Empire 8

[FROMAFAR]

Bomber 3 I love it.......... your right, we may even get the whole final 4 if they move people out of the area.   No really this is great stuff. Now we have Utica and Elmira guys, along with IC, Fisher, RIT, Stevens ( I assume Cyclone, although only committed knowledge not allegiance) , of course PEP from Alfred,.   I still don't have Hartwick blood, and I thought they had a shot at the 4 spot until I heard of all these studs coming.  Looks like Hartwick.. Stevens and RIT don't boast any big new additions yet??? BUT what do I know   I have a feeling this is going to be fun year.     

[E8GUY]

Bomber 3 I love it.......... your right, we may even get the whole final 4 if they move people out of the area.   No really this is great stuff. Now we have Utica and Elmira guys, along with IC, Fisher, RIT, Stevens ( I assume Cyclone, although only committed knowledge not allegiance) , of course PEP from Alfred,.   I still don't have Hartwick blood, and I thought they had a shot at the 4 spot until I heard of all these studs coming.  Looks like Hartwick.. Stevens and RIT don't boast any big new additions yet??? BUT what do I know   I have a feeling this is going to be fun year.     

As for Hartwick the last I heard Todd had eight firm commitments, and he is on a serious mission to upgrade that program.  He is a very engaging guy, with true integrity too, and the town is an easier sell than many other E-8 locations for downstate talent.

Elmira has a fabulous class but Hartwick is the easy bet to become an annual force if McGuinness stays.  They have a lot going for them.

The school that needs to watch their back is Ithaca, they already killed the JV, what other downgrades are coming?  With more competition from past also rans they will not be able to rest on past successes.

[FROMAFAR]

Guy, I agree aboout McGuiness, he's the guy who figured out Stevens last year. CUT OFF THE HEAD> His triangle and two on Cutri and Greco showed just how everthing came through those two. They kept the ball out of Greco's hands and didn't let Cutri shoot. McGuiness is certainly a good coach, let's see if he is recruiting well. Don't sell IC short. The JV program is not that important. BUT I will say after Stevens ( HOBOKEN) city kids might want to stay closer to city.   I am starting to worry abit about my Tigers. Nothing firm on recruits, just rumors. I am not in the inner circle, I am FROMAFAR so there could be some good guys coming..  I truly believe if they spread the offense out at Hartwick they will be in the mix. BUT

[sjfcards]

Bomber 3 I love it.......... your right, we may even get the whole final 4 if they move people out of the area.   No really this is great stuff. Now we have Utica and Elmira guys, along with IC, Fisher, RIT, Stevens ( I assume Cyclone, although only committed knowledge not allegiance) , of course PEP from Alfred,.   I still don't have Hartwick blood, and I thought they had a shot at the 4 spot until I heard of all these studs coming.  Looks like Hartwick.. Stevens and RIT don't boast any big new additions yet??? BUT what do I know   I have a feeling this is going to be fun year.     

I love to see some juice from several programs as well. I can not wait for this year, as I think this may be one of the more wide open seasons we have had in the conference. Just taking Fisher for example, with what they have coming back I could see them winning the conference regular season, then again, after hearing about some of the recruiting classes, and what I know about players returning, I can see them not making the E8 tournament. I think a lot of teams are in that category. Should be a lot of fun.

[bomber3]

E8GUY:

In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later. 

[Bombers798891]

E8GUY:

In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later. 

Talked to a Bomber assistant coach and told him jokingly that I expected at least 20 this year. His response: "Come on man, give me a break." The schedule is very tough, even for a Bomber team that figures to have talent.

Word is Jordan Marcus lost 20 pounds, and Phil Barera gained 20. Both those things figure to be good.

Bottom line, and Bomber3 will hate this: I really don't care how the team does in the regular season. I mean, I want them to do well, and they probably will. But there's a stigma attached to this program right now, of their own doing. The program, as a whole, has never won an E8 tourney game and hasn't won an NCAA Tourney game since the very early 90's. Does that mean I won't come watch them shoot the lights out in February and be happy when they do? Of course not.

