Empire 8

[sjfcards]

Bomber 798891...your sucking me in for early preview.... I will wait until the fall, I will say early prediction IC and RIT will be one two in conference. Fisher as always will be in the mix....

Hartwick moves up a bit
Naz takes a hit and backs up
Stevens takes biggest hit and will be near the bottom.
UC no change
Alfred moves up a bit
Elmira no change


remember I have no idea about recruits.......In fall I will give more detail on why.......... But remember WHAT DO I KNOW

So we have a Bomber fan picking the Bombers and a RIT fan picking the Tigers

I thought Stevens would fall off big-time last year and I was sorely mistaken.  I'm not going to make that mistake again...

Add a Fisher Fan picking the Cardinals.

[lileyes]

Ryan McAdam signed to play oversees in Manchester, England

[bomber3]

I thought he had a grad assistant position already in line?  Did he change his mind last minute?

[AUPepBand]

Bomber 798891...your sucking me in for early preview.... I will wait until the fall, I will say early prediction IC and RIT will be one two in conference. Fisher as always will be in the mix....

Hartwick moves up a bit
Naz takes a hit and backs up
Stevens takes biggest hit and will be near the bottom.
UC no change
Alfred moves up a bit
Elmira no change


remember I have no idea about recruits.......In fall I will give more detail on why.......... But remember WHAT DO I KNOW

So we have a Bomber fan picking the Bombers and a RIT fan picking the Tigers

I thought Stevens would fall off big-time last year and I was sorely mistaken.  I'm not going to make that mistake again...

Add a Fisher Fan picking the Cardinals.

Word from Saxonville is that Coach Dale Wellman has his best recruiting class to date. Pep will go out on a limb and, giving in to peer pressure, as a Saxon fan, pick the Saxons to take it all.

[FROMAFAR]

That a boy PEP, now if we could get some Utica, Elmira, Stevens and Hartwick blood flowing we can have some fun.... Truly I think all Alfred has to do, other than get some players which PEP is hearing... get out of that COCO style of play... distribute the ball...are you listening Hartwick, you too. This one man show does not work..  On the other hand, my Tigers are too busy trying to spread it out. We need a set rotation and not 16 guys. Oh boy looks like I'm warming up.  We're almost there.... well sort of.......

[Cyclone0205]

Sorry for the delay boys, been a long time.  Just caught up on some of the posts, going to add a little bit of what I can gather from the Stevens group this year.


First, FROMAFAR, as always we've gone back and forth on the importance of Greco to the Stevens program, and we agree that he is certainly a good player, but saying he's the biggest loss of the last 4 years is a stretch.  He isn't the biggest point guard loss in the 4 years (Morris, class of '07), and would certainly not be considered a bigger loss than Farid, Gray, or Williams.  If you were to ask Skyline or E8 coaches which of those 5 (Morris, Farid, Gray, Williams, Greco) they're happiest is gone the vast majority would rather the Ducks had Greco than the other 4.  Remember, he was a 14 minute a game freshman on the Sweet 16 squad that was really used as a spell guy and defensive pest when Morris needed a break.  Aside from Collins the starters that year almost never came off the floor (Morris at 28 mpg, Passalacqua at 31 mpg, Gray at 34 mpg, Farid at 34 mpg).  His win total of 60 is a little misleading if you're including his freshman year where he only started 1 game because Gray was suspended.  You can't really include the 23 wins from his freshman year in the "60 win" total you gave him because he was a role player on those teams.  The year after Morris left Greco was a starter but Farid primarily played with the ball in his hands and Greco was really the 5th option on that starting lineup.  Last year he was really his first season as the true "leader" of a Stevens club and he played well, but Thompson showed glimpses of being a suitable replacement.  Overall Greco probably goes down as the 4th best point guard to play at the school:


1) Bronstein (3rd All-Time in Points, 5th All-Time in Assists)
2) Morris (All-Time Career Assists Leader, most wins as starting PG in Stevens History w/59 in 4 years)
3) Gavina (4th All-Time in Points, 2nd All-Time 3 pointers Made)
4) Greco (2nd most wins as starting point guard w/40 in 3 years)


