Empire 8

[Bombers798891]

I really hope you guys get onto a fourth page of discussion of that technical.  That would truly be something.

Plus k

I thought that it was a technical.  Didn't you, magicman?

Which game will he miss?

Ralph,

I can't fault the ref for calling it. However, The E8 commissioner, has lifted the suspension. Here's a quote from Bomber798891's post on page 435 of this board.

"Normally, two technicals result in an automatic one-game suspension in the Empire 8. But a ruling by the commissioner's office Monday overrode that bylaw, citing that the rule wasn't intended to include such non-flagrant judgment calls like the first technical, Smith said."

I think the E8 commisioner was looking out for 1 of his teams and didn't want to risk an Ithaca loss in the E8 tourney. Their big man, Bostic, is out until the NCAA tournament and losing another key player might jeopardize their chances of getting an NCAA 1st round bye and/or hosting a second round pod if they lose in the 1st round of the E8 playoffs.

I don't know if I'd go that far for two reasons.

(1) I'm not sure Naz could hang with Ithaca even if Bostic and Cruz were out, though it would be closer. Cruz had 10 points in the game they played without Bostic against Naz. He only played 20 minutes though and believe it or not was the FIFTH leading scorer for Ithaca in that game.

Burton (32)
Marcus (25)
Leahy (18)
Rogers (15)

It's worth pointing out those four guys outscored Naz's entire team in the game. So while Cruz is important, it's not like Ithaca didn't doesn't have other options.

(2) If I'm the Empire 8, don't I NOT want the Bombers to win the Tournament? I mean, if they win it, all you've got is one team in. Doesn't a Bomber upset simply allow for two teams to make the Tournament, which might be better for the league anyway?

[magicman]

I really hope you guys get onto a fourth page of discussion of that technical.  That would truly be something.

Plus k

I thought that it was a technical.  Didn't you, magicman?

Which game will he miss?

Ralph,

I can't fault the ref for calling it. However, The E8 commissioner, has lifted the suspension. Here's a quote from Bomber798891's post on page 435 of this board.

"Normally, two technicals result in an automatic one-game suspension in the Empire 8. But a ruling by the commissioner's office Monday overrode that bylaw, citing that the rule wasn't intended to include such non-flagrant judgment calls like the first technical, Smith said."

I think the E8 commisioner was looking out for 1 of his teams and didn't want to risk an Ithaca loss in the E8 tourney. Their big man, Bostic, is out until the NCAA tournament and losing another key player might jeopardize their chances of getting an NCAA 1st round bye and/or hosting a second round pod if they lose in the 1st round of the E8 playoffs.

I don't know if I'd go that far for two reasons.

(1) I'm not sure Naz could hang with Ithaca even if Bostic and Cruz were out, though it would be closer. Cruz had 10 points in the game they played without Bostic against Naz. He only played 20 minutes though and believe it or not was the FIFTH leading scorer for Ithaca in that game.

Burton (32)
Marcus (25)
Leahy (18)
Rogers (15)

It's worth pointing out those four guys outscored Naz's entire team in the game. So while Cruz is important, it's not like Ithaca didn't doesn't have other options.

(2) If I'm the Empire 8, don't I NOT want the Bombers to win the Tournament? I mean, if they win it, all you've got is one team in. Doesn't a Bomber upset simply allow for two teams to make the Tournament, which might be better for the league anyway?

Bombers,
I was actually jesting when I made that statement and meant to add a smiley grin but forgot to do so as I was posting to several boards at about the same time.

However in response to your 2 statements.
#1. Yes Ithaca has handled Naz rather easily both times this year and would, in all liklihood, beat them without Bostic and Cruz. No argument there.

#2. If I had a choice of:  (a.) 2 teams from the conference get into the NCAA's, only because the top seeded, #8 team in the country with a 24-1 record (2nd best in the country) gets upset in the 1st round of their conference tournament by a team that wouldn't otherwise get a bid and they both get sent on the road or: (b) Have 1 team from the conference, the Regular season and Tournament champs with a 26-1 record (maybe by then the best record in the country) who gets a 1st round bye and then host a 2nd round game that if they win, will get a 4 team Regional and possibly a trip to the Final Four. I know which one I would choose. 

