All Americans

[chairman]

Greg-

Can you give your five?

[usee]

Charles Barkley and Dwayne Wade may be in his five? 

[Gregory Sager]

Greg-

Can you give your five?

Well, let me start off by saying that there's a lot of D3 stars that I wish I had seen, but never did: Pete Metzelaars, Ron Stewart, Leroy Witherspoon, Shannon Lilly, Bill Bessoir, Dick Hempy, Greg Grant, Scott Tedder, Lamont Strothers, T.J. Van Wie, Merrill Brunson, Dave Jannuzzi, Devean George, Horace Jenkins, Andy Panko, and Jeff Gibbs being the guys who immediately come to mind. If I had seen these guys, my list might've been different. Then again, it might not have been different at all.

The greatest D3 player I ever saw was Michael Harper, hands down. After that, I'd say that there's a pool that consists of Derrick Rowland, Michael Thomas, Modzel Greer, Blaise Bugajski, Justyne Monegain, Wayne Dunning, Steve Iannarino, Dana Janssen, Michael Starks, Michael Barach, Kermit Sharp, Robert Brown, Chris Fite, Steve Honderd, Bryan Crabtree, Korey Coon, Derek Reich, Richard Melzer, and Kent Raymond. I won't rank them, but Raymond's definitely in the upper half of that crew, in fact probably in the top third of it as well. So perhaps I should've said "top ten" instead of "top five".

There's a ton of amazing players I've seen who're not on that list -- Tiny Green, Steve Keenan, Max Artis, Tony Jordan, Mark Linde, Andre McKoy, Rosey Bullock, Brendan Mitchell, Lou Stevens, Jeff Kuehl, Brad Baldridge, Ricky Spicer, Wade Gugino, Eric Elliott, Charles Woods, Kirk Anderson, Chris Simich, Aaron Winkle, Jason Wiertel, Antoine McDaniel, Jeremy Veenstra, Ryan Knuppel, Chris Jeffries, Drew Carstens, Seth Hauben, Joel Kolmodin, Travis Dupree, Jason Kalsow, Nick Bennett, Keelan Amelianovich, Adam Dauksas, Chris Martin, Larry Welton, Troy Ruths, Nate Hainje, and Steve Djurickovic among them -- whom I'd put just a slot or two below those guys. What's frightening is that Djurickovic is on that list, and he still has two years left in his career. The overall body of work that Sean Wallis has put up in the games in which I've seen him play don't warrant his inclusion on this list, but if he comes back next season and plays like he did in the Wheaton sectional he'll definitely be on here as well.

Then there's guys whom I only saw once or maybe twice -- players such as Brian Agler, Ed Jachim, Jason Qua, Dale Turnquist, Ty Evans, Duane Bosma, Joel Holstege, Tim Dworak, Bryan Nelson, Doug Espenson, and Jesse Reimink -- who didn't wow me but whom I realize are much better than the impression that they left upon me. Basketball's the kind of game where you can see a superstar once on what turns out to be a rare off-night and be left with the impression that he's not a superstar at all. That's why it's important not to take too narrow a view of a player whom you only see play once if his credentials are either much better or much worse than that single game's worth of impressions.

This is all just my deeply subjective take, of course.

[sac]

Greg just listed 83 players..........I challenge people to try and remember 83 players from their own school they can remember.

wow!

[Gregory Sager]

... and yet the other day it took me five minutes to remember where I'd left my glasses.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yet he left out 1st-team AA Zach Freeman.  Deliberate, or does you mind not quite reach 84?

[Gregory Sager]

Deliberate. There's lots of excellent players that I've left off the list, Freeman being one of them. He just doesn't make the cut for me. Sorry, Chuck.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Deliberate. There's lots of excellent players that I've left off the list, Freeman being one of them. He just doesn't make the cut for me. Sorry, Chuck.

No apology needed, but when we did the fantasy league in '07 I musta scored half my points on Zach (of course, that could also explain why I only finished in 3rd or 4th place - my other picks were mostly dogs! )

[Titan Q]

Deliberate. There's lots of excellent players that I've left off the list, Freeman being one of them. He just doesn't make the cut for me. Sorry, Chuck.