As for the 2010-2011 edition of the Ducks, look for them to be more competitive than expected.  For starters, consider the fact that Thompson (So.) and Cutri (Jr.) finished 1-2 All-Time for 3 point percentage in a season.  Thompson shot 49% (42/86) from behind the arc, while Cutri was 47% (46/97).  I don't expect either to shoot that well this year, but to have 2 guys shooting 40% from behind the arc gives you a good chance to stay in ballgames.  I also expect the Stevens transition at PG to continue without much of a hiccup.  When Morris graduated after senior year and Greco was the rising PG everyone worried what would happen when Morris graduated, as he had been a 3 year captain and 4 year starter for the Ducks.  Sure enough, Greco stepped in and the team had another outstanding season.  Now, Greco is the outgoing senior and Thompson is the rising PG, and I think he will be able to step up and do a good job.  Not as good a playmaker as Greco or Morris, but this team will need him to score more than Morris or Greco had to, and he has that capability.

Simon Smith returns after averaging 12 and 9 last year while shooting close to 60%.  You know what he's going to give you every night and hopefully he stayed in the gym shooting free throws because he gets to the line often (142 attempts last year) but makes few (shot 47%).  Up front with him will probably be Bryan Franklin and a new incoming freshman who, without seeing the rest of the league, is my early choice for E8 Rookie of the Year.  Bout 6'6", athletic big kid from NC.  Runs the floor extremely well.  Looked phenomenal for the Ducks in summer league and should get better with some game experience and weight training.  

Bench features a ton of guys who saw minutes last year, including Kessler, Jones, and Schwartz.  They also have 3 recruits who should be solid, but not major, contributors as conference play approaches later in the season.

As stated by Bomber, doom and gloom for the Ducks is risky because they've proven to be surprisingly consistent over the last 5 years, and I think this team is probably a 16-11 squad without seeing what their schedule looks like for this year.  

[FisherDynasty]

Fromafar, I posted about Fishers recruiting class a few pages back, it is supposedly going to be very good and deep, considered one of the best ever ranging from players accross the country.  Word of mouth is the players also have good heads on there shoulders so we will see what they can do on the court. As Fisher has good players coming back only 1 or 2 need to have an impact.  Fisher should be the team to beat as usually, even if they arnt, they should but until another team actually proves they deserve any hype whatsover, I feel like this is a annual saying these days.

[FROMAFAR]

Cyclone, good to have you back, need that Stevens insight. You make a lot of snese and obviously follow the Ducks more than anyone on this site. I agree a Morris to Greco comparison is askew in that Morris was a true point guard. He actually gave up shots he should have taken trying to get the ball to Farid, and Gray. As you said awhile ago, I think it was you, that Greco was a 1 1/2 rather than a pure 1. Thta certainly proved to be true.  Maybe I mis-communcated a bit.  You can't compare a point guard to a two or a 3 or a Center. I think Gray, Williams and Greco all complimented one another. When Collins played on that NCAA team h too did his job weel. Blocked shots and rebounding. That team needed everyone of those guys to get to the sweet 16. Including Greco and Higgans off the bench. You tell me, did those guys bringa swagger to the team? Didn't they seem to give the teama personality. The loss of Willaims at Center tough to replace... Smith is doinga good job there. Passalaqua didn't impress me really. Excellent shooter, but what you got there you lost on defense and seemed to slow the team downa bit... I dunno you know better, losing him didn't seem to be an issue. Farid held the ball too much as you said had the ball in his hands more than anyone on the'08 team, that hurt a bity because Ibelieve his turnover numbers were pretty high. Gray was great and could have been better his senior year had Greco been there to distribute.  So I guess all I am saying after hearing your much more learned take on the team is yes Morris Williams Gray and Greco brought that team to new hights. While all will be missed sorely this year will be very interesting. Actually going from Morris to Greco to Thompson is interesting. Morris a true 1-  Greco a 1.5, and Thompson so far a small 2. I'll give Thompson this year to see if he can get it to Smith down low. Not turn the ball over and accumulate 110 assists.   Hey Cyclone who is backing up Thompson at the point? 