Last year that exact same scenario played out in Plattsburgh. After Brockport lost their last regular season game and then got beat in the semifinals of the SUNYAC tournament, their chances of getting an at large bid (which were very good prior to those losses) fell by the wayside. I was hoping that Plattsburgh and Brockport would both get bids, great for the SUNYAC's. If Port had lost to Plattsburgh in the tournament final they most likely would have been in, and Pburgh suffers no setback in their quest to host. When Port got handily beaten by Oswego in the semis they were done and now the only way 2 SUNYAC teams get in, is if Oswego gets the automatic qualifier by beating Pburgh. I rooted against Oswego that night with everything I had. We got the bye, the 2nd round game, and the Regionals and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. It was the first time in school history for basketball (we get hockey final fours more frequently) and probably won't happen again in my lifetime. The E8 commissioner may not care as much about the hosting thing as I did, and as I'm sure, most Bomber fans do. Then again maybe he does. But as Yoda says his are.  
   

[FROMAFAR]

Magic, I really am trying to stay out of this one, but you mentioned the Commissioner is looking out for one of his teams etc. I don't want to believe a ruling is changed for any other reason than the rule itself is mis-interpreted. Once the reasoning is how it affects teams there is a huge problem..........

[Cyclone0205]

I really believe that it was overturned because the spirit of the rule was not to suspend players for all tech's.  I think the suspension was for techs resulting from consistent showboating, fighting, arguing with referee's, etc.


Here, I think Cruz got the suspension overturned because there was a controversy over whether the first tech should have been called.  However, say Cruz's 2nd tech had also been for hanging on the rim, I think the suspension would have been upheld.

[FROMAFAR]

Cyclone let's go with your reasoning, you feel the suspension was reversed because of controversey over whether the first tech should have been called. Then you say had the second tech been for hanging on the rim it would have stood....  (I know your only playing it out......)  What if the first one was deemed it shouldn't have been called, but the second one should have... Then it still should be reversed......You see I am trying to establish the fact that the REF's calls are basically subjective ALL THE TIME..... maybe not ALL...  but many times..... therefore overturning calls could get out of hand.............what the heck do I know

[Cyclone0205]

I see what you're saying.  My reasoning for thinking if both techs had been for hanging on the rim that it would have stood, regardless of whether the first one was "controversial" is because, if you get a second tech for hanging on the rim, chances are you hung on purpose the first time.  Plus, it looks a lot worse to get two of them.  That's why i don't think there would have been as many questions about it.

[FROMAFAR]

OK........ we can put  TECHGATE to file...............  my Predictions......for the E-8

Womens........

IC- 59
Fisher- 69

UC- 58
Stevens- 65

Fisher- 52
Stevens - 72

Dani Dudek Stevens Point guard  MVP......



MENS

IC-  94
NAZ-  79

RIT-  76
UC-  81


IC-  84
UC- 70

MVP--- Cruz............. Just kidding............  BURTON MVP................


I included the woman because I have seen RIT and some Stevens games along the way. The point guard for Stevens Dudek is the best womens point guard I think I have ever seen. Look at her numbers, and if you can see her you'll agree....... They are very disciplined and if they make their foul shots... must be a Stevemns thing.... they can win the Tourney...

IC is unstoppable onn the mens, side. If we didn't catch a break on the late 3.... ( who knows about O.T.) they could be undefeated and ranked MAYBE 2....what in the world do I know

[Cyclone0205]

At the risk of sounding like a complete jackass, I must say Fromafar, you mean division 3 point guard correct??


Because Sue Bird and Kara Lawson, just to start, were just a little *sarcasm* better than dudek.  In fact, Dudek isn't the best point guard from her own state  (Cappie Poindexter and/or Epiphany Prince from Rutgers are much much better players.)



As always, you have to take numbers in context.  She's not exactly playing against elite competition.  I've seen her play 4 times in the past year (first games of double headers) and she is very talented...but best ever may be a stretch unless we're limiting to division 3.

