Empire 8

[magicman]

Bombers,
Have to agree with all you said. Good analysis and observations about both teams. Plus k. Also Burton's performance today should lock up POY honors in the E8 and possibly the East region as well.

[FROMAFAR]

Take it from me, and I wish I were wrong...... RIT overachiecved this year, and the last 4-5 games showed that... That's the real Tigers...... I really thought they would be hardpressed to make the e-8 tourney before the season, look back at the posts. BUT this conference was down a bit this year. Last years 4 top teams were very strong.. IC, Stevens, Naz and Fisher compared to this years 4 entries...IC is better this year, UC is not  as good as Stevens was last year, NAZ is not as good as they were last year, and RIT is not as good as Fisher was last year.  NAZ underachieved all year ( I know, becuase they don't play defense,) BUT I think they were projected to be better than just about finishing 4th. UC did about what I expected and they are hot at the right time. IC was predicted the Class of the field and they were and are. For all intents and purposes they are undefeated as far as I am concerned. Fisher I believe overachieved at times ( albeit that home court helps them too much) Hartwick stepped up a bit this year....... Stevens was a total disappointment.... Too much talent to finish 7th....They should have been at the 4 spot. But without a point guard and experience down low...Alfred scared everybody no matter what their record, and Elmira was Elmira.......It will be IC and UC in the championship, with IC going on........ UC does not get a bid.......

They WILL NOT overturn the CRUZ suspension, no matter what the first Tech was for.... They cannot set a precedent......The rule is the rule....... BUTTTTT what do I know  

 

[reelentless]

We seem to have lost our Utica following this year,  For a team that has gone 14-16 after 5 losses and now has 7 in a row, the Utica advocates on this board have been pretty quiet.  Perhaps that's in keeping with the teams style. 

Admittedly, the two losses in that 16 game string were against Ithaca and RIT but the team has gotten more consistent and confident.  This team does not pick up as many easy transition points as it's recent predecessors and the "Munch" factor on defense is missing.  But they generally take care of the ball,  get good looks and choose shots wisely.  The combination of fewer easy shots, just adequate defense and a patient offense makes for close games. 

To it's credit, Utica plays the last two minutes very well.  Good ball handling, a steal when they need it and they make their foul shots.  RIT or Ithaca do not want the game to be close coming down to the wire.

Perhaps overlooked, is the level of talent, 1-8 on this team - I contend the best in the league.  Herring leads the scoring but the first 8 players can each put double figures on the board, and do.  Justin Maxwell is shooting over 50% from behind the arc on 60 attempts etc.  If Doug has an off night, someone else picks up the pace.  Goodman had 25 against Alfred. 

So we're looking forward to next weekend.  If Utica steps up the D and keeps Carson and (we hope) Burton from going crazy,  they'll win both games. 

[Bombers798891]

We seem to have lost our Utica following this year,  For a team that has gone 14-16 after 5 losses and now has 7 in a row, the Utica advocates on this board have been pretty quiet.  Perhaps that's in keeping with the teams style. 

Admittedly, the two losses in that 16 game string were against Ithaca and RIT but the team has gotten more consistent and confident.  This team does not pick up as many easy transition points as it's recent predecessors and the "Munch" factor on defense is missing.  But they generally take care of the ball,  get good looks and choose shots wisely.  The combination of fewer easy shots, just adequate defense and a patient offense makes for close games. 

To it's credit, Utica plays the last two minutes very well.  Good ball handling, a steal when they need it and they make their foul shots.  RIT or Ithaca do not want the game to be close coming down to the wire.

Perhaps overlooked, is the level of talent, 1-8 on this team - I contend the best in the league.  Herring leads the scoring but the first 8 players can each put double figures on the board, and do.  Justin Maxwell is shooting over 50% from behind the arc on 60 attempts etc.  If Doug has an off night, someone else picks up the pace.  Goodman had 25 against Alfred. 

So we're looking forward to next weekend.  If Utica steps up the D and keeps Carson and (we hope) Burton from going crazy,  they'll win both games. 

Re: The down to the wire part, it kind of depends. If Ithaca's leading late, and you have to foul them, good luck getting back in it. That's a game you don't want to play. The other problem is, nine of the Bombers 10 games at home this year have been won by double digits, so teams really haven't been able to stay close late in games.

