheaton was undefeated and #1.  While he was out (plus his first, clearly subpar, game back), they were 1-3.  Without Batolotta, MIT was perhaps not even a top 100 team, but even with him they were not top 25.  With Raymond, Wheaton was a definite title contender, without him they were not top 25, perhaps not even top 40.

Actually, with the team success criterion, I though Aaron Thompson might slip by both of them!