Empire 8

[buck1053]

I will say, I was disappointed by Alfred. There was simply no effort given tonight. Bombers scored the first nine points and had a 22-1 run later in the first half.They closed the game on an 18-0 run and held Alfred scoreless for the last 8:42. Even though the Bombers can score in bunches, that's really a letdown.

Well, given the leadership, it's not all that surprising. Murphy was bad yet they kept him for many years, and even then they didn't get rid of him, just moved him to the women's team. Then they didn't make a great choice to succeed him, they just looked at the fact he had been at Williams and their eyes lit up. Never mind the fact that the coach who'd been at Williams, Paulsen, had just left for the Bucknell job and wasn't taking Wellman with him -- not even to be a video assistant or basketball operations. If he hadn't gotten the Alfred job, he was going to be out of coaching. Not exactly a choice that inspires a lot of confidence.

I'm sure Pep will have a different take because I know he likes the guy. And he might be a great guy, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a great coach. Obviously the team has regressed, even though they currently stand at 5-5 on the season. 0-2 in the league, 0-3 on the road and the teams they have beaten aren't exactly world beaters.

I think they will compete with Elmira, as always, for the bottom of the league.

[TheNextLevel]

Hartwick continues to improve...beat Naz on the road last night.   Blazak is back from his hamstring injury (missed the whole 1st semester) and freshman Jared Sudderly is a legit player.  I think they will make the E-8 Playoffs this year.

[sjfcards]

IC can really shoot. They are up 7 at the half against Fisher. The cards are trying to keep in it but IC just makes big shot after big shot all half. Tough to defend, and the pace of the game is definitely the type that IC wants to play.

Funny side note. At one point Rossi threw a pass to the corner, and the guy in the corner threw a pass inside for a layup, and the announcer said whoever from Rossi. I am sure it was an honest mistake, but if he is getting double assists like in hockey, it is time someone stop this.    just kidding. He has been great so far.

[Bombers798891]

Bombers take it, 101-95.

Unreal. This offense is obscene right now.

Barera with 18 and 20. Rossi with 17 and 11. Oztemel with 21 and Marcus with 24.

Gettings with 36 and 8 for Fisher.

Ithaca is just not going down right now. Broke 100 points the third straight game, and over 90 for the seventh straight. Bombers are the team to beat right now, 11-2 and 4-0 in conference

[AUSaxons33344]

I will say, I was disappointed by Alfred. There was simply no effort given tonight. Bombers scored the first nine points and had a 22-1 run later in the first half.They closed the game on an 18-0 run and held Alfred scoreless for the last 8:42. Even though the Bombers can score in bunches, that's really a letdown.

Well, given the leadership, it's not all that surprising. Murphy was bad yet they kept him for many years, and even then they didn't get rid of him, just moved him to the women's team. Then they didn't make a great choice to succeed him, they just looked at the fact he had been at Williams and their eyes lit up. Never mind the fact that the coach who'd been at Williams, Paulsen, had just left for the Bucknell job and wasn't taking Wellman with him -- not even to be a video assistant or basketball operations. If he hadn't gotten the Alfred job, he was going to be out of coaching. Not exactly a choice that inspires a lot of confidence.

I'm sure Pep will have a different take because I know he likes the guy. And he might be a great guy, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a great coach. Obviously the team has regressed, even though they currently stand at 5-5 on the season. 0-2 in the league, 0-3 on the road and the teams they have beaten aren't exactly world beaters.

I think they will compete with Elmira, as always, for the bottom of the league.

I don't agree with your last line.  The program is turning around.  They've progressed the past 3 years --- everyone has off nights (like last night). 

A couple years ago I remember the Saxons lost by 30 or so to Fisher at home then went in to Fisher's gym and won by 10.  The team only has 2 Seniors and is very young.  They came back from their terrible loss yesterday to beat Utica by 5 today and in their other game v Fisher a few weeks ago , they lost by 6.  I don't think they'll be a bottom feeder of the league this year and could surprise some teams at the top. 

[buck1053]

I don't agree with your last line.  The program is turning around.  They've progressed the past 3 years --- everyone has off nights (like last night). 

A couple years ago I remember the Saxons lost by 30 or so to Fisher at home then went in to Fisher's gym and won by 10.  The team only has 2 Seniors and is very young.  They came back from their terrible loss yesterday to beat Utica by 5 today and in their other game v Fisher a few weeks ago , they lost by 6.  I don't think they'll be a bottom feeder of the league this year and could surprise some teams at the top. 

