Empire 8

[FROMAFAR]

I have to say, I am not a big Rossi fan...His assists were basically pass to the perimeter and they take the 3... they take so many of course his number of assists are high... No real bullets passed inside or needle threaders. Also Ithaca has always been generous with assist counts.... You know how I am prejudiced toward REAL POINT GUARD play.... run the team, control the team... Rossi not really that type YET.. he could be, but I don't think he belongs on the list. Now IC guys don't get upset, just my opinion and remember WHAT DO I KNOW  

[Bombers798891]

Also Ithaca has always been generous with assist counts.

Have you got a source to back this up? Cause my thought process is that the 7.76 assists he averaged in road/neutral site games--where, from what I gather, our SID's aren't going-- compared to the 8.01 he averaged in home games means this may go into the "Sean Burton shot more than Corey McAdam did" junk pile.

I'm sick of people making stuff up and not taking time to check facts. If you're going to essentially say that IC padded Rossi's assist numbers, have the guts to say where you're getting the information from, or use stats to back it up. Because the home/road discrepancy isn't large enough to warrant comments like that

Also, just because he's not threading the needle inside doesn't mean he's not "running the team". He's still the one controlling the pace

[FROMAFAR]

Easy, Bomber 90210 or something like that, you are too passionate about this..... If I offended, you or a friend or relative let me apologize....... This is totally my perception based on the few games maybe 6 or 7, I saw this year involving IC.  The point was him not being picked as ALL Freshman... He is not a take charge point guard who clearly runs the show....... that is a fact. He is only a Freshman and I am sure he will progress in that area.  Let me rephrase the generous with assists point. The assists are for the most part decided by event staff (usually students) assigned at the scorers table. Not exactly experts. Some schools do it better than others MY OPINION ONLY. Obviously no one is going to go through every assist the guy had this year, and a better argument you could have made was had so many how can you question his assists.....I would bow to that logic, but the fact that IC had so many 3's, I can't really help but question whether he has the ability to run the team. Remember some people don't feel the need for, as I call it, a pure point guard. Some coaches prefer 5 interchangeable clones on the court...that has some upside too..........SO as I originally said this isn't a knock on the kid, or IC, as anyone who has been part of this site for awhile knows, I never knock a player... just agreeing with the picks...You are correct about McAdams as well.   he has many assists and many t/o's.. but he can run a team. Again Rossi may do so as he matures...   Relax and root those Bombers on.........        

[Bombers798891]

Easy, Bomber 90210 or something like that, you are too passionate about this..... If I offended, you or a friend or relative let me apologize....... This is totally my perception based on the few games maybe 6 or 7, I saw this year involving IC.  The point was him not being picked as ALL Freshman... He is not a take charge point guard who clearly runs the show....... that is a fact. He is only a Freshman and I am sure he will progress in that area.  Let me rephrase the generous with assists point. The assists are for the most part decided by event staff (usually students) assigned at the scorers table. Not exactly experts. Some schools do it better than others MY OPINION ONLY. Obviously no one is going to go through every assist the guy had this year, and a better argument you could have made was had so many how can you question his assists.....I would bow to that logic, but the fact that IC had so many 3's, I can't really help but question whether he has the ability to run the team. Remember some people don't feel the need for, as I call it, a pure point guard. Some coaches prefer 5 interchangeable clones on the court...that has some upside too..........SO as I originally said this isn't a knock on the kid, or IC, as anyone who has been part of this site for awhile knows, I never knock a player... just agreeing with the picks...You are correct about McAdams as well.   he has many assists and many t/o's.. but he can run a team. Again Rossi may do so as he matures...   Relax and root those Bombers on.........      

Right, I get that, but as I showed, his road assists are almost as high as his home assists, so if the "event staff"--are being generous, it's not just IC's. For example, he had 17 against Roanoke at Case Western, 12 at Hobart, 10 at Hartwick.

To me, the problem wasn't that you were implying that the people sometimes struggle to identify an assist (which admittedly, can be tough), but that Ithaca was padding his stats. You used the word "Generous" not a phrase like "Ithaca people have told me that they're not always sure who to award an assist to. To imply that somehow Ithaca's being disingenuous regarding their record keeping is a whole different ball of wax

I'm not going to debate the kind of assists he had, because it's a pointless endeavor. If you don't think that, hey, that's ok. We can agree to disagree.

[Ethelred the Unready]

DIII News publication has announced their All American teams today.

Tyler Sanborn of Guilford was named as the Player of the Year

Corey McAdam of Nazareth was named to the 4th team

David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was named to the 4th team

Honorable Mention
Chris Ruiz of Plattsburgh State
Brian Beckford Oneonta State
Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence
Keith Hack Medaille

Here is a link for the complete list:

http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf

No Rossi on the freshman list is a minor surprise. Kid leads the nation in APG, but the A/TO ratio was a bit high and the scoring average probably a bit low. So understandable.