So Cyclone I will let you carry the flag fro Stevens, I have to worry about the Tigers. Sad part is we are moving on next year. I still don't like that. I truly believe if we keep our rotation to 8 or 9 and stick with it we will be very good this year. Although Bombers are talking like they have recruited possibly 3 starters.....if I have that right, and with what they have already should be tough, very tough... Fisher boys are very confident they have the best and recruits are awsome. Any Naz news out there? I still think RIT, Fisher, IC, are top 3........ and Elmira, Stevens, Alfred and Utica battle for bottom 4. That leaves Hartwick and Naz looking for the 4 spot, BUT WHAT DO I KNOW    

[Cyclone0205]

FROMAFAR -


Greco and Higgins were instrumental in that Sweet 16 run in '07, and I think part of that was the overall mentality of that team.  They were, the most part, just tougher than other teams.  What Greco allowed Loeffler to do was either rest Morris or, and this was a staple move, play Greco at his "1.5" position by letting Morris be the point and set Greco up. 

As for Thompson, I think he is in a similar mold to those two.  Seemed to be a tough kid, stepped up in big games, but also was a guy who showed up in games the Ducks were struggling.  Can remember at least 2 times I was pretty sure he was going to fight the opposing teams center, though that fight wouldn't have ended well.  He is not as good a passer as Greco, which could be a problem as you said, because they need Smith to have a big year.  Behind Thompson at the point is a work in progress.  Most likely Cutri will slide off the 2 spot and be the ball handler when Thompson isn't in, which I think limits his offensive game.  Rumors are going that Sanchez, the point from a couple years ago, could be back this year, which would help them, but I have no idea if those are true.  If not they are going with Sophomore Thompson and a freshman at point, in which case Thompson may not come off the court.  The freshman looked ok but he might be 4'6".  Ok, maybe 5'3", but seriously, he's small.


For me, RIT IC and Fisher are again cream of the crop.  I think Naz and Stevens battle for the final spot with Hartwick nipping.  Still think Elmira is moving in the right direction, with Utica going the other way.  And the Alfred boys will show up and play hard every game.

[FROMAFAR]

Great stuff cyclone, look forward to season and the posts.

[Hugenerd]

Elmira apparently has another pretty good freshman on campus, a 6'4" point guard out of Maryland, Derrick Vogel.  Here is a clip of him with 7 steals in the first half of a high school game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3mtZv5lrQY&feature=related

[sjfcards]

I am officially very interested in the Fisher recruiting class. How does Kornaker get these guys from all over the country? I don't know what his recruiting budget is, but no other Fisher teams seem to be able to pull from that wide of an area.

[E8GUY]

Elmira apparently has another pretty good freshman on campus, a 6'4" point guard out of Maryland, Derrick Vogel.  Here is a clip of him with 7 steals in the first half of a high school game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3mtZv5lrQY&feature=related

Vogel is only 6'2 but is a very legit player and should make an impact freshman year.  The guy hitting all the threes on passes from Derrick is also enrolled at Elmira, and Smajovic will be a rookie of the year candidate.

The Elmira class is deep and talented.

The days of expecting an automatic win at Elmira are over.

[d3hooper33]

Just spoke with the head coach over at Utica he has brought in 12 new kids and he said 4 potential new starters including a 6'10 center and a 6'8 3 man who can shoot it. Most of the kids are from the city and are very athletic he said that they have a freshman guard that should be freshman of the year as well who is 6'4 and can just flat out score sounds like utica will be back in the mix

[bomber3]

I've heard big things about Ithaca as well.  By the sound of everyone on these boards the empire 8 should have at least 3 of the four spots in the final four..