Empire 8

[gobombers15]

Nazty, I'd love to play Naz in the E8 Tournament. That's no disrespect for Naz, but they get caught up in those freewheeling, high scoring games, which plays right into Ithaca's biggest strength. I don't think Daley is a good enough coach to keep them disciplined and avoiding that style which always seems too tempting for Naz to ignore. Naz hasn't beaten Ithaca in The Bulb since 2002-03 when they had the aforementioned Evens-Zablocki-Maroney-Steck crew. I'd take my chances against Naz.

[tigerfan2]

Razor makes a good point, AU was loaded those years as well. Injuries and bad coaching killed them.

Will Smith barely played due to injuries once they got Downey back. I don't think I ever saw them on court at the same time. If they were Smith could have pushed Downey to the 2-guard and that team would have been dangerous.
Doctuer and Stortini were injured a lot those years and missed stretches as well.

Nate, I don't recall the Dunne teams before Evans but I agree that Naz has always been talented but never lived up to potential. From the games I saw Evans played, I'd have to disagree about making his teammates better, they just all seemed disinterested since Evans was always dominating the ball. Granted what I saw was a small sample size.

Really when it comes down to underachieving teams at AU and  Naz there is one common trait, Absolutely aweful coaching. Too bad for AU they didn't have their new coach with the talent they had a few years back.

[NaztyNate]

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I dont see how you can lead the conference in assists AND win games and not make your teammates better. But to each his own.......

Bomber I think you are underestimating this Naz team just a bit. They are quite a better team than the one you saw a month ago. They were on the verge of winning the Chase after stomping RIT in round 1, and although they havent played much as far as competition lately, theyve won games on the road. I guess we'll see how they bounce back this Saturday in the East Ave. showdown.

[tigerfan2]

Fair enough Nate.
Part of my opinion of Evans is based on his on-court attitude and off-court problems but I agree he was a very good individual talent.

[Bombers798891]

East Region rankings came out today:

1. Ithaca
2. St. Lawrence
3. Hamilton
4. Rochester
5. RIT

No surprise with IC at the top. RIT slides in at #5

[gobombers15]

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I dont see how you can lead the conference in assists AND win games and not make your teammates better. But to each his own.......

Bomber I think you are underestimating this Naz team just a bit. They are quite a better team than the one you saw a month ago. They were on the verge of winning the Chase after stomping RIT in round 1, and although they havent played much as far as competition lately, theyve won games on the road. I guess we'll see how they bounce back this Saturday in the East Ave. showdown.

No underestimating at all. Look at posts before the season, I picked them to come in 3rd this year. I think the MacAdams' are very good players. DeHimer is an above-average big, too. It's not their personnel I have a problem with. It's the coaching. I'm not sure Daley can impose the discipline to keep Naz out of a run-and-gun game with Ithaca, a style that favors the Bombers (especially IF the game is played in Ithaca and they can start feeding off the crowd). I think Naz will give Ithaca a very tough game at Kidera. But if I'm Naz, I'm hoping against hope that a) I make the E8 Tourney, and b) RIT is their 1st round matchup because they know they can beat RIT and there's a lot of familarity between the two teams since they've played roughly 29 times in the past 4 years (or so it seems).

[Michigan452]

gobombers15, you are ridiculous to think that Ozell Franklin will be a future e8 player of the year.  The only way that would happen is due to the fact that the e8 is losing so many good players this year.  Franklin either goes 10-10 or 0-30 in games.  Either way he keeps shooting.  I would say next year it will be McAdam.  the year after that will be wide open.  But I would say that Brandon Witte or even Jordan Gettings will be an all league player for fisher.  Looking at other teams the league will really be down.  The Major kid for Naz will be really good by then to.  So lets not go jumping to conclusions just yet.  You know RIT and Stevens recruit around the country so they could bring in someone really talented also.

[gobombers15]

gobombers15, you are ridiculous to think that Ozell Franklin will be a future e8 player of the year.  The only way that would happen is due to the fact that the e8 is losing so many good players this year.  Franklin either goes 10-10 or 0-30 in games.  Either way he keeps shooting.  I would say next year it will be McAdam.  the year after that will be wide open.  But I would say that Brandon Witte or even Jordan Gettings will be an all league player for fisher.  Looking at other teams the league will really be down.  The Major kid for Naz will be really good by then to.  So lets not go jumping to conclusions just yet.  You know RIT and Stevens recruit around the country so they could bring in someone really talented also.

You can tell it's February because it's getting contentious in here and even harmless statements get tough responses. Didn't really think my Ozell Franklin comment would elicit such a response. I didn't say that he WOULD be the E8 POY in 2010-11, I just said that, as of this day and based on what I have seen, I think he may be. Or, alternatively, he'll be in the conversation. Obviously, I can't know such a thing over two years in advance. We have two years worth of players who aren't even enrolled in college yet. There are probably some freshmen playing limited minutes or buried on a bench who will come bursting on the scene. And Franklin certainly has some competition from the already productive freshmen and sophomores in this league. Please recognize the difference between a statement of fact and an educated guess.

