Empire 8

[sjfcards]

That is a good point Dynasty about the 2001 team. The Alliance did have the true bigs that you mention. Especially Hepburn who was just huge for DIII, and a very talented (and also very young)McSweeny. Zahn was more of a shooting big who liked to play about 5-10 feet from the basket, but still very talented.

I think the point that we are both agreeing on is that Fisher has found success in the past with above average play and size at guard, and limited size and skill inside. I still think Fisher is overachieving a bit this year and that they are still a year or two away from really being back on the path to a regional power. Another recruiting class, especially if Kornaker can find a big skilled big man will really put them into another level.

[with age came?]

Hate to be a contrarian but it truly is way too early about the e-8 getting 3 bids let alone 2 bids to the dance.  St John Fisher has been playing great and I am rooting for them to do well but they are coming into the teeth of the storm in their next 6 games. @ Hartwick @ Stevens the next night then Ithaca twice along with RIT and @ Naz. They win 5 of the 6 then I think you can talk about a bid as real.  They lose 3 of the six they may have to win the tournament to get a bid. 6 loss bids are not handed out like candy to east teams. RIT with 4 losses probably can not afford many more either.  So I guess the only "real" bid I see now is Ithaca and if Ithaca wins the tourney RIT or ST John Fisher better be losing to them in the championship game for their 6th loss. Hey I hope after the next 2 weeks I am proved wrong.  Also do not discount the Liberty League just yet.  St Lawrence & Hamilton have both played brutal schedules probably more difficult out of conference schedules than any e-8 team so a 6 loss non-championship bid would have to be at least considered for either one of those teams versus a 6 loss bid for St John Fisher or RIT.

[FROMAFAR]

With age is correct, for whatever my 2 cents is worth. Let's not jump the gun here. I believe the only way the E 8 gets 2 bids is if IC loses the tourney. The winner get's the auto and IC gets in....as long as IC gets in.  Renmember Stevens was ranked 12 in the polls around this time last year, maybe a little earlier, and wthey ended with 6 losses, losing to NAZ who won the tourney, and they didn't get a bid..  I too hope I'm wrong but hey RIT is not even on the map as far as rankings right now. Fisher has a tough road ahead. I can't see Fisher, RIT or IC not making the E-8, that is a lock..... The 4th spot is a 3 team race, maybe only 2.  Lets say 8-8 makes the 4th spot.  For that to happen (easy I may get something balled up here) NAZ can only lose 3 more games, and they would be @ RIT @ IC and home against Fisher, they must win the rest.  Utica who ahs the best shot can lose to RIT, IC, Fisher, Naz and Stevens.  Stevens can lose to IC, RIT and Fisher.  Therefore big games are obviuosly heads up. If any two of those 3 are tied, Or all 3 the team with the best road record will get the nod, that would be Naz believe it or not, since they have to win on the road late to get to 8-8.....So as with age said, way too early to be predicting anything........ By the way my guys are sleep walking.... Carson has been less than a POY lately... still nice numbers but not Carsonesque..... NAZ actually played alittle D in the 2nd half the other night, hold ALFRED to 30% from the field.    But what do I know  

[FisherDynasty]

Great point With age came.  Its hard not to get really optimistic with the success fisher has had so far but you layed it on the table very well with their upcoming schedule.  They could very easily drop3 maybe 4 games out of their next six.  

However, do to the number of losses the other teams have in the other conferences i think they will still get in with 6 losses this year.  There are no teams in sunyac worthy of an autobid this year same with the uaa east region teams.  That being said, i think the liberty league can squeeze an auto bid in being hamilton or st lawrence depending on who wins the league.  However, they both already have 2 more losses than fisher and might drop a few more games.  Either way there is enough room this year for auto bids from LL and E8.  3 from e8 is pushing it but is not out of the question if hamilton and and lawrence fumbles a few more games and don't win their league.

My predictions over your 6 game stretch for fisher.