It does mean that I consider this team talented enough to be one of the Top 4 in the league, and at that point, I want to see them put it together when it matters. They're going to be good, but it's time for them to fulfill their potential. We've had three great regular seasons, but it's time to take the next step

[bomber3]

E8GUY:

In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later.  

Talked to a Bomber assistant coach and told him jokingly that I expected at least 20 this year. His response: "Come on man, give me a break." The schedule is very tough, even for a Bomber team that figures to have talent.

Word is Jordan Marcus lost 20 pounds, and Phil Barera gained 20. Both those things figure to be good.

Bottom line, and Bomber3 will hate this: I really don't care how the team does in the regular season. I mean, I want them to do well, and they probably will. But there's a stigma attached to this program right now, of their own doing. The program, as a whole, has never won an E8 tourney game and hasn't won an NCAA Tourney game since the very early 90's. Does that mean I won't come watch them shoot the lights out in February and be happy when they do? Of course not.

It does mean that I consider this team talented enough to be one of the Top 4 in the league, and at that point, I want to see them put it together when it matters. They're going to be good, but it's time for them to fulfill their potential. We've had three great regular seasons, but it's time to take the next step

You're right, I don't like it.  You know me too well  .  So basically what you're saying is that the regular season is relatively pointless?  Winning two out of three E8 regular season titles, reaching the second round of the NCAA's, reaching #7 ranking in the nation, and an ECAC title last year doesn't matter?  Yes, I will admit IC's postseason struggles need to be improved upon but it's not like they haven't experienced any success.   They have the most wins in the East Region over the past three years:

Ithaca - 61
Medaille - 60
PLattsburgh - 56
SUNY IT - 56
Fisher - 56
St. Lawrence - 55
Stevens - 54
Nazareth - 51

Over the past three years Ithaca has jumped from the middle of the East to one of their premier programs in the region.  Would some postseason success be nice? Absolutely, but with or without past or future NCAA/E8 success they have undoubtedly become one of the premier teams in the region.  I guarantee you almost all the teams in the region would trade their past three years for Ithaca's.

And as for this year, mark it down they will reach 20 wins and will be ranked by the end of the year.  This is their new guard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHw3ianWB5U

[Bombers798891]

E8GUY:

In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later.  

Talked to a Bomber assistant coach and told him jokingly that I expected at least 20 this year. His response: "Come on man, give me a break." The schedule is very tough, even for a Bomber team that figures to have talent.

Word is Jordan Marcus lost 20 pounds, and Phil Barera gained 20. Both those things figure to be good.

Bottom line, and Bomber3 will hate this: I really don't care how the team does in the regular season. I mean, I want them to do well, and they probably will. But there's a stigma attached to this program right now, of their own doing. The program, as a whole, has never won an E8 tourney game and hasn't won an NCAA Tourney game since the very early 90's. Does that mean I won't come watch them shoot the lights out in February and be happy when they do? Of course not.

It does mean that I consider this team talented enough to be one of the Top 4 in the league, and at that point, I want to see them put it together when it matters. They're going to be good, but it's time for them to fulfill their potential. We've had three great regular seasons, but it's time to take the next step

You're right, I don't like it.  You know me too well  .  So basically what you're saying is that the regular season is relatively pointless?  Winning two out of three E8 regular season titles, reaching the second round of the NCAA's, reaching #7 ranking in the nation, and an ECAC title last year doesn't matter?  Yes, I will admit IC's postseason struggles need to be improved upon but it's not like they haven't experienced any success.   They have the most wins in the East Region over the past three years:

Ithaca - 61
Medaille - 60
PLattsburgh - 56
SUNY IT - 56
Fisher - 56
St. Lawrence - 55
Stevens - 54
Nazareth - 51

Over the past three years Ithaca has jumped from the middle of the East to one of their premier programs in the region.  Would some postseason success be nice? Absolutely, but with or without past or future NCAA/E8 success they have undoubtedly become one of the premier teams in the region.  I guarantee you almost all the teams in the region would trade their past three years for Ithaca's.

