Empire 8

[AUPepBand]

Okay, Pep just checked the RIT academic calendar....they operate with four quarters and are in the midst of their winter quarter. Their classes resumed Jan. 5.

[sjfcards]

I was a little upset when I saw that Fisher lost to Elmira...Big sigh of relief now that I see the change. I feel better about the RIT loss now that they beat ithaca.

I saw the video of the last shot of the RIT/Ithaca game, and I have to say that the shot looked a little late to me. Sometimes it is tough to wave it off, after it goes in and the crowd goes nuts. I am not saying the refs looked the other way or anything, but if a ref does not wave it off, as the shot is in the air (maybe a slight delay because he was not sure), and boom, the place is going nuts.

It makes for a great ending, and sets up some drama for the next round.

[Bombers798891]

The shot appeared to be late, (ok forget it, it WAS late, and the call was flat out wrong) however:

1) Ithaca dug themselves a hole and couldn't dig themselves out in time. You can't ever pinpoint one play as the difference.

2) The game still would have gone to overtime, and Ithaca could have lost anyway.

In all honesty, this loss may help the Bombers. Now they don't need to worry about being undefeated, and trying to continue all these school records. There's a lot less pressure. They know RIT has to come to Ithaca and deal with their crowd and they know they can play with them.

Also, don't you love how this game clears up nothing for the POY race? Carson goes for what, 24-16 and Burton counters with a triple-double? Classic stuff.

[FisherDynasty]

I think Carson comes out on top.  His team won the game and has less supporting cast.  Ithaca clearly focused on him and his stats were still unreal.  In addition, Burton had 7 turnovers to add to his triple double.  Obivously both still played great and its still very close

[Bombers798891]

I think Carson comes out on top.  His team won the game and has less supporting cast.  Ithaca clearly focused on him and his stats were still unreal.  In addition, Burton had 7 turnovers to add to his triple double.  Obivously both still played great and its still very close

I gotta disagree for the following reason

Burton was the only reason that game was close.

IC was down 10 with three minutes to go, then look what happened:

Burton hits two free throws (IC down 8)

Casron misses one of two free throws (IC down 9)

Burton hits a jumper (IC down 7)

Burton assists on Leahy 3 pointer (IC down 4)

Carson misses two free throws (IC down 6)

Burton hits a layup (IC down 4)

Burton assists on Marcus three pointer (IC down 3)

Burton hits three pointer (IC down 1)

Carson misses one of two free throws (IC down 2)

Burton hits two free throws after Carson fouls him (Tie)

So in the final three minutes, with his team down 10 on the road, Burton makes 7 shots for 11 points with two assists and no turnovers. He's involved with all 17 of his team's points.

What does Carson do? Goes 2-6 from the line, which essentially prevents RIT from icing the game, and fouls the best free throw shooter in the conference that allows IC to tie them.

And we're giving the nod to Carson why? Because the refs bailed out his team with a bad call to salvage them allowing a 17-7 run on their home court in the final three minutes and having to go into OT with Burton on fire? A win's a win and RIT came out on top, but the bottom line is, when the chips were down and this thing got close, Burton stepped up. Carson didn't. He sat there missing free throws while Butron lit up the scoreboard. His teammates--and the refs--saved him after he couldn't hit his shots from the line. Burton took the game over.

And can we stop penalizing Burton because he's got good teammates and acting like Carson plays with a bunch of stiffs? RIT had four other guys in double figures, so let's not act like Burton's the only one with talent around him.

[FROMAFAR]

Magicman, I am still celebrating......  Although I am a biased observer let me say this, the shot was after the buzzer, no doubt in my mind. I have been on the other side of some bad calls, this evens them all out for me... I can never complain again. As for the debate over who's better, we can talk forever. Burton truly is in another league, and was trying to WILL that game for IC, carying them on his back, but let's also remember Carson drew the IC defense like a swarm of flies when he touched the ball. The supporting cast came up big. I am happy BUT guarded. Although we play well at The Bulb, IC will not forget this one, and should pay us back.... (just being realistic). However this game has given me confidence that  we will certainly be in the E8 with IC. That leaves 2 spots. Who will they be. Naz can't play defense, Stevens and Fisher can't play offense. Fisher plays better "D" better than Stevens, so I'll go with Fisher for 3rd. That means the 4 spot open for Stevens, Utica, Hartwick, Naz, Alfred.... can you believe that..... I don't know why but I am going with Utica.
Hartwick is not ready to win big games, Naz doesn't play any D whatsoever, Stevens lost their toughness losing Williams, Greco and Walleed. Utica just needs to execute. Alfred has been under the radar, BUT as I said early on, they are not an easy out.   But what do I know 


 

[FROMAFAR]