No Stefan Thompson from Hobart on the freshman team either.  Both Rossi and Thompson should have made their list. Nothing this publication does surprises me though. Last year they omitted numerous D3Hoops All Americans from their 5 All American teams. For 2 consectutive years now they have the D3Hoops Player of the Year (Jimmy Bartolotta and Steve Djurickovic) on their 2nd team. They call themselves the leading authority on small college basketball since 1991, but apparently from all reports they are the only ones who think that is true. A legend in their own mind.    

No DiBartomwatchamacallit from UR either.  Rookie of the Year in the UAA

[magicman]

DIII News publication has announced their All American teams today.

Tyler Sanborn of Guilford was named as the Player of the Year

Corey McAdam of Nazareth was named to the 4th team

David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was named to the 4th team

Honorable Mention
Chris Ruiz of Plattsburgh State
Brian Beckford Oneonta State
Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence
Keith Hack Medaille

Here is a link for the complete list:

http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf

No Rossi on the freshman list is a minor surprise. Kid leads the nation in APG, but the A/TO ratio was a bit high and the scoring average probably a bit low. So understandable.

No Stefan Thompson from Hobart on the freshman team either.  Both Rossi and Thompson should have made their list. Nothing this publication does surprises me though. Last year they omitted numerous D3Hoops All Americans from their 5 All American teams. For 2 consectutive years now they have the D3Hoops Player of the Year (Jimmy Bartolotta and Steve Djurickovic) on their 2nd team. They call themselves the leading authority on small college basketball since 1991, but apparently from all reports they are the only ones who think that is true. A legend in their own mind.    

No DiBartomwatchamacallit from UR either.  Rookie of the Year in the UAA

Ethelred,
Actually John DiBartolomeo of UR did make their All-Freshman Team. here's the list from their press release:

All-Freshman Team
Scott Rogers Trine
Shasha Brown Wesleyan
Dane Givner Heidelberg
Deshun McCoy Occidental
John DiBartolomeo Rochester
Harrison George H-Sydney
Blair Rozenblad Thiel
Derek Raridon North Central
Paul Reynolds Wesley
Isaiah Johnson NJ City

And here's the link to that press release:

http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf

[magicman]

I have to say, I am not a big Rossi fan...His assists were basically pass to the perimeter and they take the 3... they take so many of course his number of assists are high... No real bullets passed inside or needle threaders. Also Ithaca has always been generous with assist counts.... You know how I am prejudiced toward REAL POINT GUARD play.... run the team, control the team... Rossi not really that type YET.. he could be, but I don't think he belongs on the list. Now IC guys don't get upset, just my opinion and remember WHAT DO I KNOW  

FROMAFAR,
I have to disagree with you on that. Both Rossi and and Stefan Thompson from Hobart should have made that All-Freshman team. In Rossi's case it's not just his D3 leading assist total that he put up but also scoring in double figures as well (11.0 ppg) that should have put him on that team. He had 8 double-doubles and was 1 assist shy of having 3 more. In Thompson's case his 15 ppg scoring average was just 1 facet of his all-around play. I could go into specifics but take my word for it, there are at least 4 guys on that All Freshman team that didn't have numbers as good as Rossi or Thompson and the teams they play for didn't have seasons as good as Ithaca or Hobart.  

[Ethelred the Unready]

DIII News publication has announced their All American teams today.

Tyler Sanborn of Guilford was named as the Player of the Year

Corey McAdam of Nazareth was named to the 4th team

David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was named to the 4th team

Honorable Mention
Chris Ruiz of Plattsburgh State
Brian Beckford Oneonta State
Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence
Keith Hack Medaille

Here is a link for the complete list:

http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf

No Rossi on the freshman list is a minor surprise. Kid leads the nation in APG, but the A/TO ratio was a bit high and the scoring average probably a bit low. So understandable.

No Stefan Thompson from Hobart on the freshman team either.  Both Rossi and Thompson should have made their list. Nothing this publication does surprises me though. Last year they omitted numerous D3Hoops All Americans from their 5 All American teams. For 2 consectutive years now they have the D3Hoops Player of the Year (Jimmy Bartolotta and Steve Djurickovic) on their 2nd team. They call themselves the leading authority on small college basketball since 1991, but apparently from all reports they are the only ones who think that is true. A legend in their own mind.    

No DiBartomwatchamacallit from UR either.  Rookie of the Year in the UAA

Ethelred,
Actually John DiBartolomeo of UR did make their All-Freshman Team. here's the list from their press release:

All-Freshman Team
Scott Rogers Trine
Shasha Brown Wesleyan
Dane Givner Heidelberg
Deshun McCoy Occidental
John DiBartolomeo Rochester
Harrison George H-Sydney
Blair Rozenblad Thiel
Derek Raridon North Central
Paul Reynolds Wesley
Isaiah Johnson NJ City

And here's the link to that press release:

http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf

See this is what happens when you multi-task at a certain age.  I saw a while ago that he made the all freshman team.  I guess I was flashing on no one from UR getting any mention on any of the DIII all East teams.  (Now watch me be wrong about that....)