The E8 could use an upset on some level, although who knows if they'll get it

[Bombers798891]

Take it from me, and I wish I were wrong...... RIT overachiecved this year, and the last 4-5 games showed that... That's the real Tigers...... I really thought they would be hardpressed to make the e-8 tourney before the season, look back at the posts. BUT this conference was down a bit this year. Last years 4 top teams were very strong.. IC, Stevens, Naz and Fisher compared to this years 4 entries...IC is better this year, UC is not  as good as Stevens was last year, NAZ is not as good as they were last year, and RIT is not as good as Fisher was last year.  NAZ underachieved all year ( I know, becuase they don't play defense,) BUT I think they were projected to be better than just about finishing 4th. UC did about what I expected and they are hot at the right time. IC was predicted the Class of the field and they were and are. For all intents and purposes they are undefeated as far as I am concerned. Fisher I believe overachieved at times ( albeit that home court helps them too much) Hartwick stepped up a bit this year....... Stevens was a total disappointment.... Too much talent to finish 7th....They should have been at the 4 spot. But without a point guard and experience down low...Alfred scared everybody no matter what their record, and Elmira was Elmira.......It will be IC and UC in the championship, with IC going on........ UC does not get a bid.......

They WILL NOT overturn the CRUZ suspension, no matter what the first Tech was for.... They cannot set a precedent......The rule is the rule....... BUTTTTT what do I know  

 

Re: The Cruz suspension, the rule is the rule. I don't think Ithaca's looking for an exception for Cruz to play following two technicals in as much as they're saying that the first technical wasn't deserved. Technicals are pretty much a judgment call, especially when it comes to hanging on a rim. I didn't see the aftermath of the play, because it was at the other end of the floor, and people jumped up when he did it, but from the way it was described, Cruz dunked, looked down to be sure no-one was underneath him, and then let go. You are allowed to hang on the rim if it is a safety issue,

I agree that you don't want to set a precedent, and I'm not sure how it works in college, but in the NBA, they review tapes and regarding flagrant fouls resulting in suspension. You also need to make people aware that referees are not infailable, that they make incorrect calls all the time (For proof, look at the LAST game these two teams played). Also remember, it's not a rule in all of basketball, it's a conference-specific rule. Part of that makes me think IC may not have much luck, as the E8 commissioner is big on sportsmanship, but you never know

[MHoops]

The official times have been announced on the empire8.com site:

http://www.empire8.com/MBasket-Over.shtml

Men:

  2/28:   2pm  RIT vs. Utica
              4pm Ithaca vs. (Nazareth / St. John Fisher)
  3/1:     1pm  Final

Women:

  2/27:  6pm  Ithaca vs. St. John Fisher
             8pm  Utica vs. Stevens
  2/28:  7pm  Final

[bombersquadron]

Here is a link to watch the Cruz alley oop dunk, wanted to post so everyone can see it and judge it for themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mXBEUMK0qI

[Bombers798891]

Here is a link to watch the Cruz alley oop dunk, wanted to post so everyone can see it and judge it for themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mXBEUMK0qI

From the replay, I will say that he did hang on the rim, but the whistle wasn't blown until AFTER the RIT coach went on the floor and said made the signal for a technical to the ref (Standing right by the RIT bench of course) after Cruz landed. Weak. If you're going to call it, call it because you think it's the right call, not because a coach made a scene a foot from you. The ref was staring at the play, but did nothing until the RIT coach went onto the floor (While we're at it, isn't THAT supposed to be a technical?)

It certainly looked like Cruz hung on the rim, but the lateness of the call was inexcusable. Thankfully it didn't affect the game. Word on the suspension should be coming later today. The Ithaca Journal is working the phones...stay tuned

[Cyclone0205]

I have to agree with Bombers on this one.  I watch it a couple times, and that really didn't look like a hang for safety.  It looked like he made a great play and hung there to show it off.  Not much, but enough for a tech given the rule.  Personally I don't agree with it, but the rule is what it is.


However, I have to agree that the referee wasn't going to call that until he got reemed out.  And in that situation, he probably should have swallowed the whistle.  The hanging on the rim is supposed to be a judgment call, and if the referee initially didn't judge it to be tech worthy, then he should have stuck to his guns.  If I had to ref under the rules as they are (a little too strict i might add) I would have given him a tech as well, but right away. 


As it happened, probably shouldn't have been blown, and the right thing to do would be to not suspend him.  Unfortunately, I don't think that'll be the case.

