Empire 8

[gobombers15]

The main thing Fisher has to worry about is losing in the E8 Tourney, Brockport getting beat and Hamilton beating SLU in the LL title game. If that's the case, Brockport will definitely get an at-large. SLU's loss to Hamilton will do little to its QOWI number (E8 fans shouldn't complain about this because this is why Utica got in with three losses against Fisher last year; losses to good teams don't kill the QOWI) so they'd still have a higher number than Fisher. I think both NYU and UR are make it. UR's QOWI will likely go up because I think they earned 21 points this weekend (or was it 20?), so their average is 10.5 for those two games. The win over Wash U was big.

If Fisher can avoid these things, they're in great shape. That RIT game is looming large, though. How much would RIT love to ruin Fisher's season after Fisher has done the same to them for a few seasons in a row.

[gobombers15]

GB15 - Don't underestimate the role seniority seems to play in these awards.  Last season 8 of the 10 players on 1st and 2nd team were seniors.  When a voter could go either way, they tend to go for the seniors, which is why guys like Stein and Bacon will probably end up further up your chart.

Yeah, I thought about that, hence why I think McSweeney will be a likely 1st-teamer. As far as Stein goes, I think his numbers have actually regressed since last year and even his sophomore year. The guy, in our eyes, is surviving on the name he built for himself in his first two seasons. He, McCarter and Clemenson all came in the same year and Stein was by far the best. I think McCarter has passed him. I definitely don't think Stein has had a better year than any of the guys on the 2nd team. When I ranked the forwards/centers, I even had Gethers and Tyler Smith ranked in front of him. I think it would be ridiculous to put him on 2nd team.

When I was figuring this out last night, Bacon was the guy I was most undecided about. If he shot even 60% from the line, I think he'd be in the debate for potentially making 1st team. I just don't see who he'd replace. Bostic's numbers (worthy of 1st team) are way too good to knock him down to honorable mention. I would say that he may have had Beigel's spot were it not for Beigel's triple-double against Utica the other night. As I mentioned, maybe they won't put McAdam on the 2nd team because he's a freshman (which would show you how much really goes into these awards if one of the top two or three players in the league doesn't even make 2nd team). I like Bacon and I think he has a better shot than Stein. We'll see what happens.

[rjcarter8]

The main thing Fisher has to worry about is losing in the E8 Tourney, Brockport getting beat and Hamilton beating SLU in the LL title game. If that's the case, Brockport will definitely get an at-large. SLU's loss to Hamilton will do little to its QOWI number (E8 fans shouldn't complain about this because this is why Utica got in with three losses against Fisher last year; losses to good teams don't kill the QOWI) so they'd still have a higher number than Fisher. I think both NYU and UR are make it. UR's QOWI will likely go up because I think they earned 21 points this weekend (or was it 20?), so their average is 10.5 for those two games. The win over Wash U was big.

If Fisher can avoid these things, they're in great shape. That RIT game is looming large, though. How much would RIT love to ruin Fisher's season after Fisher has done the same to them for a few seasons in a row.

I know there's been lots of discussion about SLU and Hamilton and who might make the tourney from the LL. There have been some who think SLU is a lock even if it doesn't win the LL tourney, but they are the second seed playing at Hamilton, a team they've already lost to twice. Plus, they are 10-4 in the league, which isn't as strong as the SUNYACs, although I think it's tougher than the E8. SLU also has league losses to Hobart and Vassar, as well as a 30-point drubbing at the hands of Bport. That's not too impressive. I think the LL only gets one team in the tourney — the conference tourney champ.

[bjgiants6]

Okay everyone..... trying not to look ahead, who gets in the tourament? Will any of these area teams host a first round game or 2nd round game? Fisher/Brockport will in my opinion. Also for the "sweet 16" IT SEEMS THAT AMHERST WILL HOST IT AGAIN! I BELIEVE IT WILL BE THE 4TH STRAIGHT YEAR! What does everyone else think? That one year was ridiculous when 3 out of the 4 teams in the "sweet 16" were from NY and had to go to Amherst. I just want to watch a "sweet 16" for once in NYS.

[bamm]

Here's the latest QOWI numbers.

