Empire 8

[Bengalsrule]

I think Brad Ford, Mitch Ford, Patrick Sabitino, Frank Mitchell, Tom Sweeney and Jared Suderley are all better than Keegan Ryan! 

Young man... Have you looked at the E8 stats recently??

Keegan Ryan - St John Fisher
10th in Scoring
5th in Rebounding
5th in Ft %
3rd in Fg%...
( I stopped looking after that).

Please find another E8 big that tops those top 10 stats in at least 4 categories!!! If he stays healthy, he's your 1st team center!!

Seriously?

First off, his points and rebound per game numbers both lag behind several of the big men listed.

Ford: 20.7/11.2
Mitchell: 17.1/9.1
Jeffers: 14.4/13.3
Ryan: 14.3/8.7

Second, he gets to the line so infrequently for a big man, his advantage in FT shooting is meaningless. He's made just 14 free throws on the season, compared to Suderley (28) Ford (30) and Mitchell (37). Being an 87% free throw shooter is great, but there's a minimal impact when you only go to the line twice a game.

  Whoa..... I didn't come over here to get in a pissing match over a guy who doesn't play for Buffalo State. I was a responding to a "friendly" blogger (Dcahill-see his big grin) who frequents the SUNYAC boards. Ill be damned if I get into it with anyone, about someone who plays for St Johns Fisher. I'm not into the E8 anti-Fisher beefs/fights. Nor am I into defending them. I can, and did, say that from what I saw from this kid in his season opener (and read since then) he has a ton of potential. The "potential" to be the best Big in the E8. He went head to head against our big Justin Mitchell (who was just named SUNYAC POW, ECAC POW and D3Hoops Team of the Week) and he gave no quarter. He is already amongest the best bigs in many E8 categories ( yes he is .1 pt per game behind Jeffers in scoring and less than a half a rebound behind Mitchell.) His stats are what they are.

  I can also say that most coaches (that I know), when doing a scouting report, want to know who to foul/not to foul in the closing minutes of a game. Ryan, IMHO, would not be 1 who you would want to foul.

  Any player who is shooting over 50% from the field in his first 6 collegiate games, must be worthy of some notice/respect. I'm sure as the season goes, and this kid gets used to the rigors of college ball/E8 ball, many will take notice. To be already be compared to 4 seasoned "Bigs" (Suderly, Mitchell, Ford and Jeffers) who are all SENIORS, speaks volumes about this kid now.

  18 games later we will all know where he stacks up. If Fisher comes in first in the E8 (which they could) and he continues to work hard and lead them in scoring and rebounding....then watch out . 

  I'm gonna head back to my SUNYAC boards now where the only 1 I need to watch out for is Magicman

                                                                          Happy Holidays all!

[dcahill44]

I didn't think Keegan Ryan would be as good as he right now. I thought it would take him a year or 2 just like Jason Norsen to fully develop and be a Very good big man for St John Fisher. Buff State looks very good @ Bengalsrule watched them pplay a couple games and I was very impressed. Understand your point about Keegan Ryan. he has been impressive thus far. Those are guys I prefer over him right now though! trying not to get in battle with you and Magicman. trying to be on your guys side

[NYHOOPS8]

Keegan Ryan has the potential to be an all-league player next year when the senior post players graduate. Brad Ford, Jared Suderley, and Frank Mitchell all will have good numbers this year in their senior years to make sure of it.

[NYHOOPS8]

The Empire 8 is for anyone's taking this year. I do not see anyone running away with the conference and after the first semester, my predictions for conference play are as follows:

1-Stevens- Defending reg. season champ and they own the best non-conference win in the league (NYU) so they get benefit of the doubt.
2-Nazareth- Brad Ford is the best player in the conference and will keep his team close to the top all year.
3-St John Fisher- Two young underclassmen studs in Lott and Ryan. The win against Geneseo will help the conference SOS.
4-Hartwick- Jared Suderley will be the POY if Hartwick is ahead of Nazareth in the final standings.

-Ithaca is way down this year after losing Rossi, Warch and Maravich. Can contend if their frontcourt dominates.
-Alfred will split with two of the top teams listed above.

[sjfcards]

The Empire 8 is for anyone's taking this year. I do not see anyone running away with the conference and after the first semester, my predictions for conference play are as follows:

1-Stevens- Defending reg. season champ and they own the best non-conference win in the league (NYU) so they get benefit of the doubt.
2-Nazareth- Brad Ford is the best player in the conference and will keep his team close to the top all year.
3-St John Fisher- Two young underclassmen studs in Lott and Ryan. The win against Geneseo will help the conference SOS.
4-Hartwick- Jared Suderley will be the POY if Hartwick is ahead of Nazareth in the final standings.

