Empire 8

[gobombers15]

Wow, the fourth best player on Utica would be on par with Sean Burton, huh? The word of the day is "hyperbole." The kid is going to finish with 1700 pts (more than Cichon). Burton will also be the leading assist guy in conference history by the end of the weekend, too. So the conference's all-time leading scorer and assist guy would only be the fourth best guy on a 23-7 team, huh? And Bostic, who may end up being a three-time 1st-team E8 player, is only on par with Jack Lighthall. Classic.

UCgrad, scouring the Ithaca student newspapers to create more nonsense. Really? That's where you are right now? And when we win the regular season conference, the conference tourney and win two games in the NCAA Tourney, what drivel are you going to run then?

Cichon scores 1500 career points, Herring scored 1,000, Lucas scored 1,000 while missing a full seasons worth of time, and Bryant scored 913 and had almost 500 rebounds in just two seasons. There isn't a team in the conference this year that will be able to say they had 4 players of that caliber on their roster at one time.

All 4 of them would have had even higher numbers if not for having spread the ball around to each other.

And IF Ithaca goes that far, I will congratulate them. I just don't see them as ready to do it yet.

This is my last post of the evening on this topic. Even though I'm a lawyer, even I get tired of arguing after awhile. The bolded part above.

-Burton will finish with 1700 pts and 500 assists. Without looking, I'm guessing that puts him in pretty select company nationwide, and in a class of his own in this conference (with respect to Sean O'Brien who had a great career in his own right).

-Bostic will finish with 1200 pts, 800 rebs and 150 blocks, health permitting. All that in the equivalent of three seasons, considering he didn't play until the tail end of his freshman year and missed parts of his soph and junior seasons due to football commitments.

-Leahy has a pretty good shot at 1,000 pts in just 3 seasons. Not bad for a guy who's been a #3 option his whole career.

-Cruz will be The Guy after this season and is a virtual lock for 1,000 pts, and more likely 1,200 pts. The sky is the limit for him, especially if he puts on a little more bulk. He's in the mold of Jim Bellis, though slightly less athletic but is a little better shooter.

-Marcus will score 1,000, too. He'll be over 1/4 of the way there after his freshman season. And he's only going to get better.

[gobombers15]

Was impressed with Fisher tonight. I've got to admit, I'm very impressed with Matt Newman's growth as a player. He really turned it on at the end of last season and has impressed me this year when I've watched. I didn't expect him to end up having as good of a career as he did. Secondly, Ozell Franklin is going to be a stud in this league. He's already very good. I'm already touting him for 2010-11 E8 Player of the Year (Corey MacAdam in 2009-10).

Burton's cross-court pass to Leahy in the corner for 3 was a backbreaker. I, too, am surprised Kornaker didn't call timeout during Ithaca's late first half run. I suppose he was returning the favor for Mullins not calling timeout when Fisher was extending their first half lead.

[UCgrad45]

Wow, the fourth best player on Utica would be on par with Sean Burton, huh? The word of the day is "hyperbole." The kid is going to finish with 1700 pts (more than Cichon). Burton will also be the leading assist guy in conference history by the end of the weekend, too. So the conference's all-time leading scorer and assist guy would only be the fourth best guy on a 23-7 team, huh? And Bostic, who may end up being a three-time 1st-team E8 player, is only on par with Jack Lighthall. Classic.

UCgrad, scouring the Ithaca student newspapers to create more nonsense. Really? That's where you are right now? And when we win the regular season conference, the conference tourney and win two games in the NCAA Tourney, what drivel are you going to run then?

Cichon scores 1500 career points, Herring scored 1,000, Lucas scored 1,000 while missing a full seasons worth of time, and Bryant scored 913 and had almost 500 rebounds in just two seasons. There isn't a team in the conference this year that will be able to say they had 4 players of that caliber on their roster at one time.

All 4 of them would have had even higher numbers if not for having spread the ball around to each other.

And IF Ithaca goes that far, I will congratulate them. I just don't see them as ready to do it yet.

This is my last post of the evening on this topic. Even though I'm a lawyer, even I get tired of arguing after awhile. The bolded part above.

-Burton will finish with 1700 pts and 500 assists. Without looking, I'm guessing that puts him in pretty select company nationwide, and in a class of his own in this conference (with respect to Sean O'Brien who had a great career in his own right).

-Bostic will finish with 1200 pts, 800 rebs and 150 blocks, health permitting. All that in the equivalent of three seasons, considering he didn't play until the tail end of his freshman year and missed parts of his soph and junior seasons due to football commitments.

