Empire 8

[Chief1101]

not new...been around long enough to know that stevens is much better than ithaca..and that bostic is overrated and extremely soft..

[AUPepBand]

watch it be in jersey....


tim williams will dominate any big man inside..his numbers are not great because he doesnt take that many shots..but he will dominate...


and farid is still top 5 all around players in the league..forget that he was an honorable mention all american last year...


so beat it with it not being jersey...

You taking that to the bank?

[Caz Bombers]

whats your take on the league caz?

It's pretty easy to tell when someone is new here.  He's going to quickly learn that asking one of the Ithaca fellas an open-ended question like this means you need to clear up your afternoon to read the response.

Naah, Bamm, you know it's just GB15 that likes to write the dissertations.  I try to get to the point.

Bostic overrated...I kinda tend to agree and have for a while.  His basketball motor just doesn't seem to rev that high.  You'll have that when you've been slamming around in football pads since August every year.  If he focused on hoops he has the physical tools to really dominate (height, athleticism, etc.) but he's still a tremendous asset to IC athletics as a two-sport star.

I'm picking Stevens to lose at Utica and Ithaca and the Naz home game is a toss-up.  The edge on that one goes to the Ducks b/c Naz has consistently failed to win big road games for years.  Then again this is the most talented Naz team in forever.  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and since I won't be at any of these games I sure as hell won't complain about refs

[Cyclone0205]

I mostly agree...however, I don't see Stevens losing both Ithaca and Utica on the road.  I can guarantee they'll lose one of those games, but not both of them.  I'd say most likely they beat Utica on the road, but not Ithaca.  I know the Utica game at home ended up 60-59, but remember Stevens was a) up 11 at the half and b) played that entire game without the injured Passalacqua, who is really their only weapon from behind 3 and one of the better shooters in the league.  Him missing played a big role in the game, because Stevens isn't very deep and had to start Baker, which killed the depth even more.


I do think they'll lose that Ithaca game because I think they should have lost to them in Hoboken.  I see Stevens goin 4-1 down the stretch in league, because I don't think Naz will get the same game out of Canori they got the first time around and McAdam is just getting back into action so I don't know how effective he will be.

[jasper]

watch it be in jersey....


tim williams will dominate any big man inside..his numbers are not great because he doesnt take that many shots..but he will dominate...


and farid is still top 5 all around players in the league..forget that he was an honorable mention all american last year...


so beat it with it not being jersey...

Yeah Williams really dominated last night eh chief, He had about as many fouls as he did points. Farid really lit it up too......Stevens is decent but not any better than Naz, Ithaca or Fisher. They're highschool teams in the Rochester area that could Elmira a good game.

[Chief1101]

take it easy jasper..

decent?...dont get me wrong, im not a stevens grad or anything like that, im actually a liberty league fan..but stevens is not decent..they are better than decent..1-5 they stack up with every team in the e8 and for the most part, they are better..

farid has struggled this year, but hes good for assts and rebs, even when hes struggling from the field..he is undersized and he outbattles big men in the e8...


williams does foul a lot, but once again you have to remember, he is not the main focus of his team...gray and farid are..if he got enough touches, hed averaged 20 easily..passalaqua was hurt all season, finally sat out and is starting to get his stroke back...


ithaca has burton, but beyond that they are soft...bostic may be a great football player, but he is soft in the post...stevens has 2 or 3 big men off the bench, although not very talented, they are big bodies that throw weight around..in the postseason thats what you need..they have experience...

you beat ithaca by stopping burton...naz is very good, ur right...but stevens is better..

and fisher is nowhere near what they usually are...


and its one game their buddy..williams stats are good this year...the funny thing bout this site is that none of you know stevens at all so you think by looking up stats it tells the whole story..it doesnt, and many people will tell you that..stats arent everything..farid may be strugglin but he still is a main focus of many teams so they lay off other guys...also baker off the bench is a starter on any other team..his stats arent great but he changes games with his D...

[WICB Sports]

Radio coverage of Tuesday's Empire 8 basketball games at the Ben Light Gymnasium begins at 5:40 p.m. with Bombers Shootaround on vicradio.org.  At 6 p.m., Josh Canu and Zach Tomanelli have the call of the women's contest between Ithaca and RIT.

At 7:40 p.m., Bombers Shootaround begins before the men's game on 91.7 FM and www.wicb.org.  Robert Schroeder and Michael Polak have the call of the game at 8 p.m. on WICB.

