Empire 8

[FROMAFAR]

I'm not sure about that Pat. Alfred may be right now, but Stevens seems to be on a roll and nationally ranked for the better part of last year and some of the previous year. They have a good returning group. I think this is a step up in many cases, not for all, but for many of those names mentioned. Look at Loeffler, he moves on in two years, with ateam he really didn't put together. That being said, they probably should hire Bobby Hurley, the assistant. He was involved in putting this team together. But what do I know?

[Pat Coleman]

And what was Stevens before this?
And what did Stevens do in moving from an awful league to a mediocre league?
Stevens is a long way from being a prime job in Division III. It is not better than DePauw, not better than Centre, not better than Hamilton and probably not better than St. John Fisher. That's why I said not better than "many."

[FROMAFAR]

I'm certainly not going to carry Stevens torch, no reason to, BUT to be fair just the fact that you ask what Stevens WAS before this, means they must be something NOW. Those other programs have had their ups and downs, and your giving them props based on their ups. Well Stevens is now up, therefore I am giving them the props you give the other programs. As you state Stevens moved up in Conference affiliation, albeit from awful to mediocre, (your words). DePauw and Centre, you MAY be right, but Hamilton and Fisher, I can't agree. A coach looking to advance would certainly like to take over a program on the upswing, rather than the opposite, and Stevens seems to be in a location and have the advanced curriculum to attract some good recruits. Hey, then again, what do I know. Your the Guru...   

[FROMAFAR]

I forgot to answer the question as to what Stevens did in moving to the E-8. They finished tied for 1st......    I can't believe I'm battling for Stevens...... But I guess what's right is right...  

[JQV]

DePauw and Centre, you MAY be right, but Hamilton and Fisher, I can't agree. A coach looking to advance would certainly like to take over a program on the upswing, rather than the opposite, and Stevens seems to be in a location and have the advanced curriculum to attract some good recruits. Hey, then again, what do I know. Your the Guru...   

I'd take a closer look at Hamilton before making this argument.

To me, Fisher is what it is because of Kornaker but that is at least a good job because the Administration is clearly prepared to support the Athletic Department.

I am with Pat, I think Stevens is just an ok gig that had a good class come through.  If I were sending out coaching resumes, Stevens might not be in my top 5 wish list for NYS (I know, its in NJ, but since its in a NY based conference I just lumped it in) jobs.

[Ethelred the Unready]

]

I'd take a closer look at Hamilton before making this argument.

[/quote]

Especially if there is any truth to the rumor that Hamilton is looking at full NESCAC participation.

[FROMAFAR]

Hey guys, nobody here is trying to compare programs.. I did not bring up Hamilton or anyone else for that matter. I respoded to Pat Coleman mentioning the other colleges and comparing to Stevens program. My point is simple.. Stevens 5 years ago was nothing in basketball.  Their record has gotten better each year, they went to the sweet sixteen two years ago, and won the ECAC this year. They tied for first in the E-8 thier first year in. Their coach, took a step up after two years. They look like they may be as good this coming year.  That being said, and the fact that their academics are one of the best in the country, and where they are located, it looks pretty enticing to me..... No one has to agree or disagree, it is what it is... 

[JQV]

That being said, and the fact that their academics are one of the best in the country

I was telling you to check Hamilton's academic profile but, since you didnt get that, I will help you out:

Hamilton average student:

Critical Reasoning: 680-750
Math: 660-740
Writing: 670-750

84% in the top 10% of their high school graduating class.

Stevens average student: (I couldn't find it on Stevens' site but found these same numbers in a few places)

The average SAT score of Stevens is 1380 and 50% of the undergraduates come from the top 10% of their high school classes with an average high school GPA of 3.8. The average SAT score of the students in the Accelerated Pre-Medical program is 1430.

Not sure any of that means anything for Athletics.

[Pat Coleman]

Hey guys, nobody here is trying to compare programs..

I think we all are, including you.

[FROMAFAR]

If you say so..........I guess I'm going to carry the Stevens torch for awhile...

[superman57]

Jose, I will agree that Fisher is where it is because of Kornaker, but If every coaching job in the E8 was open I would rank it as follows. (please note this is not based on the last year or two but more broadly)
1) Fisher-They have always had a good basketball team, and the adminstration sees winning sports as a good thing.
2) Ithaca-Great academics, new buildings on the way, and the class of the E8 in almost every sport
3) RIT-again great academics, solid all around sports. D3 is all about getting a good degree, and you will certainly get that from RIT
4) Stevens-same great academics, they have had success the last couple of years, will be curious to see where they will go with a new coach, but you do have to read into why would the coach leave for a low leval d1 assitant coach unless the adminstration wasn't overly supportive.
5)Utica-came off a couple of strong years and a sweet 16 berth, though the coaching decision is certainly a head scratcher and will be interesting to see if they can keep of the success.
6) Naz-an up and comming school, good academics and could defintaly compete for the next several years.
7) Hartwick-well there is not much seperating these bottom 3 teams, but Coco Crisp is  potential savior for this program if they can continue to recruit like him
8 and 9) really no difference between Alfred and Elmira,

[FisherDynasty]

History alone within d3 basketball puts stevens very far behind, i believe 2 years ago was stevens 1st ever Ncaa tourny appearance.  Fisher has the most ncaa appearances out of any team in the country over the past 17 years (13). and other e8 schools have been there more times than stevens as well.  Hamilton's basketball program is richer than both fisher and stevens. 

[Pat Coleman]

I think RIT and Stevens should be flopped in those rankings.

[superman57]

Pat not arguing here, but why do you think they should swap

[FROMAFAR]

 I guess listing the E-8 coaching positions creates some interesting conversation. I'm not sure we can can definitively say which jobs are more sort after than others with a few exceptions. I agree there are some that even some assistants wouldn't want. However any of the top 6 listed would be attractive to ANY assistants out there, and of course head coaches from obvious lower programs. However I don't think someone would apply for the Fisher job and not the Nazareth job ( used those two based on rankings below, #1 and #6). I think the post shows that all of the top 6 have some good things to offer for a coach. I believe the E-8 as a conference overall is on the upswing. We'll find out a lot about Fisher this year, since they lose quiet a bit. Since Ithaca basically remains intact, we can guage the other programs ability based on their match up with Ithaca compared to last year. Utica will be another interesting team to watch. I think the upgraded with the coaching change (my opinion), so we can watch how that plays out. You know my thoughts on Stevens, while I agree they came from out of nowhere, it's not like they have been bad, good and bad again.  They have risen consistantly over the last few years, despite the coaching changes. If we look at Stevens as a whole it appears ALL of their teams have been pretty successful over the same time period, which would show me support from the administration. I agree I can't figure Loeffler leaving for that job, BUT there may be more to it. It's location ( he's a Pennsylvania guy) or relationship to Lafayette staff? Who knows. RIT has always intrigued me. I can never figure them. There never an easy out yet they don't seem to get to the top.... The bottom three need GREAT recruiting classes to get them in the MIX. BUT they too can do it. It'll take some work...Look for the E-8 to a step better next year.....  Any word on any recruits to any of these programs/ Any word on candidates for coaches openings?