[Ethelred the Unready]

I have to agree with Bombers on this one.  I watch it a couple times, and that really didn't look like a hang for safety.  It looked like he made a great play and hung there to show it off.  Not much, but enough for a tech given the rule.  Personally I don't agree with it, but the rule is what it is.


However, I have to agree that the referee wasn't going to call that until he got reemed out.  And in that situation, he probably should have swallowed the whistle.  The hanging on the rim is supposed to be a judgment call, and if the referee initially didn't judge it to be tech worthy, then he should have stuck to his guns.  If I had to ref under the rules as they are (a little too strict i might add) I would have given him a tech as well, but right away. 


As it happened, probably shouldn't have been blown, and the right thing to do would be to not suspend him.  Unfortunately, I don't think that'll be the case.

The right thing to do would be to enforce a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the Ihtaca coach with the clipboard for excessive celebration.   To be assessed on the Bombers first kickoff of the '09 season

[Bombers798891]

I have to agree with Bombers on this one.  I watch it a couple times, and that really didn't look like a hang for safety.  It looked like he made a great play and hung there to show it off.  Not much, but enough for a tech given the rule.  Personally I don't agree with it, but the rule is what it is.


However, I have to agree that the referee wasn't going to call that until he got reemed out.  And in that situation, he probably should have swallowed the whistle.  The hanging on the rim is supposed to be a judgment call, and if the referee initially didn't judge it to be tech worthy, then he should have stuck to his guns.  If I had to ref under the rules as they are (a little too strict i might add) I would have given him a tech as well, but right away. 


As it happened, probably shouldn't have been blown, and the right thing to do would be to not suspend him.  Unfortunately, I don't think that'll be the case.

Also, notice the official directly under the rim didn't call it. The referees should really meet and discuss that instead of letting one official be influenced by a bench

[magicman]

New D3Hoops Top 25 poll out and Ithaca gains 40 points and moves back into the #8 spot. No other team in the East gets a mention.

[e8bballfan]

Here is a link to watch the Cruz alley oop dunk, wanted to post so everyone can see it and judge it for themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mXBEUMK0qI

From the replay, I will say that he did hang on the rim, but the whistle wasn't blown until AFTER the RIT coach went on the floor and said made the signal for a technical to the ref (Standing right by the RIT bench of course) after Cruz landed. Weak. If you're going to call it, call it because you think it's the right call, not because a coach made a scene a foot from you. The ref was staring at the play, but did nothing until the RIT coach went onto the floor (While we're at it, isn't THAT supposed to be a technical?)

It certainly looked like Cruz hung on the rim, but the lateness of the call was inexcusable. Thankfully it didn't affect the game. Word on the suspension should be coming later today. The Ithaca Journal is working the phones...stay tuned

Yeah, that was definitely technical-worthy. Not to mention an impressive dunk. I also cannot stand when the officials let the coaches/players make the calls for them, but that was certainly a technical.

[sjfcards]

WOW cant believe that fisher-UC game.  One that will go down in the record books most likely, as this is the first time that fisher has not made the e8 tourney. These guys cannot hit a free throw.  Also fisher needs to focus on making better decisions in the clutch.  This can be attributed to bad preparation by the coaching staff.  Obviously fisher does not practice situational basketball at all.  I cant believe they blew this game.  Utica did play well down the stretch with good shooting and good decisions.  This shows how much Connelly has progressed in his coaching.  I am very excited to see Utica in the next 2 years.

I would disagree with them not practicing situational basketball. Fisher has always been one of the better teams in the conference with games on the line. It would be interesting to go back and check out Fisher's record in games decided by 7 points or less in the last 6 years. I am guessing they have won a LOT more than they have lost in those games.

I think this is just a season that got away from Fisher. The played a little over their head for a team with so much young talent, and some key losses finally caught up to them. I think ultimately, they finished with the record most expected of them, they just didn't space out the losses like we thought they would. They looked great at times this year, giving a pretty down fan base something to be hopeful for. Beating U of R, beating St. Mary's, and being 14-2 everything was rolling. I will be interested to see what Fisher does next year. I think they have the personnel to win a lot of games, and be back at the top of the conference next season. I know I am biased, but they really showed flashes of brilliance at times. But, a really bad nose dive, and the season seems like it was all bad.

[sjfcards]

By the way, I don't care if it was a technical or not, that Cruz dunk was filthy. That is probably the best dunk I have seen since that Lawrence Maroney dunk against RIT a few years back.