Empire 8

[sjfcards]

Yes, St John Fisher is terrible with video feeds.  It is like they never did videocasting until last night.  I have to listen to WBRS's audio of the game to get the coverage.

C'mon Cardinal guys.  You can do better than that.  Camera not turned on--microphone not turned on-- please. 

Frustrating that I can't watch Brandeis take the lead on you guys.  Jeff Pickette is great on the commentary, though.

Easy brother, Fisher typically does a very good job with the video (including bringing students workers to visitors gyms to make sure their is a video feed). They are having trouble this weekend, but lets settle down a little.

[Go Naz]

Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??

[buck1053]

Gonna be an E8-SUNYAC championship tilt in the ECAC Upstate Men's Basketball Championship this afternoon as both LL teams that threw their hats into the ring fell on Saturday, both getting drilled.

No. 2 SUNY Brockport throttled No. 3 Hobart, 86-59; while No. 1 Ithaca drubbed No. 4 RPI, 88-67, to advance.

The championship game will be played at 2 p.m. this afternoon at SUNY Brockport.

I'm a little behind here, so please excuse that, but why are the games being played at Brockport if Ithaca is the top seed?

And, yeah, it is the "Not Invited Tournament" for D-III, but interesting that Ithaca is the last E-8 team left playing.

[deiscanton]

Ithaca chose not to host ECAC tournament action this weekend, most likely due to the fact that Ithaca was already hosting the NCAA DIII Women's Basketball Tournament first and second round games this weekend-- Because of NCAA security arrangements, Ithaca could not host both ECAC semifinals and the NCAA second round game on the same day.

Ithaca indicated that they were only willing to host an ECAC quarterfinal game this week when they filed their declaration papers expressing interest in competing for the ECAC Upstate Championship.

The info can be found at:

http://www.ecac.org/championships/team/mbkb/2009-10/2009-10_DIII_Men-s_Basketball_Declared_Teams.pdf

Gonna be an E8-SUNYAC championship tilt in the ECAC Upstate Men's Basketball Championship this afternoon as both LL teams that threw their hats into the ring fell on Saturday, both getting drilled.

No. 2 SUNY Brockport throttled No. 3 Hobart, 86-59; while No. 1 Ithaca drubbed No. 4 RPI, 88-67, to advance.

The championship game will be played at 2 p.m. this afternoon at SUNY Brockport.

I'm a little behind here, so please excuse that, but why are the games being played at Brockport if Ithaca is the top seed?

And, yeah, it is the "Not Invited Tournament" for D-III, but interesting that Ithaca is the last E-8 team left playing.

[magicman]

I posted this on the SUNYAC board and here just in case anyone was interested. If you're not don't read it.   Was a fun game to watch though.

Very entertaining game Saturday night between SUNYIT and Medaille at Memorial Hall in Plattsbugh. SUNYIT won it 64-63 but just like Friday night's win over Nazareth, Medaille had a chance to hit  the last shot and walk off the court with a win.
The Wildcats from Utica came flying out of the gate with a 5-0 lead that was stretched to double digits 6 and a half minutes into the game. Diloo Brown opened the scoring with 5 straight points, followed by 5 points from Fitzpatrick Thorne. After a Dave Golembiowski jumper it was Aaron Swancott's turn to score 5 points and just like that it was 17-7. The Wildcats would increase their lead to 13 at 21-8 with 9 minutes gone by when Medaille decided it was time to regroup. Or rather Mike Bekun of the Mavericks decided it was time to act. Berkun hit a jumper, then a triple, followed by a jumper by Ricky Reed. The Wildcat's Thorne brought the lead back to 8 with a monster dunk off a nice Diloo Brown feed, and then Berkun went back to work hitting 2 straight trifectas to give Medaille their 1st lead of the game at 24-23 with 6:10 to play in the period. Back came the Wildcats with an 11-0 run of their own capped by another Diloo Brown 3 pointer to restore a double digit lead at 34-24 with 2:10 remaining in the half. A 3 pointer by Keith Hack as the period ended, found Medaille down 35-29 at the break and the Maverick fans were happy that the margin wasn't larger.
Hoping to cut into the Wildcat's lead to start the 2nd and puzzled why SUNYIT's big man, Golembiowski stayed out beyond the arc attempting 3 pointers, the Medaille contingent soon had their answer. After going 0-3 from long range in the 1st half and missing another 3 point attempt early in the 2nd, Golembiowski poured in 13 of the next 15 Wildcat points. He started with 3 inside baskets completing a 3 point play on one and finished with back to back triples to stretch the Wildcat lead to as much as 18. His 1st 3 pointer made the score 47-29, completing a 12-0 run to open the half and after 4 Maverick points he hit a second 3 pointer to make it 50- 33 with only 4:28 gone by in the half. But the Mavericks refused to pack it in and still down 15 at 60-45 with 8:51 left to play they slowly chipped away and cut the lead to 9 at 60-51. SUNYIT's Thorne gets fouled on a made jumper and completes the 3 point play to again stretch the lead to 13, 64-51 with 6:13 to go. The Wildcats would not score another point. Trying to eat time off the clock the Wildcats deliberate half court offense backfired as they either missed their shot (0-7) or turned the ball over (4 TO's) on their final 11 possessions. Meanwhile a jumper by Keith Hack, a 3 pointer by Chris Moscato, a short jumper by Ron Malicki, and a jumper by Ricky Reed made it 64-60 with 3:06 to play. Medaille loses an opportunity when Reed misses 2 foul shots with 2:21 left and after another Wildcat turnover, Keith Hack's layup attempt at the 1:48 mark hits the front of the rim and tries to roll in but it appears basket interference occurs while the ball is on the rim. The refs don't make the call as the bench goes wild and Coach MacDonald has to be restrained by his assistants to prevent a technical. The Wildcats come down, miss a 3 point attempt, get the rebound and Adam Swancott is fouled. He misses the front end of a 1&1, the Mavericks' Malicki grabs the rebound, drives to the hoop, makes the basket and is fouled. He hits the free throw to cut it to 64-63 with 49 seconds left. SUNYIT comes down and misses a 3 by Golembiowski with 17 seconds left. Medaille rebounds the ball and brings it down for the final shot but Reed loses the handle, gets tied up with the possession arrow going to SUNYIT and 7 seconds left in the game. Taking the ball out of bounds on the sideline at Medaille's end the SUNYIT fans witnessed the shortest 5 seconds in recorded history as the ref makes a 5 second call on the inbounds pass to give the Mavericks one final opportunity. The Medaille fans I were sitting with were stunned at the turn of events ( but extremely happy) and were pretty sure it was a makeup call for the missed basket interference. (No doubt about it) It was all for naught though, as the Medaille player (he shall remain nameless by me) loses the ball as he makes his move to the basket. SUNYIT's Diloo Brown comes up with the ball and throws it the length of the court as time expires.

