Empire 8

[FROMAFAR]

Bomber 79 etc., I think they will get into the top 10, mayyyyyybe 11.  Yest the games a t Stevens were very exciting and this girl Dudek, is the real deal.......The mens team could use her at the point. I agree, IC is balanced and can get awy with Leahy having a bad night....He plays about 30 minutes though, and that can be a disaster, that may be a reason why it was as close as it was.  Jordan Marcus came up huge and was the difference for sure. Funny thing in that game, someone ( can't re member who) missed a big Foul shot for IC late, and then get's the rebound and throws up a tough 3 right away (which didn't really make sense since IC was leading and this was a big possession) and he hits it.  That's not the funny part, that exact same thing that happened in the RIT game.... a late 3 thrown up with plenty left on the shot clock, and hit.....Both of those shots were huge.......I thought Burton held backa bit, ( he gets 20 and I think he holds back ) but he tried to get everyone involved and when Stevens went up 10 with about 7 and change left it looked tough for IC, but this is where they miss a point guard and court savvy.  At this point they needed to maximize their possesions and be smart. They did neither. I don't say slow it down, too much time, but someone has to get them the right shots. Also you need your point guard to be at least at least a 70% shooter, he cannot be a 50% shooter. This has cost Stevens many times..... Another interesting fact. RIT and IC played predominantly man to man. This is going to give Grey an opportunity to create. It will limit Passalaqua, UNLESS the D falls asleep.... then Passalaqua will burn you. RIT did not fall asleep, IC did. Hence Stevens scores in the 50's against RIT and score 80 against IC ( Bakers 2 three's and 23 was uncharacteristic.. he avg. about 8 a game) also increased the scoring....Much better to play a zone and give Passalaqua his 18 points, and hold Grey under 20... that's the formula.....But what do I know      

[FROMAFAR]

Sorry that was 70% Foul shooter not from the field.....Told you I know little.

[Cyclone0205]

FROMAFAR -


I agree that Stevens lack of point guard has, as we predicted, hurt them at times, but I think its more the part you mentioned about possessions as opposed to shooting.  If you look at the 06-07 NCAA Sweet 16 team, Morris was the starting point and only shot 58% from the line.  However, he finished a 30 game season with 142 assists against only 58 turnovers (less than 2 a game).  From your point guard, if you can get numbers like that, you are not only getting more possession, but probably better quality ones.


Would have loved to see Morris match up with Burton and McAdams.  He wasn't as much of an offensive threat that year, but he had a great back and forth battle with Andrew Olsen from Amherst in the Sweet 16 game.  If anything, it would have been good to watch him and Burton manage a game against each other.  I think this years Ithaca team probably beats the 06-07 Stevens team 6-4 in a 10 game showdown.

[FROMAFAR]

Cyclone great point about Morris. Also, I think you pointed out, when they began playing Greco and Morris together they created match up problems for the other team. Greco is actually a 1.5 rather than a pure 1. He can shoot and drives to finish. I think he would have made a difference this year as well. That would have given them a few other dimensions, like Baker around the hole a little more to help on the boards, (which he does well), and another outside threat as Greco could shoot. That would have forced more man to man against them, and open up Grey, and give two outside options....  I'm still trying to see what heappened there. My friends from Stevens, one is fairy young ( everyone young to me) has some ties with a few professors. The last I heard he was in school, however working on an intern program.  Supposed to be a bright kid..... Hey maybe he'll be back next year. That would certainly help them... But I really don't know.....  I digress.... Your right the shooting % becomes secondary... Good possessions make up for poor shooting. BUT your point guard has to shoot well from the line. While Morris couldn't shoot, he samrt enough to give it up in fouling situations and quite often Greco was in late just for that reason. But what do i know    

 

[sjfcards]

I was just cruising around the east region teams and I see that U of R and NYU already have 7 losses between them. It seems like the New York teams from the UAA, seem to be down a little bit this year (I know those teams are still really good, but compared to their usual lofty standards). I am starting to get the feeling that the E8 can have some success in the tourny if things keep going the way they are. I can see U of R missing the tourny with a tough UAA schedule still to go. NYU as well. Amherst is still crazy good, but they seem to be more human this year, than in previous years. And, the other NY conferences (SUNYAC and LL) don't seem to have a real strong team to contribute.

