All Americans

[magicman]

Greg-

Can you give your five?

Well, let me start off by saying that there's a lot of D3 stars that I wish I had seen, but never did: Pete Metzelaars, Ron Stewart, Leroy Witherspoon, Shannon Lilly, Bill Bessoir, Dick Hempy, Greg Grant, Scott Tedder, Lamont Strothers, T.J. Van Wie, Merrill Brunson, Dave Jannuzzi, Devean George, Horace Jenkins, Andy Panko, and Jeff Gibbs being the guys who immediately come to mind. If I had seen these guys, my list might've been different. Then again, it might not have been different at all.

The greatest D3 player I ever saw was Michael Harper, hands down. After that, I'd say that there's a pool that consists of Derrick Rowland, Michael Thomas, Modzel Greer, Blaise Bugajski, Justyne Monegain, Wayne Dunning, Steve Iannarino, Dana Janssen, Michael Starks, Michael Barach, Kermit Sharp, Robert Brown, Chris Fite, Steve Honderd, Bryan Crabtree, Korey Coon, Derek Reich, Richard Melzer, and Kent Raymond. I won't rank them, but Raymond's definitely in the upper half of that crew, in fact probably in the top third of it as well. So perhaps I should've said "top ten" instead of "top five".

There's a ton of amazing players I've seen who're not on that list -- Tiny Green, Steve Keenan, Max Artis, Tony Jordan, Mark Linde, Andre McKoy, Rosey Bullock, Brendan Mitchell, Lou Stevens, Jeff Kuehl, Brad Baldridge, Ricky Spicer, Wade Gugino, Eric Elliott, Charles Woods, Kirk Anderson, Chris Simich, Aaron Winkle, Jason Wiertel, Antoine McDaniel, Jeremy Veenstra, Ryan Knuppel, Chris Jeffries, Drew Carstens, Seth Hauben, Joel Kolmodin, Travis Dupree, Jason Kalsow, Nick Bennett, Keelan Amelianovich, Adam Dauksas, Chris Martin, Larry Welton, Troy Ruths, Nate Hainje, and Steve Djurickovic among them -- whom I'd put just a slot or two below those guys. What's frightening is that Djurickovic is on that list, and he still has two years left in his career. The overall body of work that Sean Wallis has put up in the games in which I've seen him play don't warrant his inclusion on this list, but if he comes back next season and plays like he did in the Wheaton sectional he'll definitely be on here as well.

Then there's guys whom I only saw once or maybe twice -- players such as Brian Agler, Ed Jachim, Jason Qua, Dale Turnquist, Ty Evans, Duane Bosma, Joel Holstege, Tim Dworak, Bryan Nelson, Doug Espenson, and Jesse Reimink -- who didn't wow me but whom I realize are much better than the impression that they left upon me. Basketball's the kind of game where you can see a superstar once on what turns out to be a rare off-night and be left with the impression that he's not a superstar at all. That's why it's important not to take too narrow a view of a player whom you only see play once if his credentials are either much better or much worse than that single game's worth of impressions.

This is all just my deeply subjective take, of course.

Greg,
Here's a couple of players that didn't make your list. Maybe they were before your time, but they were 2 of the best D3 stars I've ever seen play. Randy Smith from Buffalo State, who was drafted by the Buffalo Braves in 1971. Randy could shoot with the best of them and is regarded as the best shooting guard the Braves ever had. Holds the team record for steals in a game(8, which he did on 5 occasions) and season(203). Was also the MVP of the 1978 NBA All Star game. 

Mike Deane who played for Potsdam State in 1972-73-74. Mike was a 2 time Small College All-American in '73 and '74 and was drafted by the Milwaukee Bucks. Mike was one of the greatest passers I've seen at any level. He finished his 3 year career as Potsdam's career scoring (1,447) and assists (805) leader and established records for career scoring average (18.0 ppg), most points in a game (42) and most assists in a game (23). He was the head coach at Siena College, Marquette University and Lamar University and led all 3 teams to the NCAA tournament. He is currently the head coach at Wagner University. In his 23 years as a Division 1 head coach he has racked up 408 wins.

And I'm pretty sure if you had seen Leroy Witherspoon play he would have made your list. He was a pleasure to watch.

[hopefan]

Magicman  -  likely players you mentioned were not mentioned by Greg as they were pre D3, or on the cusp of such  -   I am intrigued though as you mentioned 3 players from upstate NY  - is that your background?  I played and then coached at RPI late 60' s through late 70's and am always looking to exchange stories from that era/geography......

[Gregory Sager]

Greg,
Here's a couple of players that didn't make your list. Maybe they were before your time, but they were 2 of the best D3 stars I've ever seen play. Randy Smith from Buffalo State, who was drafted by the Buffalo Braves in 1971. Randy could shoot with the best of them and is regarded as the best shooting guard the Braves ever had. Holds the team record for steals in a game(8, which he did on 5 occasions) and season(203). Was also the MVP of the 1978 NBA All Star game.