And as for this year, mark it down they will reach 20 wins and will be ranked by the end of the year.  This is their new guard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHw3ianWB5U

Of course the regular season matters, but after three consecutive years of very high-quality teams flaming out in the postseason, it's not like this is a one-time thing.

And remember, I'm not asking for a Final Four run here. How about one E8/NCAA Tournament game win? I mean, the regular seasons have been great, but for three years, this team has failed to play to its full potential, and that's disappointing.

It's frustrating to watch last year's team run Nazareth out of the gym in January, but then lose to them six weeks later.

Just like it was frustrating that the Golden Flyers were the team that adjusted their play in the 2009 playoffs after the Bombers killed them twice in the regular season.

Or to watch them lose at home by 20 to a Fisher team they had beaten on the road by double-digits 13 days earlier.

No-one's saying forget the regular seasons. That 2008-2009 team was special, but no matter how many times I look at the Burton to Cruz alley oop against RIT, I keep thinking about what that team could have, (and frankly should have) done.

It's not me just picking on the basketball team. It's symptomatic of the entire athletic program. The football team puts together great seasons, but hasn't won an NCAA playoff game since 2003. The Men's Lax team has gone 40-5 in the E8 regular season over the last six years and 4-5 in the conference tournament. Men's soccer hasn't won an E8 tournament in who knows how long, and were lost in the first round numerous times after running the table in the regular season.  Baseball flames out in the regionals all the time.

I know you think I'm negative, but I'm probably the biggest Bomber fan there is. I hate it when the teams lose. Nothing would please me more than to see the football team win playoff games, or the basketball team make a deep run. And so, when the teams, who we KNOW can do that--like the 2009 Basketball/Lacrosse teams or the 2008 football team, I am going to be hard on them. The program shouldn't be satisfied with a bunch of regular season trophies. They should be striving for more.

We just built a 60-million dollar athletic and events center. If we're going to make that kind of investment in the athletic dept at the expense of the rest of the college (which I didn't think we should have but that's another issue) then, frankly we should be demanding excellence. We should be questioning why our teams can't win the big games, and why Fisher's football team owns us, and why Cortland's program has passed us completely.

Remember, "to whom much is given, much is expected"

[E8GUY]

E8GUY:

In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later. 

That's all fine and I agree, if the only thing we can discuss is 2010 no reason For Ithaca to worry about Elmira at all.  But that is changing.  And interestingly, you discussed Ithaca/Elmira after cutting and pasting a comment I made after discussing the Hartwick program.  Not Elmira.

I think Torgalski is an excellent fit at Elmira and things are improving there.  I also think best case scenerio at Elmira is become a solid program who can be more of a spoiler.  Hartwick, on the other hand, can become a true force in the league.  Great college town, a basketball tradition, and a young energiic coach who already knows the school and the league.  And just close enough to NYC, NJ, and Long Island to recruit them effectively.

So yes, I believe these teams are improving and will continue to do so.   And I also think that will make Ithaca's life more difficult.

[bomber3]

E8GUY:

In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later. 

That's all fine and I agree, if the only thing we can discuss is 2010 no reason For Ithaca to worry about Elmira at all.  But that is changing.  And interestingly, you discussed Ithaca/Elmira after cutting and pasting a comment I made after discussing the Hartwick program.  Not Elmira.

I think Torgalski is an excellent fit at Elmira and things are improving there.  I also think best case scenerio at Elmira is become a solid program who can be more of a spoiler.  Hartwick, on the other hand, can become a true force in the league.  Great college town, a basketball tradition, and a young energiic coach who already knows the school and the league.  And just close enough to NYC, NJ, and Long Island to recruit them effectively.