I wonder how that will effect the E8 team or teams that get in? Will they force the teams to play some stronger out of state competition in the first few rounds? How about IC hosting a regional as a 1 seed? And without other NY teams really stepping up, if the favorites in other conferences win their tournaments, could the E8 be a 3 bid league? (If RIT splits the rest of the way against IC and Fisher. Fisher gets at least one win out of the 3 with RIT and IC, and IC only loses to one of those teams) That leaves three teams with about 5 losses, something the other conference leaders have already. I know this is a best case scenario, but it will spark some conversation.

I don't think there is any doubt that the E8 is the best conference in NY this year (I am not counting the UAA in that, my point about U of R and NYU is just that they may not steal spots in the tourny that they have in the past). What does everyone think?

[owen]

I agree ("the E8 is the best conference in NY this year"). Can't speak for the Liberty League relative to E8; but SUNYAC teams have been taking a beating by both E8 and LL teams this year and it seems to be getting worse as the season progresses.

Currently SUNY is 4 wins 10 losses vs E8, also 4 wins 10 losses vs. Liberty. This '82 Potsdam alum is sad. Very, very sad.

[sjfcards]

It seems like some of the traditional powers in the sunyac are all having their down year at the same time. Brockport, Cortland, and Potsdam are just not what they have been the last few years. You can usually count on Brockport to be a 15-20 win team. Not sure what the reasoning is, but I am sure they will all turn it around. The programs have too much to offer to stay down for very long.

[e8bballfan]

New top 25 out. IC at 11, Fisher at 21. Way to rep the e-8 boys!

[sjfcards]

Good to see two teams in the top 25. I can't believe that IC is not in the top 10, but Fisher is about 3 spots higher than what I thought they would be. A pretty strong year for the E8 this year for sure.

[gobombers15]

I think the best case scenario for the E8 would be for Ithaca and Fisher to run the regular season table, with the obvious exception being a split between the two teams. Then for RIT to win the E8 Tourney. That gives RIT the auto bid. Ithaca would be 26-3 and a virtual lock for a Pool C. Fisher would be 22-4 and also a good candidate for a Pool C.

Also, surprised nobody is talking about RIT escaping at Hartwick, 59-58. What is it about the Hawks that gives RIT so many problems. This win broke a four game losing streak to Hartwick. It didn't look good early for RIT as Hartwick jumped on them, 15-2, in the first six minutes. Coco gave the Hawks a 58-57 lead with 25 seconds to go, but Marcus Lowe hit two FT's with 15 secs left to give RIT the lead back. Coco misses a 3-ptr at the buzzer. Game.

E8 Player of the Week: Ozell Franklin
E8 Rookie of the Week: Jordan Marcus

Anyone else notice that three Jordan's have already won Rookie of the Week? And all three have won it the last 3 weeks.

Jordan Marcus (IC): 9.6 ppg, 39.3% 3-pt%

Jordan Major (NAZ): 11.2 ppg, 35.5% 3-pt%

Jordan Gettings (SJF): 7.8 ppg, 2.9 rpg

Looks like they will each have great futures.

[Bombers798891]

Good to see two teams in the top 25. I can't believe that IC is not in the top 10, but Fisher is about 3 spots higher than what I thought they would be. A pretty strong year for the E8 this year for sure.

Yes although, Ithaca is closer to #6 than they are to #12, so if they can win vs. Elmira and Utica, they should crack it with ease. Given that Elmira lost to IC by 40 there seems to be a good chance of that  part happening, but maybe Utica will be tough at home. They've won five straight, so they are definately hot right now

[gobombers15]

Utica, so hot right now. Utica.