[FROMAFAR]

I hear you MAGIC, and you may have a point with Thompson.. I have seen Rossi, and I just don't think it's that big of a miss. Bomber is right we can agree to disagree and really not worthy of debate. However I just want to clear up my point a little. I don't believe those making the decisions don't know who to give an assist to.. I just think it's not that important to them and they don't always know what an assist is...But as I also said, in a round about way...you can't look at all of the assists and decipher them... The big picture is, Rossi was a talented Freshman, and will probably be a decent player through his career, and Bomber is right this is not worth the debate.......

Thanks for the assist Magic..........  

[bomber3]

I hear you MAGIC, and you may have a point with Thompson.. I have seen Rossi, and I just don't think it's that big of a miss. Bomber is right we can agree to disagree and really not worthy of debate. However I just want to clear up my point a little. I don't believe those making the decisions don't know who to give an assist to.. I just think it's not that important to them and they don't always know what an assist is...But as I also said, in a round about way...you can't look at all of the assists and decipher them... The big picture is, Rossi was a talented Freshman, and will probably be a decent player through his career, and Bomber is right this is not worth the debate.......

Thanks for the assist Magic..........  

Fromafar -- he's a decent player already!

[Bombers798891]

I don't believe those making the decisions don't know who to give an assist to.. I just think it's not that important to them and they don't always know what an assist is...

Meh, if that's your logic for IC, why should we believe anyone's assist totals?

[FROMAFAR]

Bomber 3, correct he is a decent player, and probably will continue to be, Bomber 79.... I believe the assist and turn over statistic are the are the most subjective statistic of all... I have seen players get a turn over after a perfect pass, and it goes off the players hands and the passer is given the turn over. I have seen passes given on fast breaks, wher the receiver of the pass dribbles once or twice no assist... OR the receiver dribbles 4 or 5 times and the passer IS given an assist.  I actually don't know the specific rule ( not a surprise) but I thought two dribbles or less and it is an assist. This is why I think it's subjective... I just don't think those keeping those stats have a set rule. BUT GUYS ALL OF THIS BEING SAID, I AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT IT IS THE SAME ALL OVER SO WE USUALLY GET A CONSISTANCY...I JUST THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE E-8 SCHOOLS YOU WILL NOTICE HOME OR VISITOR, ASSIST SEEM HIGHER IN SOME PLACES AND LOWER IN OTHERS.

AGAIN, as bomber 79... says too much time ona muet issue... It must be the off season.        

[Pat Coleman]

There's no rule regarding number of dribbles when it comes to assists. From the statistical manual.

A player is credited with an assist when the player makes, in
the judgment of the statistician, the principal pass contributing
directly to a field goal (or an awarded score of two or three
points). Only one assist is to be credited on any field goal and
only when the pass was a major part of the play. The same player
cannot be credited with an assist and a field goal made on
the same possession.

Such a pass should be either (a) a pass that finds a player free
after he or she has maneuvered without the ball for a positional
advantage, or (b) a pass that gives the receiving player a positional
advantage he or she otherwise would not have had.

Philosophy. An assist should be more than a routine pass
that just happens to be followed by a field goal. It should be a
conscious effort to find the open player or to help a player work
free. There should not be a limit on the number of dribbles by
the receiver. It is not even necessary that the assist be given
on the last pass. There is no restraint on the distance or type of
shot made, for these are not the crucial factors in determining
whether an assist should be credited.

[FROMAFAR]

Thanks Pat, so it is basically subjective...with guidelines.. and that would be a good item for schools to go over before the season with their game staffs.
I guess we can put this one to rest.......

Good drill though....... That's what makes this site good... we can all learn...  

[bomber3]

There's no rule regarding number of dribbles when it comes to assists. From the statistical manual.

A player is credited with an assist when the player makes, in
the judgment of the statistician, the principal pass contributing
directly to a field goal (or an awarded score of two or three
points). Only one assist is to be credited on any field goal and
only when the pass was a major part of the play. The same player
cannot be credited with an assist and a field goal made on
the same possession.

Such a pass should be either (a) a pass that finds a player free
after he or she has maneuvered without the ball for a positional
advantage, or (b) a pass that gives the receiving player a positional
advantage he or she otherwise would not have had.

Philosophy. An assist should be more than a routine pass
that just happens to be followed by a field goal. It should be a
conscious effort to find the open player or to help a player work
free. There should not be a limit on the number of dribbles by
the receiver. It is not even necessary that the assist be given
on the last pass. There is no restraint on the distance or type of
shot made, for these are not the crucial factors in determining
whether an assist should be credited.

Wow I didn't realize an assist was that subjective.  If statisticians truly followed that definition there would be assists on less than 25% of field goals in my opinion  -- at any level.  Simply making a pass to a 3 point shooter would not qualify as an assist by that definition. McAdam, Rossi, Burton, etc. would all average between 4-5 assists if the true letter of the law is followed.  I like it better the way the statisticians do it -- although it cheapens an assist, it makes things more interesting!