So yes, I believe these teams are improving and will continue to do so.   And I also think that will make Ithaca's life more difficult.

Hartwick hasn't been much of a threat either.  I don't have the information but I don't think they've beaten more than 1 or 2 teams in the top 4 the past 3 or 4 years.  Yes, they did win an ECAC title but they aren't viewed as much of a threat either.  I expected them to take a bigger step forward last year but it didn't happen, they went from 12 wins to 10.  I didn't see them play last year so I won't speculate too much but as of today everyone in the nation is undefeated and thinks their team is headed for a solid year.

[bomber3]

E8GUY:

In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later.  

Talked to a Bomber assistant coach and told him jokingly that I expected at least 20 this year. His response: "Come on man, give me a break." The schedule is very tough, even for a Bomber team that figures to have talent.

Word is Jordan Marcus lost 20 pounds, and Phil Barera gained 20. Both those things figure to be good.

Bottom line, and Bomber3 will hate this: I really don't care how the team does in the regular season. I mean, I want them to do well, and they probably will. But there's a stigma attached to this program right now, of their own doing. The program, as a whole, has never won an E8 tourney game and hasn't won an NCAA Tourney game since the very early 90's. Does that mean I won't come watch them shoot the lights out in February and be happy when they do? Of course not.

It does mean that I consider this team talented enough to be one of the Top 4 in the league, and at that point, I want to see them put it together when it matters. They're going to be good, but it's time for them to fulfill their potential. We've had three great regular seasons, but it's time to take the next step

You're right, I don't like it.  You know me too well  .  So basically what you're saying is that the regular season is relatively pointless?  Winning two out of three E8 regular season titles, reaching the second round of the NCAA's, reaching #7 ranking in the nation, and an ECAC title last year doesn't matter?  Yes, I will admit IC's postseason struggles need to be improved upon but it's not like they haven't experienced any success.   They have the most wins in the East Region over the past three years:

Ithaca - 61
Medaille - 60
PLattsburgh - 56
SUNY IT - 56
Fisher - 56
St. Lawrence - 55
Stevens - 54
Nazareth - 51

Over the past three years Ithaca has jumped from the middle of the East to one of their premier programs in the region.  Would some postseason success be nice? Absolutely, but with or without past or future NCAA/E8 success they have undoubtedly become one of the premier teams in the region.  I guarantee you almost all the teams in the region would trade their past three years for Ithaca's.

And as for this year, mark it down they will reach 20 wins and will be ranked by the end of the year.  This is their new guard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHw3ianWB5U

Of course the regular season matters, but after three consecutive years of very high-quality teams flaming out in the postseason, it's not like this is a one-time thing.

And remember, I'm not asking for a Final Four run here. How about one E8/NCAA Tournament game win? I mean, the regular seasons have been great, but for three years, this team has failed to play to its full potential, and that's disappointing.

It's frustrating to watch last year's team run Nazareth out of the gym in January, but then lose to them six weeks later.

Just like it was frustrating that the Golden Flyers were the team that adjusted their play in the 2009 playoffs after the Bombers killed them twice in the regular season.

Or to watch them lose at home by 20 to a Fisher team they had beaten on the road by double-digits 13 days earlier.

No-one's saying forget the regular seasons. That 2008-2009 team was special, but no matter how many times I look at the Burton to Cruz alley oop against RIT, I keep thinking about what that team could have, (and frankly should have) done.

It's not me just picking on the basketball team. It's symptomatic of the entire athletic program. The football team puts together great seasons, but hasn't won an NCAA playoff game since 2003. The Men's Lax team has gone 40-5 in the E8 regular season over the last six years and 4-5 in the conference tournament. Men's soccer hasn't won an E8 tournament in who knows how long, and were lost in the first round numerous times after running the table in the regular season.  Baseball flames out in the regionals all the time.

