Empire 8

[gobombers15]

UCgrad, it will be interesting to see how the conference shakes out if Utica is a successful road team this season. Despite being a native Rochesterian, I never had the opportunity to see D3 games in the area until last year when I was done with college and taking a year off before grad school. I can't really make any statements about the officials in the area other than they are typical D3 refs and tend to be, um, below average.

I do agree with you that the Rochester teams tend to get more home calls than the other squads. Before there's an upheaval, I'll explain myself. McVean and Kornaker are well-respected coaches. Well-respected coaches tend to get calls with referees with whom they are familiar. I can remember many instances where I was sitting in Ithaca's gym, turned to a friend and asked if we could get a call...one call! It felt like we were the visitors at home! Like Coach K of Duke, Kornaker is a master at working the officials. He starts early and keeps it going all game. He will battle for every call and if I were one of his players I'd appreciate that as much as his players surely do.

This, however, has no bearing on the fact that RIT and Fisher are consistently very good basketball teams coached by very good coaches. In no way, shape or form am I saying officials are the reason for their successes; these teams would be good no matter who was reffing. All I'm saying is I do see where UCgrad is coming from about the relative style difference between the central NY refs and the Rochester-area officials.

[ricco1]

UC grad. Lets leave the refs out of this.Last
year Fisher won in  the last few seconds of the game by defense. I was at the game nd UC had a chance for last shot and  had the ball stolen,refs had nothing to do with it. The home team always gets the calls. So do'nt blame the refs for UC's loses yet. I think the game at UC will be close.

[bamm]

Damn, and I thought we were going to make it through Christmas break without hearing from any obnoxious Fisher students. 

The UC poster made no mention of any specific game.  In your Fisher-centric arrogance, you just assumed he was talking about your school. 

Can we lay off the new posters who have something sensible to say, please?

[Hawk Backer]

Lake Erie is better than a lot of people think around here.

I am calling for the upset.  I don't think Fisher can stay with Richardson, Wasthington and Williams.  Not even mentioning Harris, who was conference preseason POY.

They've also beaten D2 Edinboro this season, after Edinboro made the NCAA Tournament a year ago.

[gobombers15]

Lake Erie is better than a lot of people think around here.

I am calling for the upset. I don't think Fisher can stay with Richardson, Wasthington and Williams. Not even mentioning Harris, who was conference preseason POY.

They've also beaten D2 Edinboro this season, after Edinboro made the NCAA Tournament a year ago.

After what happened in their first game of the year, don't expect Fisher to take any team lightly. Lake Erie has played nobody and, regardless of their statistics, have yet to step on the court with a team the caliber of Fisher. I can't see Lake Erie being any better than Alfred, really.

And, thanks, but I'll take O'Brien, Auman, McGee and Beigel against whatever hacks you just mentioned.

Ricco, I don't think the UCgrad mentioned any particular game or school where the officiating was tremendously he awful. He just said the game is reffed differently in Rochester...he could be referring to RIT, Naz or Fisher. Let's not run off a poster who actually has an intelligent opinion and has a grasp on the English language...two things RTH has none of.

[Hawk Backer]

First of all, re-read the post.  I never said Fisher was going to take them lightly.  I said Lake Erie is better than people think. 

And to be honest, a D2 program that went to the tournament last year and lost to D1 Penn State by only 13 is, I would say, "as good" as Fisher and would not be the equivalent of "nobody".

I'm not saying Lake Erie is going to dominate.  Never did.  I simply stated that I believe they can, and will, pull the upset on a neutral floor.

We will see how "the hacks" fair.

PS- Without looking, do you even know where Lake Erie College is located?  I would guess not.

[gobombers15]

Yes, in Ohio.

I visited at Case Western Law after I had to evacuate from New Orleans and Tulane Law. One kid in one of my classes went to Lake Erie and, yes, he was a moron.

Eat it.

[Hawk Backer]

Did I say they were smart?

I said they could play ball.

And please respond to the rest of my post.  Thank you.

PS- The fact that you are in law school really does impress me.  Thank you.

[gobombers15]

First off, friend, do I care if the fact I'm a law school student impresses you? Nope. As a general rule, do I care what any Hartwick grad or "Hawk backer" cares about me? That's a negativo. But since all you Hartwick grads have a different definition of the word "fact," I'll indulge you with this analysis:

-Combined record of Lake Erie's D3 opponents: 19-31(and that's including 6-4 Bethany)

-Combined winning percentage of Lake Erie's D3 opponents: .380

-Lake Erie lost to 4-5 Capital...usually a good team, but experiencing a down year yet still easily took care of Lake Erie

-Lake Erie D3 wins: Kenyon(who?), Mt.Union(this ain't football), Medaille(oooooh), Hilbert(huh?), Bethany(she sounds cute). I guess what I'm saying is they haven't exactly taken on the "who's who" of D3, if you will.

-Now, to the much-ballyhooed, stop-the-presses, front-page news victory over Edinboro. To you, I say this: who cares what they did last year? It's not last year, it's this year. I don't care if Edinboro made the tourney LAST YEAR, I don't care if they lost to Penn State by "only" 13 points LAST YEAR. By the way, is that the same Penn St team that got their asses tanned at Pitt by 37 points(ouch!)? Or is it the same Penn St team that won't even win 4 games in the Big Eleven this year? Sure, it's a decent win for Lake Erie, but I think Fisher can beat some D2 teams, and good ones at that.