-Leahy has a pretty good shot at 1,000 pts in just 3 seasons. Not bad for a guy who's been a #3 option his whole career.

-Cruz will be The Guy after this season and is a virtual lock for 1,000 pts, and more likely 1,200 pts. The sky is the limit for him, especially if he puts on a little more bulk. He's in the mold of Jim Bellis, though slightly less athletic but is a little better shooter.

-Marcus will score 1,000, too. He'll be over 1/4 of the way there after his freshman season. And he's only going to get better.

We will have to agree to disagree. Burton is no Ray Bryant. 4 years of Ray and he would be pushing 2000 and 1000.  Cichon puts Leahy to shame. Herring is a much better player than Cruz, and Bostic and Willie Lucas were very similar, missing virtually the same amount of PT. Collier and Lighthall managed to combine for over 1000 despite being 5th and 6th options. Bryant and Cichon played semi-pro (not the lame movie, which I was disappointed with).

Herring, the 4th option, will score 1500, around 500 assists, and 450 rebounds.

[Bombers798891]

Bombers continue to show why they are ranked in the Top 10. Another tough road test, another scrappy win. Burton just keeps putting up 20 points a night. What strikes me about him is the amazing consistency he has. Never scoring fewer than 12 points in a game and only twice scoring under 16. That sort of steady play has been the key for Ithaca this season. And to come from behind on a team that desperately needed a win just shows how resilient this team is. And once again, the team's ability to hit free throws makes a difference.

Continues to look like RIT-Ithaca will decide this conference, as the Tigers roll over Alfred tonight. Nazareth moves into a tie for fourth as Corey McAdam posts a triple-double. My only concern with Naz is that they may be up to their old tricks on defense. 56 points in a half against Elmira?

I'd like to put Stevens in the mix for #4, but they're a game behind everyone at this point and I'd suspect their two games against RIT and Ithaca on the road will be the end for them.

Who takes the four spot is a mystery. Right now, Utica's got the inside track. Naz still has games against RIT and IC remaining, although they did beat the Tigers once. Here's how I see it going down:

Naz: Gets SJF at the right time, and will handle Elmira again. Likely to lose to both RIT and IC, but if they can get by Alfred, would be 8-7 in conference with the Utica game left out

Utica: Should top both Hartwick and Elmira with ease. If SJF isn't back on track, could beat them handily, but they have to go on the road against a team that beat them. Also have to go on the road and play Stevens and Alfred. I think they'll take 2 of 3 and will be 9-6 in conference with the Naz game to go.

So it may come down to the winner of the Naz-Utica game. Personally, I'd rather see Naz. It's hard to tell how good Utica would be on the road. They got it to 7 against Ithaca in the 2nd half, but it got to 14 less than 2 minutes later and never went closer than 11 after that. Nazareth was never in their game at IC. Utica didn't look terribly great against RIT on the road either.

I think Utica will take that final spot, which isn't all that bad. They spent 36 minutes trailing a full-strength IC team and trailed by double-digits most of the time.

[Bombers798891]

Uhhh, what? Not a shot at Ithaca at all.

WHOOOOOOOSH. Neither was mine.



FWIW, UC was only down by 3, and a few seconds later there was a score on the other end. Considering that I kept the running score complete with times, I know what I am talking about.

Trahms didn't say a word on the Tech. The ref explained that he didn't like the "push" on the foul. That was his explanation to the coach and the table. His crew mates didn't agree with him.

And last year, Naz did get the win early in the season from the same Ref who hoses UC out of at least 1 game a year, usually the only one he does. UC outscored them by over 20 from the field. It was something like a 28-5 differential in ft's in a 2 point game. UC proved they were the better team when they smoked them the second time around. Regardless, this is nothing but posturing on your part.

This has nothing to do with the fact that IC looked like two different teams in those halves. Rather than get angry over someone pointing out a concern that I bet even IC's own coaches have, take off your blue and gold glasses.


And bombers, anyone that was there knows that this game was a lot closer than it looked. I understand that gobombers gets his panties in a bunch when someone point out facts he doesn't like. The simple fact is, if UC had made their FT's and taken care of business, it was a different game at the end. That isn't taking anything away from IC, just stating a fact.

Sure it would have been a different game if they could hit free throws. Of course, if Ithaca wasn't missing a guy averaging 11.9/11.4, it would have been a different game as well. But that doesn't warrant a discussion from you does it? The Bombers missing their third-leading scorer and leading rebounder? 