I know you think I'm negative, but I'm probably the biggest Bomber fan there is. I hate it when the teams lose. Nothing would please me more than to see the football team win playoff games, or the basketball team make a deep run. And so, when the teams, who we KNOW can do that--like the 2009 Basketball/Lacrosse teams or the 2008 football team, I am going to be hard on them. The program shouldn't be satisfied with a bunch of regular season trophies. They should be striving for more.

We just built a 60-million dollar athletic and events center. If we're going to make that kind of investment in the athletic dept at the expense of the rest of the college (which I didn't think we should have but that's another issue) then, frankly we should be demanding excellence. We should be questioning why our teams can't win the big games, and why Fisher's football team owns us, and why Cortland's program has passed us completely.

Remember, "to whom much is given, much is expected"

Ok couple things here.  The 2009-2010 Bomber basketball team might not have won a game but they earned a bye to the second round with their performance in the regular season.  I know they didn't win a game but technically they were one of the last 32 teams.  Random side note; I think the bye actually hurt that team.  They probably would have been better off facing a lesser talented team in the first round and get the "haven't won a playoff game monkey off their backs" and gone from there after just losing to Nazareth.  I think 3 of 4 teams that got a bye lost in the second round that year (it was at least 2).  Look at the Big East coaches trying to do away with the bye/double bye in the Big East tourney - they don't like having the games off when their opponents are staying sharp and playing the day before.  But I digress...

In regard to the multiple programs postseason failures -- it is not easy to win NCAA games.  Plain and simple.  Football only has 32 teams in the playoffs so only 16 programs will win a game.  With 240+ programs in D3 football only about 6% of programs will win an NCAA game in one season. This correlates to a win about every 15 years; which it just proves how hard it is.  With basketball there are 330+ teams and 32 teams will win NCAA games, which correlates to about 10% and a win per decade.  I'm not familiar with Lacrosse so I won't speculate but my guess is
it's along the same lines. 

I know Ithaca's athletics are held to a higher standard and I am not condoning settling for mediocrity but I don't think losing a few playoff games necessarily means something is wrong.  My theory is that wins are not easy to come by and perhaps some Ithaca teams spoiled the fan base. 

The athletics and events center is a needed addition to the campus and will only add to the prominence of the athletics department.  How do you want Ithaca to be the best and not have the top of the line facilities?  If you want the basketball, football, baseball, and lacrosse programs to meet your standards how can you question building this facility?  There is no such thing as free lunch and you can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you want them to maintain their athletic excellence you need to provide the facilities for the athletes.  Look how Fisher transformed their campus and now look at their programs.  The football center is outdated, Hill Center is 50 years old, football/softball/baseball teams have to commute 3 miles to Cornell to use their indoor facilities, and basketball/baseball/softball often have to practice at 6 am in the second semester to get in the gym.  Also if I'm not mistaken, the majority of the $60 million came from private donations and external grants.  Also, despite the postseason issues Ithaca still placed first in the Empire 8 commissioner's cup last year and is one of the only teams to be ranked in the top 25 of every poll of the Division 3 Director's Cup.  Ithaca finished 21st to Cortland's 17th place last year so it's not like they are head and shoulders above IC.  Overall, the athletics center will be a much needed addition to the campus.

[FROMAFAR]