[FisherDynasty]

Chief, I have to agree with you on that one, this board does rely and put too much emphasis on stats.  If you followed fisher at all the past 5 years, there are rarely standout scorers, rebounders etc, because across the board 1-5 on the court were all very good.  I have seen steven play one time when they beat naz, they reminded me very much of the sweet 16 Utica team, although I think they are a little bit better.  I think they are the 2nd best team talent wise behind naz with a healthy ryan mcadam, however, i think they are a better team bc naz lacks D and good coaching.  Fisher is behind on talent this year, however, when smalt and beigel are healthy and don't get into foul trouble I think they are the best team.  Ithaca is good but I think they are a year away still, i tihnk they will make the tournament possibly get a win, then lose out do to too much reliance on Burton.  Leahy is good but soft and I was never extremely impressed with bostic.  I think the experience of Stevens will go along way at the end of the year and into the post season.  Its hard to imagine fisher not making the ncaa tournment for the first time in a while, but im not sure if they have the leadership, consistency or depth this year.  Sadly, if they don't make it this year, they may not make it for a while as they have not recruited extremely well that past few years.

[gobombers15]

Easy there, fellas. I tend to write longer posts b/c there are many stupid things said on these boards that need to be addressed. It's quality over quantity. Instead of writing three two-paragraph posts in a day, I condense. Excuse me for being efficient. C'mon Bamm, things can't be too crazy over at Key, you have time to read.

Anyways, Chief, buddy, pal, calm down over there. Take a few deep breaths. Now, relax about Williams. He got schooled by Carson. As bombersquadron said, Williams and Bostic didn't even check each other in their game so there was not head-to-head matchup in that game. Bostic is a 4 (Kail and Brown play the 5), Williams is a 5. Besides, Williams is likely a second team guy.

You need to stop trying to defend these close wins vs Elmira. You're better off just saying "we played two awful games, but luckily we got W's." You're not convincing anyone that Elmira is any good. Ever. We all know they've improved, but they're still a doormat for the top teams. Ithaca was beating them 56-20 with 5 minutes to go in last Tuesday's game, for crying out loud.

You mention that beef inside wins post-season games. Maybe. But I'll tell you what loses post-season games: bad FT shooting, and 58.5% isn't going to hack it. I'd love to hear what about a FT% statistic is misleading. I think they'd love your posts on firejoemorgan.com (best website ever for those who don't know).

[gobombers15]

Too much reliance on stats is a bad thing if done within a vacuum. Otherwise, numbers are a great indicator of what happens. You guys are the same people who would vote Don Mattingly into the HOF b/c his nickname had the word "baseball" in it.

[bamm]

C'mon Bamm, things can't be too crazy over at Key, you have time to read.

Oh, I read them.  I think it's only fair that if I'm subjected to your essays I get to poke fun at your complete inability to be brief.  I enjoy that you consider that "effecient." Well played.  I think my steadfast refusal to take advantage of the "emoticons" the D3Hoops.com board provides for us may have doomed the tone of my message.

Pretty brutal Tuesday night road-trip to Ithaca for RIT.  This game, of course, is book-ended with last weekend's game at Naz and this weekend's game at Stevens.  Tough week for the Tigers.

As to the Stevens versus everyone discussion -- I think it's pretty cool how open this season is.  Three serious contenders for the league title (Stevens, Naz, Ithaca), one wild card (SJF), and three teams that can beat any of the rest of them (RIT, Utica, Hartwick). 

It should be a fun month.

[e8bballfan]

what kind of injury is passalacqua coming off?

[Cyclone0205]

Passalacqua is either an ankle or foot injury.  People at the Elmira game said he had a little bit of a limp while running so that's my guess.

As for the whole Stevens v e8 convo, here's my 2 cents:

1)  I think Naz and Ithaca are the only teams in conference that can beat Stevens in Hoboken.  I know Ithaca lost but I think with Burton they would have won that game.  Naz is this weekend so we'll see.  I'll put money on Stevens because Naz doesn't travel well, but I think on any given night they can beat them.  Even though Fisher beat them at Fisher, I don't think it'll be much of a game in any rematch in Hoboken.

2)  I said it on here (after seeing them play and lookin over some good stats provided) that Williams is 2nd team all e8.  I do think he's much better than Bostic, because 1 on 1 there isn't a big in the conference who, without help, will stop Williams from scoring.  Williams' problem is that he fouls WAY too much, thus limiting his production.  That plus he is the Curtis Sumpter of a nova style offense from a few years back (Nardi, Foye, Ray, Lowry) so the guards dominate the ball. 