Ithaca at Fisher - Fisher
Fisher at Ithaca - Ithaca
RIT at Fisher - Fisher
Fisher at Stevens - Stevens
Fishter at Hartwick - Fisher
Fisher at Naz - Naz

I think they will drop 3 out of the 6 with very possible losses to ithaca twice and maybe RIT again.  We'll see.  I think an important point this year as well is the northeast teams arent all that strong compared to normal either, there are lot more teams in the 5-6 loss range versus the 1-3 loss teams like normal.  

[FROMAFAR]

A little more.... It is possible for Stevens, Utica, and NAZ to all be 8-8 and split with one another, thus the road record becomes an issue.

[FROMAFAR]

Fisher D, don't leave out that Utica game at Fisher late.... Utica could be fighting for their life and they won't go down easy, Although I always feel, Fisher is the toughest place to win..........    Also, your right about other leagues being on the down, so 2 is still possible if IC wins the e-8 tourney, BUT that team they play in the chamionship game better be RIT or Fisher, or all bets are off, but what do I know

[Ethelred the Unready]

I get that this is the E-8 board and therefore, it rightfully slants to the "home" team.  But I think you underestimate the UAA teams in the East region.  NYU has 3 losses, with some more likely.  But they have the same opportunity as any of the E-8 teams to control their destiny - against better competition as a whole.  Same is true of UR.  Four losses to ranked teams, three of them winable, and the opportunity to control their destiny.  Mike C needs to be healthy and the freshmen/sophs need to continue to play at a high level, but I wouldn't count them out.  Issue with both NYU & UR will be UAA travel and how they deal with that.  Just saying...don't go giving away all the east region berths just yet.

[FisherDynasty]

did i leave it out, oops my mistake.  I think fisher will win since they won at utica which is very hard to come out of with a win, but will be a good game im sure.  I dont think it matters if fisher and rit gets to the championship or not, obviously its going to depends on how the rest of the season pans out but if fisher ends the regular season with 4 losses and losses first round of e8 tourny, they are in the tourny no doubt about it.  Same with RIT.

I tihnk UofR OR Nyu will get in the tourny but not both.  I think uofR is better and I think NYU will come out with more losses by season end.  I think NYU and UofR are both good enought to get in with a lower seed however, I think one out of the two will have too many losses.  Losses to good teams or not, the NCAA doesnt favor strength of schedule too much.  Ex. NY with 7 losses wont get in over hamilton with 5.

To be honest we shouldnt be giving away anything with regards to the ncaa tourny yet its wayy to early, but i just brought it up for discussion.  I think fisher will start to faulter on the 2nd half of the season, but they have proven me wroing all season so what do I know.  I just know to this point with only 2 losses and have played a descent schedule ncaa tourny is looking very good.

[sjfcards]

For the Empire 8 to get 2 bids a lot has to go right. But lets say fisher Fisher wins every game from here on, except they split with IC. In that case Fisher would have 3 losses going into the tourny. They lose to RIT in the first round, and RIT then losses to IC in the Championship. That would be 4 losses for Fisher. That would get them in. Again, a lot has to go right, but there is several scenarios that could get two teams in.

NYU and U of R are still very good teams that do control much of their own destiny to get into the tournament. I think it is the tough schedules that they play down the stretch that will eventually keep them out. U of R has 4 losses already, including a loss to Fisher. U of R has a much tougher road the next couple of weeks. Fisher really just has to match them (they still have a loss or two to play with), and the head to head win can/should really help them get in.

[sjfcards]

One more quick thought; I get why it is really tough for the E8 to get 3 or even 2 teams into the tourny. My earlier point about getting two (a long shot for 3) in is based on the head start that the E8 teams have. If the season ended today, I would think that IC and Fisher are in. RIT has a comparable resume to the Liberty League teams. Fisher has some losses to play with before Hamilton and St. Lawrence have a claim to their bid. RIT is about even. Fisher and RIT, because of their good start have a chance to play even with the other conferences best teams the rest of the way, and they should (Fisher) and can (RIT) have a claim to a at large bid over those teams.

I know we talked about this earlier, but I think the E8 is the best conference in the state this year (not including the UAA obviously), so heads up, why wouldn't Fisher or RIT get an at large.
Having said all that, I think the E8 is in line for 2 bids as it stands right now. If Fisher keeps winning games, then I think they should be able to steal a bid. 