WOW looks like we are sizzling here. Not one pratice has taken place and many definitives being mentioned. This sounds like my colleagues at work.. engineers speaking. We never take the unknown into account..  Did someone have to mention the Burton to Cruz alley oop!!! Keep my Tigers out of the discussion, we need to stay under the radar, which is not difficult for us.  All great stuff, lets remember mots of our games are played against one another, and that could be an false reading every year, one way or the other.  You uys discuss winning big one night and then losing to the same team days later. I believe that has to do with familiarity and coaches. The top 5 teams... IC, RIT, Stevens, Fisher, and Naz, have pretty much knocked each other off consistantly over the last few years.. ( discount Stevens two years ago-they were horrible). I think you will see the same this year from IC RIT and Fisher. Naz has to have some recruits to compete with those 3, and I think even with a recruit or two Stevens is at the bottom again. I see a 3 team race and a close race for 4th.. Naz (with recruites)...Hartwick with a more teamlike approach..  Utica ( if recruit info is correct) and Elmira, Alfred and Stevens bringing up the rear. remeber I don't have a hold onn the recruiting and maybeMichael Jordan II is going to Alfred. so lets keep that in mind. I think IC holds the edge,  but will certainly lose at least 3 league games, because that's the way the league is built. Probably Fisher 2 because of Korny and the home court calls they get... Hopefully RIT 3rd.  If we keep our rotation consistant. There is certainly a good argument to playing tough non conference, because that's the caliber you are going to face in the NCAA if you get there.  I can't imagine which way this banter will go once pratice starts.. BUT        

[bomber3]

WOW looks like we are sizzling here. Not one pratice has taken place and many definitives being mentioned. This sounds like my colleagues at work.. engineers speaking. We never take the unknown into account..  Did someone have to mention the Burton to Cruz alley oop!!! Keep my Tigers out of the discussion, we need to stay under the radar, which is not difficult for us.  All great stuff, lets remember mots of our games are played against one another, and that could be an false reading every year, one way or the other.  You uys discuss winning big one night and then losing to the same team days later. I believe that has to do with familiarity and coaches. The top 5 teams... IC, RIT, Stevens, Fisher, and Naz, have pretty much knocked each other off consistantly over the last few years.. ( discount Stevens two years ago-they were horrible). I think you will see the same this year from IC RIT and Fisher. Naz has to have some recruits to compete with those 3, and I think even with a recruit or two Stevens is at the bottom again. I see a 3 team race and a close race for 4th.. Naz (with recruites)...Hartwick with a more teamlike approach..  Utica ( if recruit info is correct) and Elmira, Alfred and Stevens bringing up the rear. remeber I don't have a hold onn the recruiting and maybeMichael Jordan II is going to Alfred. so lets keep that in mind. I think IC holds the edge,  but will certainly lose at least 3 league games, because that's the way the league is built. Probably Fisher 2 because of Korny and the home court calls they get... Hopefully RIT 3rd.  If we keep our rotation consistant. There is certainly a good argument to playing tough non conference, because that's the caliber you are going to face in the NCAA if you get there.  I can't imagine which way this banter will go once pratice starts.. BUT        

As per your request  ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mXBEUMK0qI

[Bombers798891]

E8GUY:

In response to: "Ithaca better watch their back"

There might be other teams improving but you are forgetting this is a 20 win team last year that is returning most of their offense (heard one bench player/marginal starter probably isn't playing).  They have one of the best young point guards in the nation and a preseason all-american at forward.  I promise you they are not preparing for the season with Elmira even on their radar.  Utica might be because I thought they underachieved a bit last year and also heard they're bringing in some studs.  Elmira has won 23 games over the past SIX years.  Ithaca is averaging 22 wins a season over the past two.
Until they beat a top 6 E9 team they aren't much of a threat.

Although their schedule hasn't been published Ithaca has a very tough schedule I'm told.  Their non-conference schedule includes several ranked teams as well as several other NCAA teams from last year.

Will post a video for one of IC's freshman recruits later.  

Talked to a Bomber assistant coach and told him jokingly that I expected at least 20 this year. His response: "Come on man, give me a break." The schedule is very tough, even for a Bomber team that figures to have talent.

Word is Jordan Marcus lost 20 pounds, and Phil Barera gained 20. Both those things figure to be good.

Bottom line, and Bomber3 will hate this: I really don't care how the team does in the regular season. I mean, I want them to do well, and they probably will. But there's a stigma attached to this program right now, of their own doing. The program, as a whole, has never won an E8 tourney game and hasn't won an NCAA Tourney game since the very early 90's. Does that mean I won't come watch them shoot the lights out in February and be happy when they do? Of course not.