The Wildcats Were led by Golembiowski with 22 points and 15 rebounds. Brown and Thorne both had 14 pts while Swancott added 12.

Ron Malicki led Medaille with 15 pts followed by Mike Berkun with 14 and Chris Moscato with 12. Keith Hack had 8 pts and was the Mavericks leading rebounder with 9.
Medaille ends their most successful season in school history at 24-5 and won an NCAA tournament game for the 1st time ever.

SUNYIT advances to the Sweet 16 for the first time in their history moving a step further than last year when they lost to St. Lawrence in a 2nd round game.
Williams the #2 ranked team in the country is their next opponent in the sectional on March 12th-13th, which will most likely be held in Williamstown Mass. That sectional will also have Brandeis, who beat #25 St John Fisher, and Rhode Island College who upset #9 Middlebury.

           
     

[sjfcards]

Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??

That is a great topic for conversation. I think I would be satisfied with any of the three, but if I had to choose one, I think I would pick O'Brien. Obviously I am way biased, and I saw him play more than the other two, but I am basing the decision on the fact that he did a lot more winning in his career than the other two. He is also probably the best free throw shooter of the three as well. O'Brien is not as good of a pure shooter than the others but he could get into the lane, and he could always find the open player for an easy two.

Of course the Naz guy chose Mcadam, and the Fisher guy chose O'Brien. Again, you can make a strong argument for any one of these guys.

[with age came?]

Tremendous question regarding the 3 players.  Saw a lot of O'Brien in HS and College.  Saw some of Burton in college and never saw McAdam (I am sorry to say).  Totally neutral as a fan but I can say that O'Brien & Burton had alot more talent around them than McAdam.  So I would have to go with Josten finalist McAdam if he had the same talent around him I believe he would have won more. Very unqualified opinion (not having seen McAdam play).

[bomber3]

Bombers win the ECAC tournament with a win over Brockport on their home floor 78-71.  D3hoops and the live stats has the scores reversed and is incorrect -- Ithaca won. Congrats to the Bombers as well as to Tom Brown and Will Gaskins -- who have the most wins by any player in Bomber history (75 wins over 4 seasons).  

[magicman]

Brockport St. falls to Ithaca 78-71 in the final of the Upstate ECAC tournament.

Ithaca led at the half 36-32 but Brockport caught the Bombers at 42 all with 3:12 gone in the 2nd and opened up a 5 pt lead, their largest of the game, with 15:43 to play. The teams would exchange leads 7 more times with 3 ties before Ithaca's Andrei Oztemel hit a 3 pointer with 1:51 remaining to give the Bombers a 71-69 advantage. Ithaca extended their lead to 5 at 74-69, and Brockport closed to within 3 but Ithaca hit 4 foul shots down the stretch to pull away.

Oztemel was named Most Outstanding player and finished with 14 pts and 8 rebounds. Phil Barera was the game's leading scorer with 23 points and 11 rebounds. Jordan Marcus, Sean Rossi, and Chris Cruz-Rivas all added 11 points each.