-Ithaca is way down this year after losing Rossi, Warch and Maravich. Can contend if their frontcourt dominates.
-Alfred will split with two of the top teams listed above.

I appreciate you putting Fisher 3rd, but I don't know. I have not been impressed with Fisher yet this season. A tight win against Geneseo where they were losing most of the way, and then losing to Buff State and Oneonta State (no disrespect to those teams, but that is not Amherst and UWSP) does not exactly make me think they will win the E8.

I just see a huge talent drop off from the Fisher teams that won the league year in and year out in Kornakers first few season, to now. I love what they have in Ryan and Lott for the next few years, but they need more than a point guard and a big to win consistently. I don't even know if the Ryan/Lott combination is as good as the McSweeney/Mueller combo from a few years ago. They may be in a year or two, but not yet IMHO.

[magicman]

St. John Fisher struggling against the Bethany Bison as they trailed at the half 42-24.  Seven minutes gone by in the 2nd period and they are down 54-35. Bethany looking to go  8-0.

[magicman]

Fisher with no rally tonight as they fall to Bethany by a 79-52 score.

[Bombers798891]

The Empire 8 is for anyone's taking this year. I do not see anyone running away with the conference and after the first semester, my predictions for conference play are as follows:

1-Stevens- Defending reg. season champ and they own the best non-conference win in the league (NYU) so they get benefit of the doubt.
2-Nazareth- Brad Ford is the best player in the conference and will keep his team close to the top all year.
3-St John Fisher- Two young underclassmen studs in Lott and Ryan. The win against Geneseo will help the conference SOS.
4-Hartwick- Jared Suderley will be the POY if Hartwick is ahead of Nazareth in the final standings.

-Ithaca is way down this year after losing Rossi, Warch and Maravich. Can contend if their frontcourt dominates.
-Alfred will split with two of the top teams listed above.

I appreciate you putting Fisher 3rd, but I don't know. I have not been impressed with Fisher yet this season. A tight win against Geneseo where they were losing most of the way, and then losing to Buff State and Oneonta State (no disrespect to those teams, but that is not Amherst and UWSP) does not exactly make me think they will win the E8.

I just see a huge talent drop off from the Fisher teams that won the league year in and year out in Kornakers first few season, to now. I love what they have in Ryan and Lott for the next few years, but they need more than a point guard and a big to win consistently. I don't even know if the Ryan/Lott combination is as good as the McSweeney/Mueller combo from a few years ago. They may be in a year or two, but not yet IMHO.

So everyone in the E8 is somewhere between 4-3 and 3-5, except for Alfred, who's apparently doing the Grinnell Lite thing. It's a wide-open race, but it really seems like the E8 is down

[AUPepBand]

The Empire 8 is for anyone's taking this year. I do not see anyone running away with the conference and after the first semester, my predictions for conference play are as follows:

1-Stevens- Defending reg. season champ and they own the best non-conference win in the league (NYU) so they get benefit of the doubt.
2-Nazareth- Brad Ford is the best player in the conference and will keep his team close to the top all year.
3-St John Fisher- Two young underclassmen studs in Lott and Ryan. The win against Geneseo will help the conference SOS.
4-Hartwick- Jared Suderley will be the POY if Hartwick is ahead of Nazareth in the final standings.

-Ithaca is way down this year after losing Rossi, Warch and Maravich. Can contend if their frontcourt dominates.
-Alfred will split with two of the top teams listed above.

I appreciate you putting Fisher 3rd, but I don't know. I have not been impressed with Fisher yet this season. A tight win against Geneseo where they were losing most of the way, and then losing to Buff State and Oneonta State (no disrespect to those teams, but that is not Amherst and UWSP) does not exactly make me think they will win the E8.

I just see a huge talent drop off from the Fisher teams that won the league year in and year out in Kornakers first few season, to now. I love what they have in Ryan and Lott for the next few years, but they need more than a point guard and a big to win consistently. I don't even know if the Ryan/Lott combination is as good as the McSweeney/Mueller combo from a few years ago. They may be in a year or two, but not yet IMHO.

So everyone in the E8 is somewhere between 4-3 and 3-5, except for Alfred, who's apparently doing the Grinnell Lite thing. It's a wide-open race, but it really seems like the E8 is down

Enlighten Pep, Bomber....what exactly is the "Grinnell Lite thing"?  Pep can only imagine it refers to the cupcake schedule the Saxons have put together to start the season, but Pep needs a little enlightening here....if you please. Always learning! 