He didn't make my list because he was not a D3 player. I know all about Randy Smith, though. As a kid growing up in the Syracuse area I was a big Braves fan, so I was an enthusiastic supporter of Smith, Don May, Elmore Smith, Bob McAdoo, Bob Kauffman, and Ernie D.

Mike Deane who played for Potsdam State in 1972-73-74. Mike was a 2 time Small College All-American in '73 and '74 and was drafted by the Milwaukee Bucks. Mike was one of the greatest passers I've seen at any level. He finished his 3 year career as Potsdam's career scoring (1,447) and assists (805) leader and established records for career scoring average (18.0 ppg), most points in a game (42) and most assists in a game (23). He was the head coach at Siena College, Marquette University and Lamar University and led all 3 teams to the NCAA tournament. He is currently the head coach at Wagner University. In his 23 years as a Division 1 head coach he has racked up 408 wins.

Also not D3. The first season of D3 basketball was 1974-75.

[fcnews]

I was a Big St. Louis Spirits fan. Where is my Fly Williams jersey? Fontbonne started their program in the same facility that the Hawks used as their practice facility. The Hut on the campus of Concordia. Some great pics in a new coffee table book just out.

Great days of pro ball in the STL.

[usee]

I am sure there is nothing sweeter for Greg than someone saying "Maybe they were before your time". Makes old timers like him feel young again. Unfortunately it's not true. Only King D predates Greg I'm afraid. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

I am sure there is nothing sweeter for Greg than someone saying "Maybe they were before your time". Makes old timers like him feel young again. Unfortunately it's not true. Only King D predates Greg I'm afraid. 

Alas, there are many of us older than Greg!

e.g., He is too young to have seen Jack Sikma; I graduated 4 years before Jack enrolled.

[Ralph Turner]

I was a Big St. Louis Spirits fan. Where is my Fly Williams jersey? Fontbonne started their program in the same facility that the Hawks used as their practice facility. The Hut on the campus of Concordia. Some great pics in a new coffee table book just out.

Great days of pro ball in the STL.

The basketball court that was used by the Spirits found its home in the Brownwood Coliseum in Brownwood, TX, home court for the Howard Payne Yellow Jackets.  The court was so bad by 2007, that the city of Brownwood and several local benefactors had to replace it for HPU to host a Sectional.

[magicman]

Greg,
Here's a couple of players that didn't make your list. Maybe they were before your time, but they were 2 of the best D3 stars I've ever seen play. Randy Smith from Buffalo State, who was drafted by the Buffalo Braves in 1971. Randy could shoot with the best of them and is regarded as the best shooting guard the Braves ever had. Holds the team record for steals in a game(8, which he did on 5 occasions) and season(203). Was also the MVP of the 1978 NBA All Star game.

He didn't make my list because he was not a D3 player. I know all about Randy Smith, though. As a kid growing up in the Syracuse area I was a big Braves fan, so I was an enthusiastic supporter of Smith, Don May, Elmore Smith, Bob McAdoo, Bob Kauffman, and Ernie D.

Mike Deane who played for Potsdam State in 1972-73-74. Mike was a 2 time Small College All-American in '73 and '74 and was drafted by the Milwaukee Bucks. Mike was one of the greatest passers I've seen at any level. He finished his 3 year career as Potsdam's career scoring (1,447) and assists (805) leader and established records for career scoring average (18.0 ppg), most points in a game (42) and most assists in a game (23). He was the head coach at Siena College, Marquette University and Lamar University and led all 3 teams to the NCAA tournament. He is currently the head coach at Wagner University. In his 23 years as a Division 1 head coach he has racked up 408 wins.

Also not D3. The first season of D3 basketball was 1974-75.

Picky Picky Picky.  I know it wasn't called D3 back then but still talking about the same level of hoops. In fact the SUNYAC schools were smaller then than they are now. I can see why they weren't on your D3 list though. Glad to hear you were a fan of  Randy and the Braves. Wish I could have seen all the D3 stars you have.

[fcnews]

2007 Wow Ralph, hard to believe it lasted that long. All the time it spent above the ice rink. Not to mentioned the last years when I'm sure it was snawed on by rats the size of house pets. But, The Arena was a great place for concerts. I can still vividly remember the great performances in the Final Four. Marvin Barnes in his full length mink coat, signing autographs after a game. Wow there were some great players that played on that floor.

[magicman]

I know all about Randy Smith, though. As a kid growing up in the Syracuse areaI was a big Braves fan, so I was an enthusiastic supporter of Smith, Don May, Elmore Smith, Bob McAdoo, Bob Kauffman, and Ernie D.

We were practically neighbors back then, as I grew up only 65 miles away in the Watertown-Carthage area. Spent many Friday and Saturday nights in the summer of '67 at the Red Dog Saloon in Manlius. The house band that summer was some college buddies from Potsdam St. You may or may not remember the place as it might have been history by the time you were drinking age.  And of course there was always the obligatory trip to the State fair every summer. Ah, the good old days.

