Empire 8

[Bombers798891]

My point is if you don't like Grinnell because of bad sportsmanship then say you don't like Grinnell because of bad sportsmanship, but also hold other teams/coaches to the same standard. I'm ambivalent to Grinnell, I don't support them and I don't hate them, but I do believe they display poor sportsmanship in those games.

That being said, I think it's ridiculous to use how many minutes a player plays to try and backup why they are poor sports. Yes, the system is typically played a certain way but as any coach does you make changes to your system during a game. You know the name Jack Taylor but do you know the name Alle Moreno?  Probably not.  Alle Moreno plays in the system as well and played 30 minutes the other night as the Sac State women upset Oregon. Was it poor sportsmanship when her teammates played 18-24 mins and she stayed in extra shifts and played 30 mins?  It's actually a normal occurrence in the system for players to do that. Gary Smith has helped implement the system at a couple high schools (and he is helping Sac St) around where I live and better players often get more minutes.

The answer to the question above is UW-Platteville. Th night Grinnell won by 75, UW-P won by 85 over non-D3 Illinois Tech. I pointed that out then and got ripped by the UW fans because they thought their win should not be held in the same regard as the Grinnell game because they played all their subs. I disagree - if you are winning by 39 pts at half, and you jack up 16 three pointers in the second half and out score your opponent by 46 in the 2nd half instead of sitting on the ball that's being poor sports. If the other team has 41 turnovers and only gets off 22 shots in a game they obviously have no chance of coming back.

Grinnell is obviously a lightning rod for how they play the game but I think we need to separate the style of play from how it is being coached. The system itself is harmless, it's a unique way so bring excitement to the game and get lots of people involved.  Coaching to run up a score (or failing to make changes to prevent that from happening) is bad form regardless of which style is being played.

"Alle Moreno plays in the system as well and played 30 minutes the other night as the Sac State women upset Oregon. Was it poor sportsmanship when her teammates played 18-24 mins and she stayed in extra shifts and played 30 mins "

No. Because, and pay close attention here:

Alle Moreno's last three-point attempt came with 1:44 to go and her team up seven points
Jack Taylor's last three-point attempt came with 1:57 to go and his team up 67 points

Serious question: Barring 25 technical fouls being called, is it actually possible to make up a 67 point deficit with 1:57 to go? I mean, that's a 17-possession game even if we assume Grinnell's dumb enough to foul on 17 straight made three-point attempts. I don't even think you'd have the time to do that.

The problem with Grinnell leaving Taylor in the game and abandoning their system was because they were winning in blowout fashion. There was no need to leave Taylor in the game for 36 minutes. Grinnell was never up by fewer than 38 points in the second half. This Sac State-Oregon game was a game Sac State led the entire second half, but a seven point lead with 1:44 is hardly insurmountable

As for "Call out other teams for doing it," there's one important distinction between the game you mentioned and the Grinnell one (actually, this is the distinction between most blowouts and the Grinnell one):

While that Platteville game was an atrocity, I had no idea it occurred. Why? Because Platteville didn't schedule that game and say: "Hey, here's our chance to break a record and get in the news." That's precisely what Grinnell uses these games for. Someone posted the video of the game, and you can listen to the pregame where the announcers say as much.

So you reap what you sow. Don't actively search for the spotlight and then shy away from scrutiny. I'm not going to click on every box score of every game where a team wins by 30+ points to see how long they left their starters in, and how many three pointers they shot, and then post about it. When I hear about things, I post about them, but I don't go actively searching for them. Grinnell makes it pretty easy to find however.

[AUPepBand]

Wow, Pep is glad he asked about the "Grinnell Lite" label. Learned a lot. +K all around!

On Saxon Warriors!

[magicman]

St John Fisher defeated Southern Maine Sunday by a score of 77-65.

Cardinals' Keegan Ryan led all scorers with 20 points (7x12 fg, 6x7 ft). Adam Ambielli had 18 points (5x11 fg, 5x7 3's, 3x3 ft) and Chaz Lott had 17 (5x10 fg, 0x1 3's, 7x8 ft). Lott led the team with 8 rebounds and 5 assists. Ryan also had 5 rebounds.