For Brockport, Anthony Hall led the way with 15 pts followed by Jermaine Johnson, Gerald Williams, and Brandon Williams with 11 points each. Andy Marchand chipped in with 10 points.

[Bombers798891]

Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??

Well, if you use the qualifier of just "running the show" I don't think McAdam is that much better than Burton.

McAdam17.2 PPG, 5.7 APG, 3.8 turnovers per game (1.5 A/T ratio)
Burton 17.0 PPG, 5.4 APG, 3.3 turnovers per game (1.6 A/T ratio)

Pretty much dead even. McAdam scored slightly more, and had more assists, but also turned it over more. Really a draw.

As for their shooting:

McAdam: 50.9% from two, 32.6% from three, 78.5% from line
Burton: 49.0% from two, 37.2% from three, 90% from the line

McAdam's got the edge from two, but Burton was better from three and significantly better at the line. Overall, Burton was probably the better shooter. They were two different players as far as shooting goes, but personally I'll take the guy who can stretch a defense.

Now, when you factor in rebounding/defense, McAdam clearly has the edge, which is why he was a more complete player than Burton, and better overall. But I'm not sure rebounds are really part of "running the show." It may depend on how heavily you value shooting the three.

O'Brien didn't have the scoring touch either Burton or McAdam had, so I'd probably put him third

I guess if forced I'd take Burton. I think the ability to hit three-pointers would come in handy and he'd be better to close out a game from the line. For what it's worth, IC won five of the seven times those two played.

What is the Empire 8 record for assists? Is it McAdam's 792? I wonder if Sean Rossi can top it?

[FROMAFAR]

I am totally unbiased and looking at how close Mc Adam and Burton are I would have to look at 2 E8 Championships and supporting cast being less, so I will go with McAdam... But in fairness,   all 3 were very good, and I really think we may be forgetting someone else as well.... I don't have anyone in mind, but there must be someone else out there..........

I am all hooped out.......... may take a rest until October..........It's been fun  

[bomber3]

In the Burton/McAdam debate its not even close who was a better shooter.  Burton shot 37% while getting double teamed near the three point line.  McAdam takes wide open threes because teams go under his screens because his outside shot is his offensive weakness (although he shot a respectable 32%). McAdam's threes would be stand-still setshots that he only took to keep defenses honest. That being said he was alot better at getting to the rim and getting to the line.  Mcadam was a better passer in my opinion too.

Another factor not being mentioned is Mcadam was a gambler on defense.  He had lots of steals but often was out of position and somewhat lost on defense.  If I recall correctly, he would guard the worst offensive player a majority of the time and hid on defense. I would almost say he was a liability -- but correct me if I'm wrong. Burton often guarded the teams quickest guard and was a solid defender overall  -- he wasn't lockdown but was definitely not a liability.  Although Mcadam got more steals (and he got a TON), I think Burton was a better defender overall.

Also here are the overall career records:

Mcadam: 61-46 (57%)  2 Empire 8 Tournament Championships, 0-2 in NCAAs
Burton: 72-38 (65%)  2 Empire 8 Regular Season Championships, 1 ECAC championship, Second round loss in NCAAs (0-1)  

Go Naz -- you're biased and took Mcadam. I'm biased and will take Burton

[bomber3]

Ok...its 3am and I'm still wide awake so I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot a little bit.  You have one game to win....Corey Mcadam....Sean Burton or Sean O'Brien....who do you want to run the show for your team?  Obviously I am biased but I take Mcadam... I believe that he is arguably the best player in Empire 8history and I take him over the other two in any situation....thoughts??

What is the Empire 8 record for assists? Is it McAdam's 792? I wonder if Sean Rossi can top it?

He has 221 at the end of his freshman season (Mcadam had 186 after his freshman year).  Which puts Rossi on pace for ~1000 for his career

If they keep the uptempo style and he avoids injury he has a shot at the all-time record of 917....but thats a LONG ways away.

[FisherDynasty]

I would take o'brien. Especially if it comes down late in the game.  Throw stats out the door, you can't compare stats when comparing a fisher player as the stats are spreadout as all 5 players are typically very good and they play well as a team.  I think burton is the most polished skills wise, McAdam is great for the stats but Ive never caught him play that great even when he put up good stats I woudl always say i didnt even notice him doing well how did he get all of those stats.  O'brien is the best to get in the lane and create, he is also probably the best defender out of the 3.  Burton is very good but is hard to compare is he much different.

O'brien strentghs:
Stongest
Best defender
Winner

Burton
Best Shooter
most fluid

McAdam
best stats
Best rebounder

[bomber3]

I can't compare O'Brien because I've never seen him play so I will stick to McAdam vs Burton.  Couple other stats I thought of:

Head to Head:
Ithaca won 5 of 7 in the 3 years they both played but McAdam won the lone game in the E8 tourney.

And someone said Burton played with better players.  If that was the case then it would be more difficult for Burton to accumulate stats with better players around him taking shots away.  For a few years McAdam didn't have much help (went 11-15 or something) so he should have put up huge numbers with those players around him.