Besides, it's not like that guess is coming out of left field. He was co-Rookie of the Year last year, he's in the top 5 of freshmen/sophomore scoring and, just as importantly, he'll be on a team that by then will be winning a lot of games; a fact that will hurt a lot of his statistical equals (DiPiazza from Elmira, Stopera and Kwiecen from Alfred, Blazek from Hartwick). There are several good freshmen who will also contend, as well as several good sophs like the aforementioned and Chris Cruz of Ithaca. Of course I don't know for sure who will win it. Did you expect Mark Carson to be a co-favorite at this point two years ago? But don't act like there's no basis to the opinion.

[Cyclone0205]

I have to agree with gobombers here.  When I saw Ozell as a freshman last year I thought by his senior season he'll be one of the better players in the conference.  The kid has ability, athleticism, and as mentioned, Fisher is usually one of the top teams.  As for his shooting woes, what is that supposed to prove?  Though in my opinion Ozell won't be as good overall, his shooting is no worse than Waleed Farid's from last season (less than 40% from field, less than 30% from 3) and there is no question that Farid was still in the conversation for e8 player of the year last year based on his overall numbers and the fact that Stevens was winning.


So in summary, the only thing ridiculous is saying that looking at what Ozell's done, and the fact that he's only a sophomore with 2 more years to play and *gasp* could have better shooting seasons than this one, has no chance of even being in the discussion two years from now.

[Michigan452]

Ok gobombers you have a point.  Maybe I was alittle to brash.  But I have to disagree with Cylone and comparing Franklin to Farid.  Farid did so much more than score.  He was a guard/forward who had above average rebounding, passing, and blocking skills also.  Franklin is primarily a scorer and his defense is still a huge question.  So I guess we will just have to see how things pan in next couple of seasons.

[sjfcards]

One thing that Franklin has going for him is just a rediculous amount of athleticism. He is strong, quick, and can jump out of the building. Looking at him last year, I thought he had a lot of potential, but made some very bad decisions. This year, I think he is making better decisions, but still takes some bad shots at times. I think with another year or two he will overcome the need to light up the scoresheet, and just let his talent do its thing. I don't see any reason that he would not have a great chance to be a POY at some point. He is just one of those matchup problems that come around every once in a while.

Interestingly, even tho Fisher has been at the top of the standings most of the time in the E8, they really have not had those totally dominant players that win POY. Don't get me wrong, they have had a few, but they seem to win more with team basketball than anything else. Sounds great on a chalkboard, but I would love to have a Sean Burton on the team next year.

[Cyclone0205]

Mich,

I specifically stated that Ozell will NOT be good as Farid overall.  My point was that Ozell's shooting will be no worse than Farid's during his senior year.

[FROMAFAR]

I could have a better shooting % than Farid..and I am blind.... I got to see Satevens quite a bit and Farid was an interesting player. he scored BUT shot too much, particularly 3's since he really couldn't shoot a 3... % was horrible. Had a lot of assists, BUT had way too many turnovers....... He got to the foul line a lot, but horrible Free throw %, the one thing I give him credit for is he could rebound for someone his size.  hey he came to Stevens when they had nothing and he was the man for 2 years... did what he wanted to, so when the Grey's, Greco's and Passalaqua's came along he really should have adjusted, but and not his fault, the coaches let him go.  Hey they went to sweet 16 and won ECAC, so props to him and those guys I just mentioned. Speaking of which, they lose Grey, and Passalaqua, as well as Baker after this year. I wonder if Greco will come back... I have been told he is in school and has a pretty good intern-ship going on... If he comes back, that would help the Ducks in that they don't have any points on the team now, and even if they recruit a freshman, he could use a year of learning?

But Stevens will need Smith and Higgans to step up as well, and either find a 3 point shooter, OR let Greco shoot ( if he returns) I believe he shot well from the 3. Why am I talking about Stevens when my Tigers are in the thick of it. I heard Farid and just got sucked it.

Looks like UC is in best position of NAZ, Fischer, Stevens and UC.... They do not play IC or RIT again..... That should help them possibly get the 3 spot... Fisher is reeling right now, BUT Kornaker will probably right the ship, but what do I know




   

[FisherDynasty]

sjfc, i agree fisher does get it done with team basketball.  But i disagree with POY players.  The problem is when fisher was at the top 2003-2007 era specifically 2005 and 2006 everyone on their starting 5 was as good as the top player on other e8 teams.  if those players were distributed to other e8 teams their individual stats would have been comparable to POY candidates.  Even with the lower stats 11-12 pts per game sean o'brien, jeff sidney both received POY awards and they had multiple first teamers.  There just isnt enough stats in a game to have stand out performances when a different player leads the team in scoring each game depending on match ups and the top scoring getting about 9 shots per game when your playing a team with 2 good players each getting 15 shots up.  Like said in the prior year those 2 fisher teams would have beaten the rest of the e8 allstar teams in my opinion.

[buck1053]

The Alfred roster of the early 2000s was pretty loaded with talent as well.

G--Devon Downing--2x All American and over 2500 career pts.
F--EJ Doctuer--1x All-American and 1500pt. scorer
G--Willie Smith--Very good PG when healthy
F--Brock Stortini--Banger
C--Kareem McKinnon--All time leader in Blocks
G--Tanner Webb--Great Shooter
G--Rob Stedman--Great Shooter
G/F--Chris Koek--Excellent Defender/Role Player

While injuries may have played a role, there is no question the coaching was a major factor in these guys not making significant noise in the E8. Of course, Downing's talent was surpassed only by his alcoholism/stupid decision making off the court that impacted his on the court actions.