You want a fact? Here's a fact. Utica shoots 65% from the free throw line on the season. They took 11 free throws in the game. If they had hit on 65% of them, they would have made 7. Instead, they made 5. That's two points. Two. You can give them to Herring. He was 0-3 and usually is good on 64%. There you go. Straight up facts. Utica was 5-11 from the line, and their season percentage usually is around 7-11. Take the two points if they mean that much to you. You'd still be playing the "What if" game trying to scrape together a win from that. That's a fact.

Ithaca won that game, in part, because of their free-throw shooting ability.  But free throw shooting is a skill just like any other. A skill that apparently, Utica players don't have, at least in comparison to the Bombers. To say, "Well if Utica could hit their free throws" is easy to say, but Utica's not very good at shooting them. Ithaca is. Sean Burton and Brendan Rogers are two of the best free throw shooters in the conference. Maybe if they'd have gone to Utica, the Pioneers would have won that game. We can play the what if game all day if you want, but since you like facts, here's a few:

Ithaca beat Utica twice.
Ithaca has a significantly better record than Utica
Ithaca is in the Top 10
Utica is not.
Utica will have to fight just to sneak in the E8 tournament, in hopes of getting a backdoor invite to the NCAA's.
Ithaca would have to lose out to miss out, and even then, they'd probably make it.
Ithaca is a better basketball team than Utica. Free throws and all.

And what does any of your irrelevant ranting have to do with the fact that IC struggled and looked like a different team in the second half when they were forced to play back to back games for the first time all season?

Pointing that out is a far cry from suggesting whatever it is you think I am suggesting. Typical Ithaca fan.

Typical UC fan, ignoring facts that weaken his argument. Jeff Bostic would have made no difference in that half I'm sure. You state your desire for facts and then ignore ones that don't support your position.

I was addressing your earlier point that if UC had hit their free throws, they'd have been in the game. Which isn't true, because it didn't really have an effect on the score at all. They missed two more than they usually would have. If you're going to make claims, back them up with numbers.

Who cares that the Bombers looked like a "different team"? Every team is going to have games where they struggle, and yeah, the 2nd half of a back-to-back is one of those times. So what? Maybe it was because it was the second part of a back-to-back. Maybe it was because they were missing their 2nd best player. Maybe it's because Ithaca spends all their time on the road, and don't have the benefit of an home heavy schedule like you guys do. Don't teams usually play worse on the road than they do at home? Don't teams normally struggle when they're missing their 2nd-best player? You want to chalk it all up to a back-to-back, that's fine, but you'll excuse us if we want to discuss the possibility of their being other factors.

And maybe the lack of back-to-backs spells doom for some game in the NCAA's. You're right, we haven't seen Ithaca perform solidly in those. Of course, we also haven't seen a team come within 22 points of Ithaca at home, where a few of these NCAA games are likely to be played. Or is that another fact you want to ignore?

Hope to see you again in the E8 tournament!

[NaztyNate]

Jimmy Evans had 1100 points and nearly 300 assists in his 2 seasons at Nazareth. I would at least put him in that category with Burton. Although I only was around one of his 2 years he was easily one of the best players I have ever seen playmakers I have seen play in the E-8. Difference is he was 6'5 and playing out of position at the point.

[tigerfan2]

The biggest difference with Jimmy Evans is that he didn't make his team better. Sure he could score and did have some assists but with him, Maroney, and I believe Zablocky (or Lieska or whatever his name was) they had one of the most talented teams in the league and they didn't amount to anything. In the games I saw they never played as a team and even looked like they didn't really enjoy playing together. Overall they were a disappointment.

Of course with Daley coaching, that's par for the course. Naz always has talent yet always seem to underachieve.

[FROMAFAR]

First off, I was wrong about Fisher IC game.... I thought Fisher was through, but they have something left... Still lost but not by 18 as I predicted....I believe the first 3 spots are done.... 4th is interesting... Stevens needs to beat Utica, at home very doable... they need to beat Elmira away BE CAREFUL here, and Alfred at home, no problem.... Hartwick away, another problem..Then they need to pick off IC or RIT away... Don't think so...If they do all that they will have gone 5-1 the rest of the way they will have 9 wins... Extremely unrealistic.

So Stevens is basically done.... Now NAZ and Utica........ I'll go with UC and I believe # 4 is 8-8........what do I know

[FisherDynasty]

That Naz team was probably as talented as a team the e8 has seen  just couldnt put the pieces together mixed with bad coaching and lack of defense.