It does mean that I consider this team talented enough to be one of the Top 4 in the league, and at that point, I want to see them put it together when it matters. They're going to be good, but it's time for them to fulfill their potential. We've had three great regular seasons, but it's time to take the next step

You're right, I don't like it.  You know me too well  .  So basically what you're saying is that the regular season is relatively pointless?  Winning two out of three E8 regular season titles, reaching the second round of the NCAA's, reaching #7 ranking in the nation, and an ECAC title last year doesn't matter?  Yes, I will admit IC's postseason struggles need to be improved upon but it's not like they haven't experienced any success.   They have the most wins in the East Region over the past three years:

Ithaca - 61
Medaille - 60
PLattsburgh - 56
SUNY IT - 56
Fisher - 56
St. Lawrence - 55
Stevens - 54
Nazareth - 51

Over the past three years Ithaca has jumped from the middle of the East to one of their premier programs in the region.  Would some postseason success be nice? Absolutely, but with or without past or future NCAA/E8 success they have undoubtedly become one of the premier teams in the region.  I guarantee you almost all the teams in the region would trade their past three years for Ithaca's.

And as for this year, mark it down they will reach 20 wins and will be ranked by the end of the year.  This is their new guard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHw3ianWB5U

Of course the regular season matters, but after three consecutive years of very high-quality teams flaming out in the postseason, it's not like this is a one-time thing.

And remember, I'm not asking for a Final Four run here. How about one E8/NCAA Tournament game win? I mean, the regular seasons have been great, but for three years, this team has failed to play to its full potential, and that's disappointing.

It's frustrating to watch last year's team run Nazareth out of the gym in January, but then lose to them six weeks later.

Just like it was frustrating that the Golden Flyers were the team that adjusted their play in the 2009 playoffs after the Bombers killed them twice in the regular season.

Or to watch them lose at home by 20 to a Fisher team they had beaten on the road by double-digits 13 days earlier.

No-one's saying forget the regular seasons. That 2008-2009 team was special, but no matter how many times I look at the Burton to Cruz alley oop against RIT, I keep thinking about what that team could have, (and frankly should have) done.

It's not me just picking on the basketball team. It's symptomatic of the entire athletic program. The football team puts together great seasons, but hasn't won an NCAA playoff game since 2003. The Men's Lax team has gone 40-5 in the E8 regular season over the last six years and 4-5 in the conference tournament. Men's soccer hasn't won an E8 tournament in who knows how long, and were lost in the first round numerous times after running the table in the regular season.  Baseball flames out in the regionals all the time.

I know you think I'm negative, but I'm probably the biggest Bomber fan there is. I hate it when the teams lose. Nothing would please me more than to see the football team win playoff games, or the basketball team make a deep run. And so, when the teams, who we KNOW can do that--like the 2009 Basketball/Lacrosse teams or the 2008 football team, I am going to be hard on them. The program shouldn't be satisfied with a bunch of regular season trophies. They should be striving for more.

We just built a 60-million dollar athletic and events center. If we're going to make that kind of investment in the athletic dept at the expense of the rest of the college (which I didn't think we should have but that's another issue) then, frankly we should be demanding excellence. We should be questioning why our teams can't win the big games, and why Fisher's football team owns us, and why Cortland's program has passed us completely.

Remember, "to whom much is given, much is expected"

Ok couple things here.  The 2009-2010 Bomber basketball team might not have won a game but they earned a bye to the second round with their performance in the regular season.  I know they didn't win a game but technically they were one of the last 32 teams.  Random side note; I think the bye actually hurt that team.  They probably would have been better off facing a lesser talented team in the first round and get the "haven't won a playoff game monkey off their backs" and gone from there after just losing to Nazareth.  I think 3 of 4 teams that got a bye lost in the second round that year (it was at least 2).  Look at the Big East coaches trying to do away with the bye/double bye in the Big East tourney - they don't like having the games off when their opponents are staying sharp and playing the day before.  But I digress...