I'm not knocking Lake Erie. I did say they haven't really played anyone and, considering what I've shown, I stand by that statement. I said Fisher would win by about 11-15 points. That's not a drubbing, bud. That could mean Fisher is up six most of the way then just hits foul-shots. Calm yourself, broseph.

My question is this: why all the venom towards Fisher and their fans from Hartwick fans? Don't you have smaller fish to fry...like Elmira! Elmira's the reason you can't get out of the basement, maybe you should hate on them for a little while and stop trying to get little victories over Fisher potentially losing games.

In the words of B-Rad from Malibu's Most Wanted, "Don't Hate!"

[Hawk Backer]

Check your facts.  I could give two SH*TS about Hartwick.  I'm not even a fan of the conference.

I graduated from a high D1 school that is a Tier 1 college in Upstate NY.  I would venture to guess it's a bit better than Hartwick College.  There are a few of my fellow classmates in both the NBA and NFL, so I'm pretty sure you can figure out the school.

Second...  Penn State would beat St. John Fisher by the same margin it beat Edinboro by.  If not more.  Take that one to the bank.

Thirdly... Who has Fisher beat this year?  And if you wanna actually argue, their schedule was pretty weak last year, too.  They lost to the only good team that they faced (Baldwin-Wallace), beat a bad Delaware Valley team, a Hobart team without their best player (Colby Feane, who was still playing football) and two SUNYAC schools: Fredonia, the doormat of the conference, and Geneseo, who isn't exactly knocking down any doors at 1-6.

Combined record of St. John Fisher's opponents: 16-25 (including 8-1 Baldwin-Wallace)

Winning percentage: .390

And Bethany beat Wheeling Jesuit, a D2 school, so scoff at that win all you'd like, but I'd like to believe it is at the very least comparable to the Cardinals drubbing of Geneseo State.

And finally, Mr. bomber.  I never said anything bad about St. John Fisher.  If you will read the post that I made on the AMCC board and re-read everything that I've said here, I state that they have proven to be one of the top D3 teams in the northeast and have said that Lake Erie was better than people thought around here and could, and I think will, pull the upset.

While the jury may still be out on both of these teams, the jury has reached a verdict in this case.  Keep working, though.

[gobombers15]

Please, you have proven nothing other than you put too much stock in D3 teams beating D2 teams. In several instances, D3 teams ARE better than D2 teams.

Secondly, don't change my argument. My argument was that Lake Erie really hasn't beaten anyone. Fact. My argument was NOT that Lake Erie hasn't beaten anyone BUT Fisher has beaten teams. I know Fisher hasn't played anyone yet. You find me one place where I said Fisher has played a tough schedule. You'll be looking all night. There goes the main argument of your last post. However, I commend you for your attempt at twisting my words...you sure you're not a law school grad yourself?

My final prediction:

Fisher    78
Lake Minnetonka 65

Ok, no more defending Fisher, where's JoshReed when you need him. I think I just threw-up in my mouth twice...thinking about defending Fisher AND hoping for a JoshReed comeback.

But HawkBacker, if you care to continue this intellectual rock fight, I'd more than oblige. Got anymore "Team X beat a D2 team therefore they'll beat Fisher" logical masterpieces for us?

[UCgrad45]

Damn, and I thought we were going to make it through Christmas break without hearing from any obnoxious Fisher students. 

The UC poster made no mention of any specific game.  In your Fisher-centric arrogance, you just assumed he was talking about your school. 

Can we lay off the new posters who have something sensible to say, please?

Thank you bamm.

Ricco, all I said was that there was a different style of officiating in Rochester. I actually have friends on Fisher who won't deny that in Rochester, the non-rochester teams need to play a perfect game to win because they will not get a single call.

[UCgrad45]

Bethany(she sounds cute).

That made me spit coffee onto my monitor.

[clearconceit]

Utica is that good this year.  I agree with you Utica man.  As a long time fan of this crew this is the best team they have ever had in D-3.  I am looking forward to the season.  Go UTICA!

As an aside this Hawk thing sure is picking up steam.  Listen as I said, I saw them scrimmage Suny IT and then play in their tournament and they are much improved.  I don't know Bomber buddy, they may get you this year!!!!

And the REF's in Rochester suck.  You have to be 15 pts better than any of theose 3 Rochester schools to win a game.  That is a fact.

Later

[gobombers15]

Utica is that good this year. I agree with you Utica man. As a long time fan of this crew this is the best team they have ever had in D-3. I am looking forward to the season. Go UTICA!

As an aside this Hawk thing sure is picking up steam. Listen as I said, I saw them scrimmage Suny IT and then play in their tournament and they are much improved. I don't know Bomber buddy, they may get you this year!!!!

And the REF's in Rochester suck. You have to be 15 pts better than any of theose 3 Rochester schools to win a game. That is a fact.

Later

They may be "improved" but I'm not sure they're on the level of even an Ithaca yet. I'll take my chances with Bellis/Andruskiewicz/Whetstone as well as a nice, improving young core of players like Stahn, Joe, Burton, and Scanlon.