All Americans

[D3ball1845]

Not sure why that deserves -1 karma when I was politely informing you of your mistake. We're all human.

[SaintPaulite]

Not sure why that deserves -1 karma when I was politely informing you of your mistake. We're all human.

1. I didn't give you -k
2. I didn't make a mistake.
3. Read my edit.
4.
5. Profit!

[Smitty Oom]

This is why stats are misleading sometimes, and I say that as a guy that deals with data for a living. Sometimes you gotta use context to understand what the data is really telling you.

I am regrettably responding to this... but I find it funny you said this in response to fantastic50, who is a mathematics prof at Wooster College.

Also, since I am here I might as well ask...

I've seen the probably consensus second best player in the country, and having seen the video of Francis against N Central, I have no problem believing he's the best. Put him on Augustana where he's not the sole focus of the defense, and we could probably just forget about the national tournament this year.

Who are you referencing here?

[D3ball1845]

Your edit wasn't available until two minutes ago. So I had nothing to go off of. Wouldn't have accused you of the -k if you didn't initially respond  with just a picture. Your first post made it seem like you were comparing the 3 players to me. Therefore, in my eyes you made a mistake and I was respectfully sharing my opinion on the matter. No hard feelings.

[SaintPaulite]

This is why stats are misleading sometimes, and I say that as a guy that deals with data for a living. Sometimes you gotta use context to understand what the data is really telling you.

I am regrettably responding to this... but I find it funny you said this in response to fantastic50, who is a mathematics prof at Wooster College.

Also, since I am here I might as well ask...

I've seen the probably consensus second best player in the country, and having seen the video of Francis against N Central, I have no problem believing he's the best. Put him on Augustana where he's not the sole focus of the defense, and we could probably just forget about the national tournament this year.

Who are you referencing here?

Coplin. Maybe consensus wasn't the perfect word, but he has to be the "runner-up favorite".

I respect Drew's work greatly. Let me be clear here, I think he provides more value for me personally than anyone that posts here.

I'm just saying sometimes the numbers leave part of the story out, or don't give you a counterfactual, or any number of other ways that numbers still require human interpretation and domain knowledge to fully explain a situation. 

I'm not saying he doesn't know that, but it wasn't really present in that rundown of numbers, and that context is critical in understanding Francis and his impact on Wheaton, a team that it's hard to even conceptualize without him.

It's like the people that said Kobe shot too much in the post-Shaq years. What, you want the other guys shooting more, and Kobe shooting less? Doesn't seem like a great plan...

[SaintPaulite]

Your edit wasn't available until two minutes ago. So I had nothing to go off of. Wouldn't have accused you of the -k if you didn't initially respond  with just a picture. Your first post made it seem like you were comparing the 3 players to me. Therefore, in my eyes you made a mistake and I was respectfully sharing my opinion on the matter. No hard feelings.

Fair enough.

[D3ball1845]

This is why stats are misleading sometimes, and I say that as a guy that deals with data for a living. Sometimes you gotta use context to understand what the data is really telling you.

I am regrettably responding to this... but I find it funny you said this in response to fantastic50, who is a mathematics prof at Wooster College.

Also, since I am here I might as well ask...

I've seen the probably consensus second best player in the country, and having seen the video of Francis against N Central, I have no problem believing he's the best. Put him on Augustana where he's not the sole focus of the defense, and we could probably just forget about the national tournament this year.

Who are you referencing here?

Coplin. Maybe consensus wasn't the perfect word, but he has to be the "runner-up favorite".

I respect Drew's work greatly. I'm just saying sometimes the numbers leave part of the story out, or don't give you a counterfactual, or any number of other ways that numbers still require human interpretation and domain knowledge to fully explain a situation. 

I'm not saying he doesn't know that, but it wasn't really present in that rundown of numbers, and that context is critical in understanding Francis and his impact on Wheaton, a team that it's hard to even conceptualize without him.

It's like the people that said Kobe shot too much in the post-Shaq years. What, you want the other guys shooting more, and Kobe shooting less? Doesn't seem like a great plan...

Wow, I  just looked up Coplin's stats. They are off the chart good and he plays on a Top 50 team in a good conference. His stats are eerily similar to Austin Coene of RWU, actually almost the exact same, except Coplin shoots better from 3 and the FT line. Coene also plays on a "not so good" team in the CCC, which strength wise is definitely an inferior conference to the MIAC. However, both teams are likely to finish 3rd in their conference, have about the same SOS at .53, yet Augsburg has a much better record. I also don't really have any knowledge of D3 basketball out in the Midwest. But, it does look like both conferences will have 2 bids to the NCAA tournament. Besides Coene and Coplin, I don't think anyone else really has a case against Francis if we are strictly basing comparison on statistics.

[Greek Tragedy]

So does St. Thomas's Nelson have the edge in ROTY honors since his team made the tournament and Turell's Yeshiva didn't?

[NEsoccerfan20]

I would think Ty Nichols out of Keene State would be considered for 1st team AA. Saw him play a few times and he's easily the best scorer in new england. His overall numbers are very good and he's third nationally in scoring at 27.3 ppg.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

So does St. Thomas's Nelson have the edge in ROTY honors since his team made the tournament and Turell's Yeshiva didn't?

I mean, the awards aren't decided until the final four, so playing additional games can either help or hurt one's candidacy, depending on how they play, right?  I don't think history indicates that making the tournament is a requirement - see last year's national player of the year.

[Greek Tragedy]

So does St. Thomas's Nelson have the edge in ROTY honors since his team made the tournament and Turell's Yeshiva didn't?

I mean, the awards aren't decided until the final four, so playing additional games can either help or hurt one's candidacy, depending on how they play, right? I don't think history indicates that making the tournament is a requirement - see last year's national player of the year.

Of course not. But if it's a close race and Player A leads you to a tourney birth and Player B doesn't, it might give player A an edge. That's all.

[Gregory Sager]

Yes, but if Player A stinks it up in the tourney, he's hurting his cause by doing so on the biggest stage possible.

[Greek Tragedy]

Yes, but if Player A stinks it up in the tourney, he's hurting his cause by doing so on the biggest stage possible.

I understand that. If he stinks it up, the team may lose in the 1st round. If it's that close, I'm still taking the guy who got us into the tourney and had one bad game on the big stage over the guy who didn't get us to the big stage at all.

[AndOne]

Yes, but if Player A stinks it up in the tourney, he's hurting his cause by doing so on the biggest stage possible.

And we've certainly seen that happen.

[Smitty Oom]

I would think Ty Nichols out of Keene State would be considered for 1st team AA. Saw him play a few times and he's easily the best scorer in new england. His overall numbers are very good and he's third nationally in scoring at 27.3 ppg.

He definitely is on the short list of players, in my eyes, who could be 1st team AA.