On Saxon Warriors!

[magicman]

Pep,

I believe he's referring to "The System" which is the style of basketball that Grinnell College in the Midwest Conference employs, that results in high scoring games. Maybe you  heard about the 138 points that one of their players scored last year.   
Alfred is "Grinnell Lite"  because, while the Saxons have broken the century mark in nearly all of their games, they aren't putting up the point totals that Grinnell's System has yielded. Grinnell has recorded totals of, 121, 122, 128, 132, 144 and 173. There was the one game where the opponent must have slowed the game down as they only scored 89 in that one.  


Here's the link to the game last season where Grinnell's Jack Taylor set the NCAA record:
http://d3hoops.com/notables/2012/11/grinnell-taylor-puts-scoring-record-at-138


Here's the link to another game he had this season where he also went over 100 points:
http://d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2013-14/contrib/20131117edro3o

Neither one of Grinnell's opponents in those two games were very good and they were really gimmick games to deliberately try and set a scoring record. They caused quite a bit of discussion in the  D3 world at the time about the method of play, the hand picked opponent and the lack of any mercy in ratcheting up the margin of victory.   

[sjfcards]

The Empire 8 is for anyone's taking this year. I do not see anyone running away with the conference and after the first semester, my predictions for conference play are as follows:

1-Stevens- Defending reg. season champ and they own the best non-conference win in the league (NYU) so they get benefit of the doubt.
2-Nazareth- Brad Ford is the best player in the conference and will keep his team close to the top all year.
3-St John Fisher- Two young underclassmen studs in Lott and Ryan. The win against Geneseo will help the conference SOS.
4-Hartwick- Jared Suderley will be the POY if Hartwick is ahead of Nazareth in the final standings.

-Ithaca is way down this year after losing Rossi, Warch and Maravich. Can contend if their frontcourt dominates.
-Alfred will split with two of the top teams listed above.

I appreciate you putting Fisher 3rd, but I don't know. I have not been impressed with Fisher yet this season. A tight win against Geneseo where they were losing most of the way, and then losing to Buff State and Oneonta State (no disrespect to those teams, but that is not Amherst and UWSP) does not exactly make me think they will win the E8.

I just see a huge talent drop off from the Fisher teams that won the league year in and year out in Kornakers first few season, to now. I love what they have in Ryan and Lott for the next few years, but they need more than a point guard and a big to win consistently. I don't even know if the Ryan/Lott combination is as good as the McSweeney/Mueller combo from a few years ago. They may be in a year or two, but not yet IMHO.

So everyone in the E8 is somewhere between 4-3 and 3-5, except for Alfred, who's apparently doing the Grinnell Lite thing. It's a wide-open race, but it really seems like the E8 is down

Could not agree more. I have watched all but one of the Fisher games and they just don't strike me Asa very good team (middle of the pack in the SUNYAC I would guess). Up and down and really struggle against teams with talent. If Fisher has a chance to win the league it may be the worst champion, talent wise, since I have been following the E8.

[Bombers798891]

Pep,

I believe he's referring to "The System" which is the style of basketball that Grinnell College in the Midwest Conference employs, that results in high scoring games. Maybe you  heard about the 138 points that one of their players scored last year.   
Alfred is "Grinnell Lite"  because, while the Saxons have broken the century mark in nearly all of their games, they aren't putting up the point totals that Grinnell's System has yielded. Grinnell has recorded totals of, 121, 122, 128, 132, 144 and 173. There was the one game where the opponent must have slowed the game down as they only scored 89 in that one.  


Here's the link to the game last season where Grinnell's Jack Taylor set the NCAA record:
http://d3hoops.com/notables/2012/11/grinnell-taylor-puts-scoring-record-at-138


Here's the link to another game he had this season where he also went over 100 points:
http://d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2013-14/contrib/20131117edro3o

Neither one of Grinnell's opponents in those two games were very good and they were really gimmick games to deliberately try and set a scoring record. They caused quite a bit of discussion in the  D3 world at the time about the method of play, the hand picked opponent and the lack of any mercy in ratcheting up the margin of victory.

