Empire 8

[FisherDynasty]

The E8 preseason coaches poll has come out, it went like this.

2007 Empire 8 Men's Basketball Preseason Coaches Poll
1.   St. John Fisher College (5 first-place votes)        61 points
2.   Ithaca College (2)                                            52
      Stevens Institute of Technology (1)                   52
4.   Nazareth College (1)                                        44
5.   Utica College                                                   40
6.   Rochester Institute of Technology                     29
7.   Hartwick College                                             23
8.   Elmira College                                                12
9.   Alfred University                                              11

Nothing real suprising there.  See below for the full story.

http://empire8.com/News/20071109-1.shtml

[Caz Bombers]

That's a heck of a slap in the face to Alfred if the coaches really think they're worse than the 4th grade CYO outfit at Elmira.  Yikes, I wonder if it's justified.  Lotta respect shown for Fisher (understandable) and IC (interrrrresting.)

[sjfcards]

I guess I did not give Ithaca the credit that they deserve. I expected to see Fisher and Stevens at the top, but maybe IC has more talent than I thought.

[FisherDynasty]

its a tough call sjfc.  yes ithaca has talent they have all conf playeres and i know bostic, burton can both play and leahy is a good big swingman then they have descent role players surrounding them.  However, its tough to give them credit when they havnt really done much in a while.  I think they have overacheived the past few years.  They do play physical D which i think is what helps them remain more consistent then say a nazareth.  But i do think this is goin to be a good year for Ithaca, there is a big diff. between sophmore and junior year, i think they will come together.  As far as fisher, saw some of the scrimmage against medaille. This is going to be a team that definitely peaks at the end of the season similarly to last year.  They are going to struggle scoring at times  but dont think they will go 0-2 against any team in the conference.  They are going to lose more games then normal and probably disapoint a lot of people come conf. tourny time if they make it. 

[gobombers15]

its a tough call sjfc.  yes ithaca has talent they have all conf playeres and i know bostic, burton can both play and leahy is a good big swingman then they have descent role players surrounding them.  However, its tough to give them credit when they havnt really done much in a while.  I think they have overacheived the past few years.  They do play physical D which i think is what helps them remain more consistent then say a nazareth.  But i do think this is goin to be a good year for Ithaca, there is a big diff. between sophmore and junior year, i think they will come together.  As far as fisher, saw some of the scrimmage against medaille. This is going to be a team that definitely peaks at the end of the season similarly to last year.  They are going to struggle scoring at times  but dont think they will go 0-2 against any team in the conference.  They are going to lose more games then normal and probably disapoint a lot of people come conf. tourny time if they make it. 

You, good sir, are the first person I have ever head say that IC men's basketball has overachieved in recent years. They have been a model of medicrioty, the blueprint of "blah." They've had some good players on those teams (Bellis, Burton, Bostic, Roth, Andruskiewicz, Ty Schultz) but never did anything of note. Heck, they haven't even won one E8 Tourney game. I certainly don't think they have overachieved in any sense of the word and I'm sure Caz would back me up on this.

Are you a relative of Jim Mullins or something?

[Caz Bombers]

I would say Ithaca has neither overachieved nor underachieved.  They've just kinda...achieved?  Mullins has never been able to find more than 2 or 3 good players at a time, not much in the way of bench production.

[bombersquadron]

Despite what people think, Ithaca has underachieved in recent years. Back when they had Schulz, Bellis and Roth they were good, but Fisher was just better and has always had Ithaca's number. Fisher and Ithaca battled a few times in Ben Light Gymnasium over the past five years or so, some great games. Ithaca has always had the go-to players and role players but never really put it all together. After seeing Friday's scrimmage and seeing the new offense (10 times better than the old offense) Ithaca looks like a legit contender to take the E8 this year. The offense gets a lot more shots off and a better selection of shots for the players on the floor. Everyone seems to be in the right spot.

Morrisville battled with Ithaca in both 20 minute periods, hung around for about ten minutes in both periods but then Ithaca kicked it into another gear with their offense. Ithaca also struggled when Morrisville through a little zone at them. They also struggled to guard some of Morrisville's players (Morrisville is much improved from a year ago) but will not face that much athleticism in conference play.

Ithaca went with Burton and Ruffrage in the back court with Scanlon Leahy and Brown in the front court to start the scrimmage.  Rogers, Kail, Ruger and Cruz came off the bench to provide most of the rest for the starters along with a few minutes from junior newcomer Gianni Martera backing up Burton. 

Tom Brown was very dominate down low especially early on, good moves, a few put back AND1s and a couple of jumpers. Looked much bigger from freshman year campaign and more polished down low too. I think all the Tom Brown naysayers will be eating their words when they see him play. Burton and Leahy shot very well. In the first period Burton started a run with a few shots and Ithaca took over from that point. Got quality minutes from freshman Matt Ruger and I see a lot of potential in freshman Chris Cruz. Scott Ruffrage also looks much more comfortable on the floor this season and Dom Scanlon as well. Good minutes off the bench from Brendan Rogers and Louis Kail and solid play from everyone in what would have been in my estimation a 25-30 point win if played like a game. 