Rank   Points   Team
12   10.583   Brockport State
23   10.292   St. Lawrence
26   10.208   St. John Fisher
29   10.130   Rochester
42   9.870   New York University
48   9.762   Hamilton
67   9.435   Utica

And this is last week's East Region Rankings:

1. Brockport State 18-4 17-4, 10.286
2. St. Lawrence 18-5 17-5, 10.364
3. Rochester 16-6 16-5, 10.286
4 Hamilton 16-5 13-5, 10.000
5. Utica 18-4 17-4, 9.857

Hamilton and Utica will fall out of those rankings due to losses last week.  Given those numbers, SLU and Brockport are locks.  Fisher is damn close.  Rochester, too.  However, as we've been saying, if Fisher loses in the E8 their may not be room for them, UR, and NYU in the dance. 

Hamilton has to win the LL tourney.

[FisherDynasty]

Agreed Bamm.  If hamilton wins the LL, Bport loses the SUNYAC and Fisher loses in the E8 there is going to be some tough decisions made to see who gets in.  If those events occur then I dont see both UofR and NYU getting in, I think it will be one or the other.  As far as Fisher goes, if both hamilton wins and Bport loses and they lose i dont think they will get in, But if only one happens I think they will.

[e8bballfan]

Corey McAdam makes d3hoops.com 'Team of the Week'

Ray Bryant made it earlier this season as well.



...and what are the match-ups this weekend at Fisher?

[b4the3isme]

rjcarter- I've asked this question before of people-  why do you think the Lib League is so weak?  I would think that if Hamilton beats SLU in the championship game (which I believe is probably the most likely scenario) both will get into the NCAA.  Everyone talks about the SUNYAC being so strong, but other the B-port who may be the best team in the east I haven't found the SUNYAC to be overly impressive this year.  LL bottom dwellers Clarkson beat Oswego on its home floor, beat Potsdam twice and lost to the second best team Plattsburg. They also had wins over RIT and Utica and they were 5-9 in their league? If Hamilton were to lose to SLU in the championship game they might have the most outside shot at a pool C bid but other than SJF and B-port no other team in either the e-8 or SUNYAC has a prayer of getting a pool C nod.

[Pat Coleman]

Okay everyone..... trying not to look ahead, who gets in the tourament? Will any of these area teams host a first round game or 2nd round game? Fisher/Brockport will in my opinion. Also for the "sweet 16" IT SEEMS THAT AMHERST WILL HOST IT AGAIN! I BELIEVE IT WILL BE THE 4TH STRAIGHT YEAR! What does everyone else think? That one year was ridiculous when 3 out of the 4 teams in the "sweet 16" were from NY and had to go to Amherst. I just want to watch a "sweet 16" for once in NYS.

If they're that good, they should keep hosting. If an NY team wants to host, it should get better.

[b4the3isme]

Pat it's hard to argue against that logic.  How would a NY school be able to get the advantage of hosting? Certainly SJF was undefeated one year going into the tournament and it wasn't an option.  UofR plays in what may be one of the toughest d-3 conferences in the nation and has had excellent teams but never seems to be considered in recent years.  I guess I'm just asking an experts advice on what it make take?  Several years of domination (like SJF or Amherst).  A flat out amazing squad with a QOWI off the chart?  Or do more subtle things like central location, facilities, attendence play a large factor?

[superman57]

it's given to the highest ranked team in the region...and by ranked I mean the NCAA's rank

[bamm]

it's given to the highest ranked team in the region...and by ranked I mean the NCAA's rank

Well, I think you know this Superman, but I'll issue a slight correction.  Amherst is, of course, in the NE region.  The teams in the E8, SUNYAC, and LL are in the East. 

There was confusion two years ago, a lot of people thought the NCAA chose Amherst to host when Fisher was undefeated because Fisher COULDN'T host (because they couldn't meet minimum capacity req's with their gym).  This was not the case -- the NCAA had Amherst as the #1 seed in that bracket and ranked ahead of Fisher.  Considering the spanking Potsdam put on Fisher it's hard to argue with their decision (even though Amherst lost to Rochester).

Last season Amherst held home court and smashed Fisher.  Again, hard to argue with their decision (although their wasn't as much controversy last year).