Basically yes, though I have zero respect for Grinnell. Cupcakes is one thing. Scheduling overmatched bible colleges that barely field an athletic department and abandoning your own system (the part that is never reported in any of these stories about these games), jacking up threes with a 70-point lead, for the sole purpose of trying to get one player to score 150 points or whatever their next gimmick is makes me sick. My favorite game of the year is "The one that ends Grinnell's season"

Alfred, I suspect, is trying something different to inject some life into what's a pretty mediocre/stale program, and trying to work out the kinks before the E8 slate. Do your thing. But never go full Grinnell

[madzillagd]

Basically yes, though I have zero respect for Grinnell. Cupcakes is one thing. Scheduling overmatched bible colleges that barely field an athletic department and abandoning your own system (the part that is never reported in any of these stories about these games), jacking up threes with a 70-point lead, for the sole purpose of trying to get one player to score 150 points or whatever their next gimmick is makes me sick. My favorite game of the year is "The one that ends Grinnell's season"

Alfred, I suspect, is trying something different to inject some life into what's a pretty mediocre/stale program, and trying to work out the kinks before the E8 slate. Do your thing. But never go full Grinnell

Here's a trivia question for you - on the night that Jack Taylor set his scoring record, which D3 school had the highest margin of victory?  Here's a hint... it wasn't Grinnell. 

[Bombers798891]

Basically yes, though I have zero respect for Grinnell. Cupcakes is one thing. Scheduling overmatched bible colleges that barely field an athletic department and abandoning your own system (the part that is never reported in any of these stories about these games), jacking up threes with a 70-point lead, for the sole purpose of trying to get one player to score 150 points or whatever their next gimmick is makes me sick. My favorite game of the year is "The one that ends Grinnell's season"

Alfred, I suspect, is trying something different to inject some life into what's a pretty mediocre/stale program, and trying to work out the kinks before the E8 slate. Do your thing. But never go full Grinnell

Here's a trivia question for you - on the night that Jack Taylor set his scoring record, which D3 school had the highest margin of victory?  Here's a hint... it wasn't Grinnell.

What's your point? That there are other blowouts in Division III?

According to Grinnell's website, when their season was on the line in the conference playoffs that year, no player played more than 17 minutes. No player took more than 22% of their shots. When they played Knox College that year, they won by 61 points. No one played more than 16 minutes. No one player took more than 16% of their shots.

But against a non-DIII college in an otherwise meaningless regular season game, one player played 36 minutes, and took nearly 80% of their shots. Because once a year Grinnell runs up the score on specifically selected, overmatched opponents, often bible colleges (Who aren't even D-III members) for the express purpose of setting records. Because Grinnell wants to get some publicity for its program, so they abandon their system and just let one guy play pop-a-shot all game.

And guess what? That's Grinnell's call. But it's everyone else's decision on how to react to them deciding to turn one game into a sideshow. I think it's a joke, and yes, it is enough to change how I feel about the program and what they do. So enjoy your empty records. I'll enjoy every time their season ends

[madzillagd]

My point is if you don't like Grinnell because of bad sportsmanship then say you don't like Grinnell because of bad sportsmanship, but also hold other teams/coaches to the same standard. I'm ambivalent to Grinnell, I don't support them and I don't hate them, but I do believe they display poor sportsmanship in those games.

That being said, I think it's ridiculous to use how many minutes a player plays to try and backup why they are poor sports. Yes, the system is typically played a certain way but as any coach does you make changes to your system during a game. You know the name Jack Taylor but do you know the name Alle Moreno?  Probably not.  Alle Moreno plays in the system as well and played 30 minutes the other night as the Sac State women upset Oregon. Was it poor sportsmanship when her teammates played 18-24 mins and she stayed in extra shifts and played 30 mins?  It's actually a normal occurrence in the system for players to do that. Gary Smith has helped implement the system at a couple high schools (and he is helping Sac St) around where I live and better players often get more minutes.

The answer to the question above is UW-Platteville. Th night Grinnell won by 75, UW-P won by 85 over non-D3 Illinois Tech. I pointed that out then and got ripped by the UW fans because they thought their win should not be held in the same regard as the Grinnell game because they played all their subs. I disagree - if you are winning by 39 pts at half, and you jack up 16 three pointers in the second half and out score your opponent by 46 in the 2nd half instead of sitting on the ball that's being poor sports. If the other team has 41 turnovers and only gets off 22 shots in a game they obviously have no chance of coming back.

Grinnell is obviously a lightning rod for how they play the game but I think we need to separate the style of play from how it is being coached. The system itself is harmless, it's a unique way so bring excitement to the game and get lots of people involved.  Coaching to run up a score (or failing to make changes to prevent that from happening) is bad form regardless of which style is being played.