While Alfred has progressed from 1-15 (2-23 overall) in the E8 (9th of 9 teams) in 2007-08, to 3-13 (8-17 overall) in the E8 (8th of 9 teams) in 2008-09 to 4-12 (11-14 overall) in the E8 (7th of 9 teams), I would expect them to be 8th (ahead of Elmira) again this season, certainly no higher than 7th (if Utica is able to be as bad as they were last year and with Connolly at the helm that's certainly a posibility. Naz is winless in the league, but just about all of their losses have been close, including a 10-point loss to the Bombers.

Alfred is now 1-2 in the league and 6-5 overall. I think more than 5 wins in the league would be a miracle. Elmira twice, maybe Utica again, and then maybe a surprise. I guess, though, technically 5 wins would be an improvement.

Let's look at who they've beaten this season: New Jersey City (5-6) by 4, Hilbert (4-8) by 2, SUNY Canton (1-6) by 24, Cazenovia (1-9) by 34, Paul Smith's (4-9) by 45 and Utica (6-5) by 5 today.
So they blew out two teams with a combined record of 2-15 as well as a non-NCAA team in Paul Smith's, and had close victories over teams within spitting distance of .500, including the only team they've beaten with a winning record -- 6-5 Utica.

Now their losses: Penn State Dubois (5-7) by 18, Eastern (8-3) by 8, Penn College (4-6) by 2, St. John Fisher (7-6) by 6, and Ithaca College (11-2) by 53. Ithaca is legit and that showed, Eastern has a nice record, and Fisher is typically tough. Penn State Dubois and Penn College (which got its first win of the season against Alfred) are not high quality teams.

By the way, the most recent Massey ratings have Elmira last in the E8 (ranked 1713), and Alfred next to last (ranked 1647). Hartwick is third to last with a ranking of 1471. Those ratings aren't quite accurate though, as they did not include AU's split this weekend.

I'm sorry but those details just do not add up to a program that is turning around. Going from hitting a plateau of 4-5 league wins is not a program in turnaround.

[AUSaxons33344]

I don't agree with your last line.  The program is turning around.  They've progressed the past 3 years --- everyone has off nights (like last night). 

A couple years ago I remember the Saxons lost by 30 or so to Fisher at home then went in to Fisher's gym and won by 10.  The team only has 2 Seniors and is very young.  They came back from their terrible loss yesterday to beat Utica by 5 today and in their other game v Fisher a few weeks ago , they lost by 6.  I don't think they'll be a bottom feeder of the league this year and could surprise some teams at the top. 

While Alfred has progressed from 1-15 (2-23 overall) in the E8 (9th of 9 teams) in 2007-08, to 3-13 (8-17 overall) in the E8 (8th of 9 teams) in 2008-09 to 4-12 (11-14 overall) in the E8 (7th of 9 teams), I would expect them to be 8th (ahead of Elmira) again this season, certainly no higher than 7th (if Utica is able to be as bad as they were last year and with Connolly at the helm that's certainly a posibility. Naz is winless in the league, but just about all of their losses have been close, including a 10-point loss to the Bombers.

Alfred is now 1-2 in the league and 6-5 overall. I think more than 5 wins in the league would be a miracle. Elmira twice, maybe Utica again, and then maybe a surprise. I guess, though, technically 5 wins would be an improvement.

Let's look at who they've beaten this season: New Jersey City (5-6) by 4, Hilbert (4-8) by 2, SUNY Canton (1-6) by 24, Cazenovia (1-9) by 34, Paul Smith's (4-9) by 45 and Utica (6-5) by 5 today.
So they blew out two teams with a combined record of 2-15 as well as a non-NCAA team in Paul Smith's, and had close victories over teams within spitting distance of .500, including the only team they've beaten with a winning record -- 6-5 Utica.

Now their losses: Penn State Dubois (5-7) by 18, Eastern (8-3) by 8, Penn College (4-6) by 2, St. John Fisher (7-6) by 6, and Ithaca College (11-2) by 53. Ithaca is legit and that showed, Eastern has a nice record, and Fisher is typically tough. Penn State Dubois and Penn College (which got its first win of the season against Alfred) are not high quality teams.

By the way, the most recent Massey ratings have Elmira last in the E8 (ranked 1713), and Alfred next to last (ranked 1647). Hartwick is third to last with a ranking of 1471. Those ratings aren't quite accurate though, as they did not include AU's split this weekend.

I'm sorry but those details just do not add up to a program that is turning around. Going from hitting a plateau of 4-5 league wins is not a program in turnaround.