In regard to the multiple programs postseason failures -- it is not easy to win NCAA games.  Plain and simple.  Football only has 32 teams in the playoffs so only 16 programs will win a game.  With 240+ programs in D3 football only about 6% of programs will win an NCAA game in one season. This correlates to a win about every 15 years; which it just proves how hard it is.  With basketball there are 330+ teams and 32 teams will win NCAA games, which correlates to about 10% and a win per decade.  I'm not familiar with Lacrosse so I won't speculate but my guess is
it's along the same lines. 

I know Ithaca's athletics are held to a higher standard and I am not condoning settling for mediocrity but I don't think losing a few playoff games necessarily means something is wrong.  My theory is that wins are not easy to come by and perhaps some Ithaca teams spoiled the fan base. 

The athletics and events center is a needed addition to the campus and will only add to the prominence of the athletics department.  How do you want Ithaca to be the best and not have the top of the line facilities?  If you want the basketball, football, baseball, and lacrosse programs to meet your standards how can you question building this facility?  There is no such thing as free lunch and you can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you want them to maintain their athletic excellence you need to provide the facilities for the athletes.  Look how Fisher transformed their campus and now look at their programs.  The football center is outdated, Hill Center is 50 years old, football/softball/baseball teams have to commute 3 miles to Cornell to use their indoor facilities, and basketball/baseball/softball often have to practice at 6 am in the second semester to get in the gym.  Also if I'm not mistaken, the majority of the $60 million came from private donations and external grants.  Also, despite the postseason issues Ithaca still placed first in the Empire 8 commissioner's cup last year and is one of the only teams to be ranked in the top 25 of every poll of the Division 3 Director's Cup.  Ithaca finished 21st to Cortland's 17th place last year so it's not like they are head and shoulders above IC.  Overall, the athletics center will be a much needed addition to the campus.

Here's the problem with your postseason assessment: Often times, the Bombers lose in the conference tournaments to the same teams they beat in the playoffs. That's telling. That's what the lacrosse team and soccer teams do. That's what the '09 basketball team did. As for the football team in 2008, zero people outside of Curry gave them a chance in that game. Baseball's been the #1 team in the regionals and lost. It's harder to win postseason games, but Naz, Fisher and Cortland seem to do it.

Yes, this year the Director's Cup gap was small. But Cortland's finished 3rd in recent years. They've won national titles in lacrosse and gone to national titles in baseball. They've won NCAA playoff games in football and conference playoff games in basketball.

Yeah, the sports facilities are outdated. So is the Park School. So why aren't we soliciting donations for that? Why didn't we say, "Ok, donate to the A&E center, but please donate to our general fund, or contribute to the Park Foundation."?That's only the school's flagship academic program, and they're short on space and professors. But hey, let's hit people up for an indoor track! The college is facing a lawsuit because they're not compliant with the ADA, but we better have a place for field hockey to play. Federal laws and academics definitely should come behind that at a $40,000 a year college.

Fisher got money from the Bills. Cortland gets money from the state. Ithaca is on their own, and there were (and still are) more important things for the school to collect money for than athletic facilities. But since we did put that money into athletics, they should be held accountable for their performances.

I'm a big sports fan, and the biggest Bomber fan you'll meet, but we're a D-III school. The athletic program is a nice addition to the school, but at the end of the day, prioritizing athletics over the overall academic experience at a D-III school is flat out the wrong decision. I could care less if the football or basketball team goes in the toilet due to outdated facilities. Better them than the Communications school. (Or any other school on campus)

But we're stuck with it. So no, I'm not going to take it easy on them. As I said before "To whom much is given, much is expected"

[FROMAFAR]

Bomber 7988 etc.//////   WEL PUT. You make a ton of sense.