[Ethelred the Unready]

One more quick thought; I get why it is really tough for the E8 to get 3 or even 2 teams into the tourny. My earlier point about getting two (a long shot for 3) in is based on the head start that the E8 teams have. If the season ended today, I would think that IC and Fisher are in. RIT has a comparable resume to the Liberty League teams. Fisher has some losses to play with before Hamilton and St. Lawrence have a claim to their bid. RIT is about even. Fisher and RIT, because of their good start have a chance to play even with the other conferences best teams the rest of the way, and they should (Fisher) and can (RIT) have a claim to a at large bid over those teams.

I know we talked about this earlier, but I think the E8 is the best conference in the state this year (not including the UAA obviously), so heads up, why wouldn't Fisher or RIT get an at large.
Having said all that, I think the E8 is in line for 2 bids as it stands right now. If Fisher keeps winning games, then I think they should be able to steal a bid. 

As somebody said somewhere (or maybe it was the voices in my head), conference tournaments will have a big impact in the final dispersal of bids.  I really can't see more than 1 LL team getting a bid.  But if Hamilton wins the regular season and then looses in their tournament, well that messes things up.  Hamilton was smart this year.  They are currently ranked #2 in the east (over on the Pool C page) by virtue of being 9-1 in region.  Getting hammered by the 4 good teams they played doesn't hurt so bad when 3 are out of region. 

[sjfcards]

One more quick thought; I get why it is really tough for the E8 to get 3 or even 2 teams into the tourny. My earlier point about getting two (a long shot for 3) in is based on the head start that the E8 teams have. If the season ended today, I would think that IC and Fisher are in. RIT has a comparable resume to the Liberty League teams. Fisher has some losses to play with before Hamilton and St. Lawrence have a claim to their bid. RIT is about even. Fisher and RIT, because of their good start have a chance to play even with the other conferences best teams the rest of the way, and they should (Fisher) and can (RIT) have a claim to a at large bid over those teams.

I know we talked about this earlier, but I think the E8 is the best conference in the state this year (not including the UAA obviously), so heads up, why wouldn't Fisher or RIT get an at large.
Having said all that, I think the E8 is in line for 2 bids as it stands right now. If Fisher keeps winning games, then I think they should be able to steal a bid. 

As somebody said somewhere (or maybe it was the voices in my head), conference tournaments will have a big impact in the final dispersal of bids.  I really can't see more than 1 LL team getting a bid.  But if Hamilton wins the regular season and then looses in their tournament, well that messes things up.  Hamilton was smart this year.  They are currently ranked #2 in the east (over on the Pool C page) by virtue of being 9-1 in region.  Getting hammered by the 4 good teams they played doesn't hurt so bad when 3 are out of region. 

Fair enough, that is a good point.

[FROMAFAR]

OK, lets have a little fun here, WHAT IF, let's say UTICA is the 4 seed and wins the Tourney, let's say they beat IC in final, does Fisher get the bid if Utica beat them, or does RIT? Or just IC and Utica?  I know it's a long shot, but as someone said just for discussion purposes. I think we are all agreeing unless a total collapse, not likely IC is in. I really believe the only way we get a second team in is if they play in the final, can lose to IC but must have 4 loses or less. 5 Losses doesn't cut it........But what do I know  

[Ethelred the Unready]

OK, lets have a little fun here, WHAT IF, let's say UTICA is the 4 seed and wins the Tourney, let's say they beat IC in final, does Fisher get the bid if Utica beat them, or does RIT? Or just IC and Utica?  I know it's a long shot, but as someone said just for discussion purposes. I think we are all agreeing unless a total collapse, not likely IC is in. I really believe the only way we get a second team in is if they play in the final, can lose to IC but must have 4 loses or less. 5 Losses doesn't cut it........But what do I know  

Does give you something to think about when the CNY weather is crappy.  Which is hardly ever........

[FisherDynasty]

lets continue the discussion in about 2 weeks i have a feeling a lot is going to change by then.