Zach Freeman was awfully good.  From Salem 2006...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2EANANcrj8


Every bit in the category as some of those players listed above in my book.

For anyone intersted, Zach is in his second season playing in Germany, and doing very well.  This year he's averaging 15.9 ppg and 5.9 rpg, shooting 58% from the field...

http://statistik.basketball-bundesliga.de/zweite/stats/player/index.php?team=473&pos=PF&spieler_id=8369&saison=2008

http://www.phoenix-hagen.de/index.php?p=index&area=1

[chairman]

Thanks.... I didn't for a minute think I'd get just five, but I thoroughly enjoyed that rundown. A little history is always good.

Q. with all those Wesleyan names on that list, I wonder who you put in the IWU all-time five. Think about the quality of some of the guys who would not even get in the top ten, and it makes your head spin.

[Scrub023]

Thanks.  I'm not sure your point here, though. 

At the risk of provoking the Bartolotta vs Kent Raymod argument, I was trying to say that all the talk about how great Kent Raymond is, may have messed with CCIW and other DIII fans ability to compare him with other great players in the DIII programs. Also, those same fans have to STRONG of a preference toward Kent Raymond. All the hype and talk about Raymond may have got into the DIII  fans heads a little too much. Thats all Im trying to say.

Note: I do think Raymond is the most valuable of all DIII players.

[Gregory Sager]

Zach Freeman was awfully good.  From Salem 2006...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2EANANcrj8


Every bit in the category as some of those players listed above in my book.

We will have to agree to disagree on him. As I said before, this is a pretty subjective process. It's not fully subjective, though; Scrub023's argument that Kent Raymond somehow doesn't measure up to all of the accolades he's been handed is fallacious and thoroughly contradicted by such evidence as his three CCIW MOP awards.

Thanks.... I didn't for a minute think I'd get just five, but I thoroughly enjoyed that rundown. A little history is always good.

Great players are like potato chips. It's hard to stop at just five.

Thanks.  I'm not sure your point here, though. 

At the risk of provoking the Bartolotta vs Kent Raymod argument, I was trying to say that all the talk about how great Kent Raymond is, may have messed with CCIW and other DIII fans ability to compare him with other great players in the DIII programs.

You haven't provoked that argument at all. Bartolotta is now completely off the radar as far as this discussion is concerned, since nobody's mentioned him in days. Instead, you've provoked a completely different argument: CCIW fans have a distorted view of Kent Raymond because of all the hype, and they've elevated him above his actual playing level.

Also, those same fans have to STRONG of a preference toward Kent Raymond.

You're dead wrong, Scrub023. I've already stated my case as to why. Why haven't you responded to it?

[Scrub023]

You're dead wrong, Scrub023. I've already stated my case as to why. Why haven't you responded to it?

Wow. I had no idea that this would upset you so much. If you read the previous comment I wrote, I am just saying that I thought that was a possibility. I never addressed you directly, and I feel like you took it personal since I meant it to be towards CCIW, not you. I never questioned your knowledge, so dont make me out to be some kind of arrogant jerk. If you don't think that what I said was true, that's ok, but you can't tell me that Im "Dead Wrong" since I may think your dead wrong, its an opinion, live with it. I do believe that all the talk has made fans believe that Kent Raymond is so unbelievable he could not have possibly lost in a POY type award. The evidence was the long lost rant by one fan. And no, I am not starting a new argument, it is true in all conferences. Every conference has a strong preference towards their top players, its part of being a fan, and I thought that may have happened with Raymond a little, not to the extent you made it out to be. Remember, I still think he is the most valuable of all DIII players, so don't make it out to seem like I am anti Raymond or CCIW, cause thats how Im taking all this. I KNOW that he is a fantastic player.

[Scrub023]

And I also think he deserved to be the DIII Player of the year.

[hopefan]

I thought Sean Wallis was the best point guard in the country   oops -that I saw play......