[FisherDynasty]

GoBombers, I guess i used the wrong word in overachieve.

How come jim mullens is viewed as such a bad coach? I always thought ithaca played as good as they could with the talent. They always play physical good D, and switched up there looks a lot.  Yeah bostic and burton are good players but they were only fresh and sophmores its tough to win a league being that young. and before them they only had jim bellis. I think now that the team is older they will have a much better year than in past years and make a run at the league title instead of barely squeezing in the tourny.  However, i think that givin the size and quality of ithaca college i think they should be able to recruit much better players then they do that may be mullens weakness.  But i never played for him and dont even know him so who am i to judge.

[sjfcards]

As far as fisher, saw some of the scrimmage against medaille. This is going to be a team that definitely peaks at the end of the season similarly to last year.  They are going to struggle scoring at times  but dont think they will go 0-2 against any team in the conference.  They are going to lose more games then normal and probably disapoint a lot of people come conf. tourny time if they make it. 

I think you hit the nail on the head with the Fisher team. I think this year will be a lot like last year. They have some questions that need answering in the first few weeks of the season, and it may take some time for the answers to really be answered. I think as they go Kornaker will make certain changes and tweak the lineup to find a group that works, and by the end of the season, Fisher will have a formula that works.

I agree that they will lose a few more games than normal, but I think by the time the trourny rolls around they will be right there for another E8 tourny title. Every year I think that Fisher may be a little down, but I have not seen much to prove that right.

[gobombers15]

GoBombers, I guess i used the wrong word in overachieve.

How come jim mullens is viewed as such a bad coach? I always thought ithaca played as good as they could with the talent. They always play physical good D, and switched up there looks a lot.  Yeah bostic and burton are good players but they were only fresh and sophmores its tough to win a league being that young. and before them they only had jim bellis. I think now that the team is older they will have a much better year than in past years and make a run at the league title instead of barely squeezing in the tourny.  However, i think that givin the size and quality of ithaca college i think they should be able to recruit much better players then they do that may be mullens weakness.  But i never played for him and dont even know him so who am i to judge.

It's not necessarily that he is a "bad" coach as much as it is his inability to keep the team on a consistent plane. The "ups" are very good and the "downs" are pretty bad. It seemed that a complacency had set in around the program, like it was ok to consistently finish conference play at a game or two above .500 and be easily dispatched in the E8 semis each year. I'm not arguing that they were better than Fisher or Utica in the past few years, but there were opportunities to get a couple wins against those programs that Ithaca let get away.

As far as his coaching goes, when I was a student there, Mullins made what I viewed as a lot of dumb decisions. For instance, there were several times when he went to a four-corners offense with over three minutes to play when his team was nursing a lead in the neighborhood of 3-7 points. It's like he was saying "please clock, run out before the other team comes back on us." That's just too early to go to that offense, especially when the point guard was Jon Whetstone who, bless his heart, was not an offensively gifted player, by any means. The play would be Whetstone firing a contested 18-foot jumper as the shot clock expired. I can't tell you how many leads IC blew or almost blew because of this tactic. There were times when Ithaca was leading at halftime and a friend would turn to me and say "do you think Mullins is going to go to the four-corners coming out of the locker room." That's obvious hyperbole, but the fact we were joking about it is telling.

Some are of the opinion that many talented players leave the program before they even get a crack at the varsity team. I do think there is some merit to that. A lot will be learned this year. There are no excuses now. Brown and Ruffrage seem to be developing, the Big 3 will get theirs, and Ithaca seemingly always has at least one freshman who steps in and contributes immediately. Stevens lost their top player, Fisher seems to be vulnerable for the first time in awhile, and Utica has some big shoes to fill with the departures of Bryant and Lighthall. If IC doesn't win a regular season championship or an E8 Tourney in the next two years, I'm not sure they ever will.

[Cyclone0205]

GoBombers..minor correction.

Stevens actually got back their best player (Williams).  He didn't play last year, but will play this year.  The only players they lost were the starting point guard and starting center from last year (who this kid Williams will replace).

As far as Ithaca, I saw them play last year and the thing I came away with was that they have the talent to compete with most of the teams in this league but they randomly, as players, did things on the court that were head scratchers.  I'm sure every team has that but given how good some of their players could look, their lapses seemed a bit more obvious.  They would play well and then have stretches that i didn't know if they were attributable to youth or coaching.  I haven't seen enough to know about consistancy over the course of a year but i could see inconsistancy in the few games that i guess mirrors it.

[gobombers15]

GoBombers..minor correction.

Stevens actually got back their best player (Williams).  He didn't play last year, but will play this year.  The only players they lost were the starting point guard and starting center from last year (who this kid Williams will replace).

I do remember hearing that. I was basing my statement on their stats from last year. Williams missed all last season, correct?

[Cyclone0205]

Yeah, he missed all of last season.

[JQV]

injury?

[triplethreat]

The coaches pre-season poll in my opinion is pretty accurate.  I would probably flip flop Ithaca and Utica making it a Fisher, Stevens, Naz, and Utica E8 tournament.  Stevens will come in and win the conference in their first year with Naz winning the conference tournament.  Just opinion.