[sjfcards]

Fisher own tonight against Houghton, but does anyone know why Chaz Lott did not play?

[magicman]

Fisher own tonight against Houghton, but does anyone know why Chaz Lott did not play?

I watched about half of that game online and kept looking for Lott but the video wasn't very good. The camera was so far from the action that you could barely make out players numbers and they had to be stationary, with their back to you, to make them out. No announcing accompanied the videocast. No score overlaid on the screen and live stats were non-existant. It was pretty damn hard to even know what the score was. I did manage to identify by number, Kinard, Ryan,Hart and Cooney. Pulled up the Houghton team page on D3hoops and discovered they updated the score every couple of minutes. Occasionally during a timeout they would point the camera at the scoreboard. I never knew that Lott wasn't in that game until I got a look at the box score.  Fisher almost lost this game after leading by 12 at 54-42 with only 3:23 left in the game. A 12-2 run by the Highlanders brought them to within 2 points at 56-54 with 48 seconds left to play. Fortunately the Cardinals hit a pair of free throws to make it a 2 possession game and closed out Houghton.     

[sjfcards]

Fisher own tonight against Houghton, but does anyone know why Chaz Lott did not play?

I watched about half of that game online and kept looking for Lott but the video wasn't very good. The camera was so far from the action that you could barely make out players numbers and they had to be stationary, with their back to you, to make them out. No announcing accompanied the videocast. No score overlaid on the screen and live stats were non-existant. It was pretty damn hard to even know what the score was. I did manage to identify by number, Kinard, Ryan,Hart and Cooney. Pulled up the Houghton team page on D3hoops and discovered they updated the score every couple of minutes. Occasionally during a timeout they would point the camera at the scoreboard. I never knew that Lott wasn't in that game until I got a look at the box score.  Fisher almost lost this game after leading by 12 at 54-42 with only 3:23 left in the game. A 12-2 run by the Highlanders brought them to within 2 points at 56-54 with 48 seconds left to play. Fortunately the Cardinals hit a pair of free throws to make it a 2 possession game and closed out Houghton.   

Fisher up 9 at the half against Elmira, but no Chaz Lott for the second straight game. Not sure what the deal is, but this team will struggle without him if he is hurt or out for other reasons for any length of time. Fisher is fortunate that they played Houghton and Elmira without him. No disrespect to those teams but you would figure they will be toward the bottom of the league standings.

[NYHOOPS8]

ITHACA
1/3    at Hartwick * •    L, 92-50   
1/4    at Stevens * •    L, 75-50

I don't know what to think about these two scores above. You had to figure Ithaca would not be as good this year as the previous few years but opening conference play with these two games shocks me.

[magicman]

ITHACA
1/3    at Hartwick * •    L, 92-50   
1/4    at Stevens * •    L, 75-50

I don't know what to think about these two scores above. You had to figure Ithaca would not be as good this year as the previous few years but opening conference play with these two games shocks me.

NYHOOPS.

I think the losses by the Bombers by those margins shocked everybody. I even checked the Hartwick and Stevens websites to make sure the scores weren't errors of some sort. Wonder when was the last time that Hartwick had 18 players get court time against Ithaca and it wasn't because the Bombers were blowing out the Hawks? 

[Bombers798891]

Eh, how surprising is it really given the Bombers' losses? No team in the conference, and probably the region, lost as much as Ithaca did from last season. And the losses have the ripple effect of making even returning players less valuable. When Tom Sweeney picks up one foul every six minutes on the court last year, it's okay, because the Bombers have the pieces to replace him on the court. This year? Not so much.