It wasn't long ago that Brockport hosted a regional.  That place was rocking for the Rochester/Brockport final (UR won).  It will happen again (not necessarily Port, but a NY team).  Amherst (or any NESCAC team) isn't going to go 25-1 every season. 

[sjfcards]

Here's the latest QOWI numbers.

Rank   Points   Team
12   10.583   Brockport State
23   10.292   St. Lawrence
26   10.208   St. John Fisher
29   10.130   Rochester
42   9.870   New York University
48   9.762   Hamilton
67   9.435   Utica

And this is last week's East Region Rankings:

1. Brockport State 18-4 17-4, 10.286
2. St. Lawrence 18-5 17-5, 10.364
3. Rochester 16-6 16-5, 10.286
4 Hamilton 16-5 13-5, 10.000
5. Utica 18-4 17-4, 9.857

Hamilton and Utica will fall out of those rankings due to losses last week.  Given those numbers, SLU and Brockport are locks.  Fisher is damn close.  Rochester, too.  However, as we've been saying, if Fisher loses in the E8 their may not be room for them, UR, and NYU in the dance. 

Hamilton has to win the LL tourney.

I agree with most of this...it looks pretty good to me, what do you think the East region rankings  will look like?
I agree Hamilton needs to win the tourny. I think SLU and Brockport are locks...but I also think Fisher is as close to a lock as you can get without being 100% in. barring a complete colapse against RIT...If they get waxed that will really really hurt.

[superman57]

bamm, your right I should of clarfied my comment...when I say region I mean old school NCAA there are 4 regions that host the qualifyers up to the NCAA final 4

[gobombers15]

Here's the latest QOWI numbers.

Rank   Points   Team
12   10.583   Brockport State
23   10.292   St. Lawrence
26   10.208   St. John Fisher
29   10.130   Rochester
42   9.870   New York University
48   9.762   Hamilton
67   9.435   Utica

And this is last week's East Region Rankings:

1. Brockport State 18-4 17-4, 10.286
2. St. Lawrence 18-5 17-5, 10.364
3. Rochester 16-6 16-5, 10.286
4 Hamilton 16-5 13-5, 10.000
5. Utica 18-4 17-4, 9.857

Hamilton and Utica will fall out of those rankings due to losses last week.  Given those numbers, SLU and Brockport are locks.  Fisher is damn close.  Rochester, too.  However, as we've been saying, if Fisher loses in the E8 their may not be room for them, UR, and NYU in the dance. 

Hamilton has to win the LL tourney.

I agree with most of this...it looks pretty good to me, what do you think the East region rankings  will look like?
I agree Hamilton needs to win the tourny. I think SLU and Brockport are locks...but I also think Fisher is as close to a lock as you can get without being 100% in. barring a complete colapse against RIT...If they get waxed that will really really hurt.

I don't think it has anything to do with a "collapse" if they lose to RIT. The Tigers beat Fisher on their home floor in their first meeting at Fisher and each of the three games between the two schools has been pretty evenly matched. I think if RIT can withstand the barrage that Fisher always throws at teams in the first 8 minutes, it'll be tight throughous.

Also, I think you fail to realize that if Fisher doesn't beat RIT, it's no longer about Fisher. What I mean by that is the Cardinals' fate would be in the hands of what goes on in the LL and SUNYAC Tournaments. Assuming Fisher loses to RIT, here is what I would say Fisher's at-large chances look like based on what goes on in the LL and SUNYAC tourneys:

-SLU wins LL Tourney, Brockport takes SUNYAC Tourney (Fisher definitely in)

-Hamilton wins LL Tourney, Brockport wins SUNYAC Tourney (Fisher likely still makes it, but it will be close because of SLU's better QOWI and the competition from NYU for an at-large)

-SLU wins LL Tourney, someone besides Brockport wins SUNYAC's (again, see the situation immediately above; I think Fisher still has a good shot under such a scenario, but it wouldn't be definite)

-Hamilton wins LL Tourney and someone besides Brockport wins SUNYAC's (this is Fisher's nightmare scenario, assuming the loss to RIT; if this comes to fruition, I think the Cards will be sweating come Sunday night and there's a solid chance they could be left out of the field)