[FisherDynasty]

good points guys.

Sjfc, very good points on your analysis of the region. I think its an excellent year for anyone on the northeast to go far into the tourny.  The northeast seems to be down as well this year with amherst still being a very good team, are down vs past year. I dont really see any other teams that are completely standing out in the northeast this year.  Elms, mass dartmouth, and middleberry have good recordswith some good wins but im not sold on them yet. They also have bad losses some of them to teams in the east region. When you compare this years east/northeast region vs the west/midwest i think it is very lopsided with the west being much stronger.  I think its a great year for an e8 team to advance far possibly final 4 but once they get there it could get ugly.   Ithaca should have a descent shot at going far, I think fishers lack of experience and size will hurt them too much in the tourny.  I do think they will get in this year with an atlarge if they dont win the tourny.  The region overall is so weak, UofR might be able to squeeze in even with a large amount of losses.  The overall records this year for the teams so far in the east are very bad versus past years excluding fisher (I cant believe their record right now) and ithaca.  I think oswego will win the sunyac and if they do will be a tough match up for teams in the 1st round of the tourny same with hamilton/st. lawrence.  I think those 3 may be close to as good as ithaca talent wise.  As far as fisher, if they are hitting 3's they can also beat any of these teams, it just really sucks they are down about 4 people all who would get big minutes not even including the 3 bigs that transferred or quit at the end of last year or prior to the season starting. Once Dan evens 6'8 went down, matt haley 6'8 quit, kyle stevens 6'6 transfered to geneseo, and the other 6'7 wide body who had a lot of potential quit last year. I thought they were doomed.  Then through in anthony hall who was starting to fill up the box score and there best freshmen and starting 4 man going down with a torn acl they are still 12-2 playing mostly freshmen and sophmores.  It is pretty crazy. 

I think the e8 does have a shot at getting 3 in, gobombers put a pretty good example up for it to happen.  with the sunyac looking like only a 1 team bid, same with LL at this point and i think definatly only nyu or uofr will get in. e8 can fit 3 in.  typically sunyac has 2 sometimes 3, both nyu and uofr get int, e8 has had two past few years, and ll sometime 2.  I think e8 can get 3 in as long as both fisher and rit finish with 6 or less losses. 

Unfortunately this is ithaca's first really good year in a while therefore, they arn't in the top 10.  I think fisher deserves to be 21 do to their record and past success. Either way, great for e8 with two teams in.  Also, now that I have thought about it fisher lost there first game of the season to a ranked team. since then has gone 14-1 including wins over st. mary's #17 and UofR (always good to beat them), not too shabby.

[sjfcards]

I agree, it is pretty crazy that Fisher has been able to continue to win the way that they have this year. Although it is tough that they don't have a ton of size, I like what Kornaker is doing with what they have. It is like the undefeated season when instead of using one real solid big man, they switched to a "big man alliance". Take Wopperer's, Witte's, and Stearn's stats by themselves, eh not that impressive. Take their stats together and it is much more impressive.

I think Fisher is in a great spot to get an at large bid. Take the worse case scenario; Fisher loses to RIT again, loses to IC tiwce, and loses in the tourny. If they can avoid a loss to the other teams in the conference, they would be like 23/24 and 6. I think that would be enough to get in with a win against a ranked team and U of R. Plus some other teams not scooping up bids that they usually would (say a u of r, or an NYU?).

[FisherDynasty]

I agree I think they play to their strengths very well.  In the east region you can get by without bigs.  I think the are more comparable to the 2001 team with st. croix, berwanger, sidney, bennett, ripple and morely off the bench.  A lot of 6-3 to 6-5 guys who can penetrate and spread the defense.  The big man alliance the bigs were actually bigs with mcsweeney, zahn, hepburn, smalt, and beigel. Those players are  bigger than witte, stearn and wopperer.

But I think an at large bid is looking reat at this point.