The team has just 5 upperclassmen on the roster. Two of them had, combined, 21 minutes on the court last season. And a guy they're counting on, Sweeney, has just not shown improvement as a player. Could be an ugly season, but I'm not THAT surprised

[magicman]

It's not the losses as much as the margin of victory that I thought was an anomaly, and I'm sure NYHoops8 feels the same. A 42 point loss to a 6-5 Hartwick team is shocking to me. Even a 1-25 Houghton team last year didn't lose to anyone by 42 points. I know the Bombers lost a lot but they also have enough talent that most years they are respectable and end up around .500 even after they graduate impact players. It's not like the Empire 8 is loaded this year. There's a good chance the E8 will only be a one bid league come dance time.

The last time, in a less than stellar season, that the Bombers suffered a defeat nearly as bad as this Hartwick loss, which is their worst loss in more than 7 years and possibly longer, was in the 06-07 season when they ended up with a 15-13 record. They lost to a   Division I Cornell team that year by 33 points,  80-47.

I think if you put up a poll asking if Ithaca's 92-50 loss to Hartwick was shocking YES or NO.... most of the respondents would choose the affirmative.     

[Bombers798891]

It's not the losses as much as the margin of victory that I thought was an anomaly, and I'm sure NYHoops8 feels the same. A 42 point loss to a 6-5 Hartwick team is shocking to me. Even a 1-25 Houghton team last year didn't lose to anyone by 42 points. I know the Bombers lost a lot but they also have enough talent that most years they are respectable and end up around .500 even after they graduate impact players. It's not like the Empire 8 is loaded this year. There's a good chance the E8 will only be a one bid league come dance time.

The last time, in a less than stellar season, that the Bombers suffered a defeat nearly as bad as this Hartwick loss, which is their worst loss in more than 7 years and possibly longer, was in the 06-07 season when they ended up with a 15-13 record. They lost to a   Division I Cornell team that year by 33 points,  80-47.

I think if you put up a poll asking if Ithaca's 92-50 loss to Hartwick was shocking YES or NO.... most of the respondents would choose the affirmative.   

Teams get blown out. Especially bad teams. Ithaca's a very bad team, and hence, it's not shocking they were blown out. At some point, margin of defeat becomes meaningless

[NYHOOPS8]

It's not the losses as much as the margin of victory that I thought was an anomaly, and I'm sure NYHoops8 feels the same. A 42 point loss to a 6-5 Hartwick team is shocking to me. Even a 1-25 Houghton team last year didn't lose to anyone by 42 points. I know the Bombers lost a lot but they also have enough talent that most years they are respectable and end up around .500 even after they graduate impact players. It's not like the Empire 8 is loaded this year. There's a good chance the E8 will only be a one bid league come dance time.

The last time, in a less than stellar season, that the Bombers suffered a defeat nearly as bad as this Hartwick loss, which is their worst loss in more than 7 years and possibly longer, was in the 06-07 season when they ended up with a 15-13 record. They lost to a   Division I Cornell team that year by 33 points,  80-47.

I think if you put up a poll asking if Ithaca's 92-50 loss to Hartwick was shocking YES or NO.... most of the respondents would choose the affirmative.   

Teams get blown out. Especially bad teams. Ithaca's a very bad team, and hence, it's not shocking they were blown out. At some point, margin of defeat becomes meaningless

I figured Ithaca would have a down year this year with all of their graduation losses but its still surprising to me that they would open conference play with a 40 point loss to Hartwick. Hard to figure out if Hartwick is that good (6-5 makes me skeptical) or if Ithaca is as bad as Bombers798891 says they are.

[dcahill44]

I agree Magicman that the E8 is most likely one bid league. I think the teams in contention for the league title are Hartwick, Naz, Fisher. Stevens with an outside chance i think. I think if a team wants to get in an At Large they need to be in the Conference championship and have at least 20-21 wins. If the E8 gets one Bid. I think the SUNYAC has a chance to be 3 bid league depending on the amount of losses.

[Bengalsrule]

I think the SUNYAC has a chance to be 3 bid league depending on the amount of losses.

I like this Cahill guy!

[NYHOOPS8]

Alfred 99 Nazareth 87

The E8 is even harder to figure out after reading this score.