[Ethelred the Unready]

At the risk of sounding like a complete jackass, I must say Fromafar, you mean division 3 point guard correct??


Because Sue Bird and Kara Lawson, just to start, were just a little *sarcasm* better than dudek.  In fact, Dudek isn't the best point guard from her own state  (Cappie Poindexter and/or Epiphany Prince from Rutgers are much much better players.)



As always, you have to take numbers in context.  She's not exactly playing against elite competition.  I've seen her play 4 times in the past year (first games of double headers) and she is very talented...but best ever may be a stretch unless we're limiting to division 3.

Have to say she was the best women's AAU player I ever saw or coached against.   We played her team 6 years ago in a tournament and if I hadn't been coaching, I might have enjoyed the game tremendously.  As it was, we lost by 23 but it wasn't that close.  Actually during one sequence of two trips up and down the floor, we had 6 girls on the floor (somebody forgot they were subbed for during a timeout) and we couldn't stop them.  Refs never noticed, giving you an idea of the pace of the game.  I am not proud of it, but I made Ms. Prince cry, or at least caused her to cry.  She was bring the ball up against one of our less talented players and pulled an "and1" move, dribbling the ball off the girls forehead, never breaking stride.  I flipped out on her coach, who in turn removed her from the game and made her apologize to both myself and the girl after the game.  Which was nice butI always felt bad that she was in tears when she did it.  And she may still have nightmares about the "creepy guy" (my daughters term) who asked what her name (and another girl who was Lateefa Joy, another GREAT player) was as she was leaving the lobby of the YMCA after winning the championship.  Probably wouldn't have been sooo creepy if I hadn't said "Excuse me.  What's your name cuz I want to follow you."  Thankfully, my daughter, seeing the look of horror on her and Ms. Joy's faces, stepped in and assured them I wasn't a stalker.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled program..

[with age came?]

Ethelred I can not wait until I reach 200 posts so I can give out +karma - that was hilarious!!! Thank heaven we have our daughters to protect us!!!

[magicman]

Ethelred I can not wait until I reach 200 posts so I can give out +karma - that was hilarious!!! Thank heaven we have our daughters to protect us!!!

with age,

Pat came to your aid last week and I was the beneficiary, so I guess I can return the favor and give +k to Ethelred for you. Besides that, it was funny and I don't want him to have to wait 3 more years for that karma point

[FROMAFAR]

Cyclone..... yes D3....  for Dudek.........While she isn't playing against the best her numbers are great....... Believe it or not a friend of mine coached a game against Bird when she was very young, I believe 6th grade.....Another coach told him about her and how great she was ( he thought how great could a 6th grader be.) BUT he played a triangle and 2, HIS VERSION, 2 on Bird, 3 man zone..... can you imagine IN THE 6th GRADE.........  Well she was held  to 6 pts........But she won the game..........  What was he thinking, 6th grade, anything for a "W". 

[Bombers798891]

Sean Burton was announced as Empire 8 POY today, the first player to win it outright twice, and one of five to be on three 1st teams.

1st team: Burton, Carson, C. McAdam, Cocoziello, Herring
2nd: Bostic, R. McAdam, Newman, Gray, Passalacqua
HM: Adamson, Cruz, Franklin, Goodman, Rodgers, S. Young
COY: Mullins
ROY: Blazek

No real surprises there, I must say

[e8bballfan]

Sean Burton was announced as Empire 8 POY today, the first player to win it outright twice, and one of five to be on three 1st teams.

1st team: Burton, Carson, C. McAdam, Cocoziello, Herring
2nd: Bostic, R. McAdam, Newman, Gray, Passalacqua
HM: Adamson, Cruz, Franklin, Goodman, Rodgers, S. Young
COY: Mullins
ROY: Blazek

No real surprises there, I must say

Kinda surprised R. McAdams didn't get 1st team nod with 17.8 ppg, 8.6 rpg as his numbers. Completely agree with Burton as POY, MUllins as COY and Blazek as ROY.

[Pat Coleman]

Utica coach Chris Connolly is on Hoopsville tonight. Show runs from 6-8 ET.

http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/tunein.php