GoBombers, I saw your post about Stevens missing Waleed. They certainly miss him, but the word from the Stevens Alum are he was a little over-rated. They said he came when the program was just starting to imporove, as a matter of fact he was one of the first pieces to the puzzle. He was depended on to do it all early on and once he got help... Grey, Greco, Passalaqua, etc. he didn't use them enough. By that I mean, he would get the ball and it was like a black hole...Yes he could create his own shots and rebounded well for a 6'1" (I believe) player.... but unlike  Burton, could have made those other guys better... You can blame coaching for that. Hey I not  knocking Waleed. I give him crdeit, he came to a program looking to build and truly began the process. Unfortunately it looks like the proces has slowed down... Stevens needs this kid Smith to get stronger to play the post next year, and need a heady tough point guard next year. They need overall toughness as well. Then they need some shooters.... Otherwise this program could go right back where it was. But what do I know

   

[RITFAN]

Hey Bombers 798891 - Interesting analysis of the last 3 minutes.  You somehow forgot to mention the 2 defensive and 1 offense rebounds Carson got it that time frame.

I was at the game - Burton is a fabulous player, who brings a completely different set of skills to the game than Carson does - I guess that is the point.

By the way, you are absolutely correct that the RIT team are not a bunch of stiffs.  But I am curious - which Ithaca starters would you replace with RIT starters if you had the chance?

[Nosyor]

A little insider information for you all.  Carson was sick as a dog during that IC game.  Not sure how it affected his play (if it did at all, doesn't look like it from his numbers), but I figured it might be something worth mentioning.

[gobombers15]

A little insider information for you all.  Carson was sick as a dog during that IC game.  Not sure how it affected his play (if it did at all, doesn't look like it from his numbers), but I figured it might be something worth mentioning.

The best game I ever played in my basketball playing life came when I had a fever of almost 102. It was like the game was played in slow motion, it was great. No extra credit because he was sick.

[gobombers15]

The more I see that YouTube, the worse that call gets to me. Really, it wasn't even that close.

The name of the referee was Todd Sweeney. Ithaca should have expected something was awry when this guy showed up to ref their game:

[FROMAFAR]

GOBOMBERS is correct, if youy lace them up, no excuses. Actually i hope he is a little under the weather the rest of the year. I'll take that night again and again....... especially the "w". We all know the Rochester REF's are the biggest homers as well. I admit it....  However it's worse when you go to Fisher... if any edge can be given or anything is close.... the Cardinals get the call... no offense to the Fisher backers it has always been that way......... BUT remember I have my payback on that 3 pointer and will never complain again , but what do I know..

[Nosyor]

A few things:

1) Re: Bostic-- I've said it on multiple occasions now, Ithaca's style of play has marginalized him. Royson, you said, "as soon as the guards have a shot, it goes up," and that's part of it. It's amazing that a two-time 1st-Team Empire 8 player has attempted the FOURTH most amount of shots on his OWN team. Think about that. Cruz and Leahy are attempting 2.5 more shots per game. His numbers are down because he's not utilized properly. The games I've seen, I don't see much of a two-man game with him and Burton. They should be doing that much more than they do.

2) You saw how clutch Burton is today. With 2:58 remaining, Burton stepped to the line for two shots, his team trailing 77-67. He scored 11 of Ithaca's last 17 points. The other six points were 3-pointers that Burton assisted. He had a hand in ALL 17 of IC's points in the last three minutes and rallied them from a 10-point deficit. In the words of Bill Raftery, "onions!"

3) Burton scored 28 and his assists led directly to 25 points. That's an incredible 63% of Ithaca's points coming from Burton, and it's likely more because that doesn't account for the passes directly leading to FT's for other players. Incredible.

4) Whether I agree with it or not, I also think whoever's team wins the conference will take the POY award. For reasons already stated in this post, and elsewhere, you know who I think should win the award, regardless. This will be like last year's NBA MVP race between CP3 and Kobe where everyone implicitly recognizes that the award will go to the person on the better team (incredibly flawed on multiple levels).

I agree, I think a two man game w/ Burton and Bostic would be unstoppable.  I would go to it the last 10 minutes of every game.  It puts the ball in Burton's hands and allows him to make all the decisions.  It also keeps Bostic involved and lets him get up that 15' J he likes so much.  Gobombers when are they going to put you on the payroll as an assistant?

[bamm]

Yeah, the shot was after the buzzer.  I guess I can understand the referees losing their focus when the play was so hectic, but still, it was pretty clear.

Regardless, the story of this game isn't the bad call -- it's how good RIT is.  This is a team picked to finish 6th in the conference by the coaches. 

And those close regional losses to UR and Oneonta look like battles between good teams, instead of the usual RIT early-season stumbles. 

[Nosyor]

The supporting cast played very well for RIT vs IC which is what they needed to win that game.  It makes me wonder how much better this team would have been if Foster was on the court for them.  He would have been a number 2 or number 3 scoring option and added more depth for the Tigers.