[magicman]

Magicman  -  likely players you mentioned were not mentioned by Greg as they were pre D3, or on the cusp of such  -   I am intrigued though as you mentioned 3 players from upstate NY  - is that your background?  I played and then coached at RPI late 60' s through late 70's and am always looking to exchange stories from that era/geography......

hopefan,

Yes it is. Did you ever play against Dave Healy from SLU? '67 and '68 I believe. Was a small college All American. Great jump shooter, and rebounder. Drove hard to the basket, was very physical and played much bigger than the 6'2" that he was.

And you might have coached against a good friend of mine, Joe Cardany, who went to Union from '77 to '81. Joe was a D3 All American in 1981. He graduated as Union's all-time leading scorer with 1790 pts and held that record for 21 years despite playing in the era of no 3 pt shot. Had there been 3 pointers he would still hold the record I believe.

[hopefan]

Magic -

I kind of skirted both those guys - if Healy graduated in 68, that would have been my freshman year, and frosh back then were limited to 3 years varsity....   Cardeny would have been a frosh or a soph my last year of coaching, I remember the name, but probably from reading about him after I left coaching.  Names I remember were a guard from SLU named Francis, who made the All Conference team with me as the guards in my senior year 1971 -  also remember a forward named Hughes from SLU - mid 70's - a strong 6'4" forward-  Union had Jimmy Tedesco when I played, flashy curly haired explosive guard - and Bill Carmody when I was coaching - (He has coached at Princeton and Northwestern)  - also remember the big guy from Hobart with the great name - Carmen Genovese -  and the 3 Panaggios at Brockport  (pop and 2 sons)- we played there in the first NCAA D3 tourney in74-75 (and got beat, though we beat Albany St the next night)
great coaches when I was coaching and playing - Dick Sauers at Albany, Gary Walters at Union, Paul Evans at SLU (later to Pitt), Bill Kalbaugh at RPI, and a very young Mike Neer at Rochester.. oh and Murphy was just starting at Hamilton before Hamilton was good  -
another thing to remember is the various gyms - Union with the 'elevated' floor and deadspots - and 'bandboxes' at RPI, Williams, St Lawrence, Hamilton - running down the narrow fire escape to get on the Rochester floor- the unbelievable scenic trips up to Plattsburgh, SLU, Clarkson...

Good memories.....

[Gregory Sager]

I am sure there is nothing sweeter for Greg than someone saying "Maybe they were before your time". Makes old timers like him feel young again. Unfortunately it's not true. Only King D predates Greg I'm afraid. 

Alas, there are many of us older than Greg!

e.g., He is too young to have seen Jack Sikma; I graduated 4 years before Jack enrolled.

Based upon the various CCIW Chat regulars I have met over the years, I'd say that I'm either right at the median age for the room's regular contributors, or a just a little bit older than it. There have been times on CCIW Chat when Bob Quillman has been kidded for his youth, and Bob's now old enough to have run for president this past year. As d3boards.com rooms go, CCIW Chat is definitely Matlock in a sea of Gossip Girls.

Unfortunately, there aren't many other rooms on d3boards.com where I can claim to not be superannuated.

I know all about Randy Smith, though. As a kid growing up in the Syracuse areaI was a big Braves fan, so I was an enthusiastic supporter of Smith, Don May, Elmore Smith, Bob McAdoo, Bob Kauffman, and Ernie D.

We were practically neighbors back then, as I grew up only 65 miles away in the Watertown-Carthage area. Spent many Friday and Saturday nights in the summer of '67 at the Red Dog Saloon in Manlius. The house band that summer was some college buddies from Potsdam St. You may or may not remember the place as it might have been history by the time you were drinking age.  And of course there was always the obligatory trip to the State fair every summer. Ah, the good old days.

Anyone who grew up in Watertown/Carthage has my sympathies. I mean, man, I thought that I had to suffer through interminable snowstorms every winter!

I graduated from Liverpool H.S. in '79, so the Red Dog Saloon was both before my time and on the opposite side of the city. Most of my bar experiences in CNY involved various establishments on the Hill during visits home when I was a recent post-collegian, since SU bars seem to be the best thing Syracuse has going for it when you're an early-twentysomething.

The State Fair was a major highlight of the year, of course, if you grew up in the Syracuse area.

[RustCollege]

Greg-

Can you give your five?

I hav five for u wat about Grant Glover( Rust College), David Hicks (Centre),Toney Seay(Averett),Tim Garrett(Emory College),and Marvin Macklin(North Caroline Wesleyan)

[Hugenerd]

I was just watching the Final Four Festivities on ESPN and John Grotberg just shot a 17 in the 3 point contest.  I dont think that is going to get him to the next round, but not a bad showing for the only d3 contestant.

Update: Grotberg missed the semifinals by 2 points.  4th place had 19 points.