Jake Steck 6'2  - 4 time starting pg
Jimmy evans 6'5 - as good as anyone
Maroney - 6'6 d1 transfer from san diego athletic as anyone in e8
dave gary 6'5 - good role player
zablock 6'6 - beast in side
lasieka 6'6 - great post player with talented 6'9 ryan shiply to mix it up in there too

from the looks of last nights game it was the difference between a mature veteran ithaca team and a young fisher team.  The difference in free throws was also huge.  Fisher is really starting to miss their starting 4man and anthony hall.   Good win for Ithaca on the road, there chances of finishing the reg season without another loss is pretty good.  For fisher they have a tough road a head and my not make the e8 tourny unless they step it up.  It appears ithaca has the toughness to fight back and close out games this year which will be huge come tourny time.  However, im not 100% sold on how good they actually are as said before the area is so weak.  But it is what it is and hopefully they can advance to the sweet 16 or elite 8 having to face anyone really good.

[NaztyNate]

Dynasty while you are correct on many of your parents, Lisiecka and Maroney never played together. Lisiecka was gone the previous year, and Steck was the off guard, Evans played the point. Thats why I said he was playing out of position...... That team was an incredibly loaded team, but did play bad defense and it seems were sometimes poorly coached. That being said they went 22-6 (12-2 in the Empire 8, finishing second to a 13-1 Fisher team) and lost to RIT in the ECAC finals. They also won the Chase tournament beating U of R who was 14-1 and ranked # 2 in the country. This was in 2003 before the NCAA expanded the Division 3 field, so at large bids were few and far between. I say that was a very successful season.

RITfan before Evans got to Naz they had been losing every year since the Greg Dunne-Chris Pagan-Zach Wein era. While I dont think Evans did as much for his team that Dunne did he helped turn around a losing program going 17-10 and 22-5, scoring 1100 points with nearly 300 assists and led the conference in scoring and assists in back to back years (He was E-8 player of the year once and might have been twice had he not made some off court mistakes) while playing out of position. He definitely didnt do the intangibles that Dunne did in taking his team to the next level, but I still think he made his teammates a whole lot better.

Naz has won 3 in a row, sneaking up on the 4 seed. I guarantee you nobody wants to play them in the first round including Ithaca (year throw 122 points at me all you want, Naz is a much better defensive team now than they were then. They could be extremely dangerous as nobody has as good a 3-headed monster as Dihimer plus Mcadam squared......only problem is they have nobody else

[NaztyNate]

obviously I meant points not parents ^^^. please excuse the typo.

[FisherDynasty]

Nastynate, you are right about the rosters.  By no means was it not a successful season just a little disspointing based on the talent and not making the ncaa tourny.  Theres no way the fisher team consisting of the following:

Matt St. Croix   6'0 sr
Aarron Berwanging 6'2 sr
Nick Bennett  6'4 freshmen
Jeff Sidney 6'4 soph
Nick ripple 6'6 jr

should have taken the league that year.  although they were good, the're key contributers were fresh and soph plus berwanger

[NaztyNate]

Berwanger was not there (graduated with Lisiecka), and you are forgetting about the Mcgee brothers (Mike had a big freshman year) and of course debatably their best player that year in Matt Morley. The talent was extremely close and Fisher did the intangibles better.

[Bombers798891]

Berwanger was not there (graduated with Lisiecka), and you are forgetting about the Mcgee brothers (Mike had a big freshman year) and of course debatably their best player that year in Matt Morley. The talent was extremely close and Fisher did the intangibles better.

I suspect we'll know more about IC/Naz when they play again. If Naz turns it into a game, maybe. But if they get their doors blown off again...

The thing with that 122 point game was that IC cleared their bench off with about 7:30 to go, up 32 points. If they'd kept their starters in, it would have gotten worse. The thing that struck me was that Naz's defense wasn't able to get any stops at all and make any kind of a run in the 2nd half. It started with them down 21 and they never got closer than 16. With that offense they have, I mean, any sort of stop can lead to a run. But it wasn't there.

I said a few posts back that Naz had stepped up on defense, but IC is in a whole other offensive category. They are second in the NCAA's in scoring offense (Behind only Grinnell's system) and 4th in fewest turnovers. St. John Fisher allows only 60 points a game, which is one of the reasons they held the Bombers in the 70's. I'm hesitant to think that Naz can do the same.

But I've been wrong before. Any team that can score like Naz is dangerous, especially at home

[Razor]

The Alfred roster of the early 2000s was pretty loaded with talent as well.

G--Devon Downing--2x All American and over 2500 career pts.
F--EJ Doctuer--1x All-American and 1500pt. scorer
G--Willie Smith--Very good PG when healthy
F--Brock Stortini--Banger
C--Kareem McKinnon--All time leader in Blocks
G--Tanner Webb--Great Shooter
G--Rob Stedman--Great Shooter
G/F--Chris Koek--Excellent Defender/Role Player