3) For starters, let me say that Stevens looked pathetic in both Elmira games and in no way am I defending their PLAY.  HOWEVER, for Jasper putting so much weight on Stevens playing Elmira close...what does that prove?  Basketball is as much a game of matchups as it is talent.  Stevens has one three point shooter against a team that plays a lot of zone against them.  Naturally that game is going to be close.  However, you cannot use the logic that "Oh, they didn't blow out Elmira" to mean that they are worse than the teams that do blowout Elmira.  That makes no sense...ex:  If you have one big and 4 kids who shoot the lights out of the ball but can't take anyone off the dribble, you will probably kill a team that plays all zone against you.  However, you will get killed by an old school Arkansas style in your face team that pressures.  Stevens matches up better with Naz and Ithaca, teams that will run with them and play man to man, because that's the style of play they prefer.  If you slow them down, you will give them trouble.  So, if you mean Stevens isn't better than Naz, Ithaca, or Fisher based on head to head matchups with each other, that's fine and a valid opinion, but using the Elmira game as a barometer is clueless.

[bamm]

Cyclone -- Very thoughtful, not emotional, and though I don't agree with all your points, very well done.  +k

[bombersquadron]

not new...been around long enough to know that stevens is much better than ithaca..and that bostic is overrated and extremely soft..

Bostic is not soft, you haven't seen him enough to know how he plays. Bostic is not a fiery player, he doesn't go out and yell and scream, he doesn't  have to be the team's alpha male. I am sure part of it has to do with coming from football in november when the team has already been playing for a month of practice and been playing pick-up and working out since semptember. When i played he always had a hard time adjusting not just with his legs but feeling comfortable with the guys and on the floor.

However Bostic does have a ton of heart and is very clutch. As a freshman he averaged 10 and 7 in seven starts, the last seven games of the year, if i remember correctly. He went on to dominate the ECAC toruney that year and capture the MVP along with leading Ithaca to the chip. (All as a freshman). He had the game winning lay-up and had 16 and 13 in that championship game.

Last year in the ECAC he had 20 and 13 vs RPI and 15 and 16 vs Vassar. He had five double doubles last year with four coming in the last five games. Bostic was first team Empire 8, with 15.5 ppg (5th in conf.) 7.6 rpg (3rd) and second with 41 blocks. Right now he is 12th in PPG 13.1, 1st in rebounds with 10.1 per game. Shooting 53% form the floor for 8th in the conference. Second in blocks with 20.

Knowing Bostic he is just not a vocal player, and doesn't usually show emotion. However, he does have heart and as of late has been becoming more of a leader.

ithaca has burton, but beyond that they are soft...bostic may be a great football player, but he is soft in the post...stevens has 2 or 3 big men off the bench, although not very talented, they are big bodies that throw weight around..in the postseason thats what you need..they have experience...

Ithaca is not soft, they might be leading the Empire 8 in flagrant fouls. They have two big bodies down low in Brown and Kail. Rogers is another tough kid who always go to the basket hard and plays tough, hard nose D. Ruff is another tough kid who makes great hussel plays, plays solid D and gets on the offensive glass. Burton is also a tough. Ithaca gets a bad rap because people think Leahy and Bostic are soft. They aren't soft, the both play hard, have heart and are clutch, very far from soft. Last year Leahy had a game winning basket versus Utica and he just killed RIT with the shot at the buzzer. I already spoke on Bostic.

2)  I said it on here (after seeing them play and lookin over some good stats provided) that Williams is 2nd team all e8.  I do think he's much better than Bostic, because 1 on 1 there isn't a big in the conference who, without help, will stop Williams from scoring.  Williams' problem is that he fouls WAY too much, thus limiting his production.  That plus he is the Curtis Sumpter of a nova style offense from a few years back (Nardi, Foye, Ray, Lowry) so the guards dominate the ball. 

I have already stated that Bostic did not gaurd Tim Williams. I'll give you the point that Williams played better in that game but that was Bostic's worst game of the year. I don't know if it was the travel or being early in the season but he played bad.

For everyone who saw that game you know he matched up with Gray. Gray is a super athlete and so is Bostic, so Bostic took him in the match-up. Just like Bostic gaurded Gethers not Carson. Bostic always goes with the other teams athletic player, he even guarded McAdam and Canori when Ithaca played Naz. Bostic has never had to match-up with Bigs. He never gaurded Bacon or McSweeney either. Ithaca states he is the center but that goes to Kail and Brown, who gaurd every other teams bigs.  That has nothing to do with heart either, he matchs up better with other teams athletic 2, 3 or 4. They can put Leahy on taller guys and use Kail and Brown for the center. Everyone who has seen Ithaca plays knows this so you can't call Carson/Williams/Smith/Etc. vs. Bostic a head to head match-up because they barely go head to head. Those guys can't gaurd bostic cause he can step out and hit a 15 to 17 footer and also go by a slow big man.