Impressive research.  What is a Massey Rating?

[Ethelred the Unready]

I don't agree with your last line.  The program is turning around.  They've progressed the past 3 years --- everyone has off nights (like last night). 

A couple years ago I remember the Saxons lost by 30 or so to Fisher at home then went in to Fisher's gym and won by 10.  The team only has 2 Seniors and is very young.  They came back from their terrible loss yesterday to beat Utica by 5 today and in their other game v Fisher a few weeks ago , they lost by 6.  I don't think they'll be a bottom feeder of the league this year and could surprise some teams at the top. 

While Alfred has progressed from 1-15 (2-23 overall) in the E8 (9th of 9 teams) in 2007-08, to 3-13 (8-17 overall) in the E8 (8th of 9 teams) in 2008-09 to 4-12 (11-14 overall) in the E8 (7th of 9 teams), I would expect them to be 8th (ahead of Elmira) again this season, certainly no higher than 7th (if Utica is able to be as bad as they were last year and with Connolly at the helm that's certainly a posibility. Naz is winless in the league, but just about all of their losses have been close, including a 10-point loss to the Bombers.

Alfred is now 1-2 in the league and 6-5 overall. I think more than 5 wins in the league would be a miracle. Elmira twice, maybe Utica again, and then maybe a surprise. I guess, though, technically 5 wins would be an improvement.

Let's look at who they've beaten this season: New Jersey City (5-6) by 4, Hilbert (4-8) by 2, SUNY Canton (1-6) by 24, Cazenovia (1-9) by 34, Paul Smith's (4-9) by 45 and Utica (6-5) by 5 today.
So they blew out two teams with a combined record of 2-15 as well as a non-NCAA team in Paul Smith's, and had close victories over teams within spitting distance of .500, including the only team they've beaten with a winning record -- 6-5 Utica.

Now their losses: Penn State Dubois (5-7) by 18, Eastern (8-3) by 8, Penn College (4-6) by 2, St. John Fisher (7-6) by 6, and Ithaca College (11-2) by 53. Ithaca is legit and that showed, Eastern has a nice record, and Fisher is typically tough. Penn State Dubois and Penn College (which got its first win of the season against Alfred) are not high quality teams.

By the way, the most recent Massey ratings have Elmira last in the E8 (ranked 1713), and Alfred next to last (ranked 1647). Hartwick is third to last with a ranking of 1471. Those ratings aren't quite accurate though, as they did not include AU's split this weekend.

I'm sorry but those details just do not add up to a program that is turning around. Going from hitting a plateau of 4-5 league wins is not a program in turnaround.

Impressive research.  What is a Massey Rating?

If you have a couple of hours to kill......


http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2011&sub=NCAA%20III&mid=1

[FROMAFAR]

OK, so the Tigers are 3-0. I don't know how? I was at the two games this weekend.  RIT stopped playing afetr 37 minutes and it almost cost them. To the Ducks credit they never stopped playing and almost broke my heart. This was an enormous game for both teams as it may play into making the E-8 Tourney. I believe IC and Fischer will definitley be in... IC because they are good, Fisher because they play half there games at home, where th homecourt advantage probably got it's name.  The other two spots are wide open, between Hartwick, Steven, RIT AND MAYBE NAZ... but they look weak right now.   Tigers were lucky to win either game this weekend, BUT to their credit they did. Hartwick impressed me, but was very streaky... like Tigers they don't seem to have a flow to their rotation..........Stevens has a definite flow.... a guy Like Smith, who I believe is a monster down low.....24 and 16 against us, and 16 and 14 against NAZ..... THAT BEING SAID.... those home wins become a must.  Tigers have a bit of an advantage right now as we have held court against two teams I think we will dualing with...

By the way SJFCARDS.... that PA Announcer at IC became the PC announcer by being promoted from stat man.    He was just reverting back to his old job when he gave Rossi the assist two passes later...
JUST KIDDING BOMBERS 798............. don't get excited again.


I also think Alfred will make a little noise before this is all over................could cost someone a Tourney spot. But 
   

[Bombers798891]

OK, so the Tigers are 3-0. I don't know how? I was at the two games this weekend.  RIT stopped playing afetr 37 minutes and it almost cost them. To the Ducks credit they never stopped playing and almost broke my heart. This was an enormous game for both teams as it may play into making the E-8 Tourney. I believe IC and Fischer will definitley be in... IC because they are good, Fisher because they play half there games at home, where th homecourt advantage probably got it's name.  The other two spots are wide open, between Hartwick, Steven, RIT AND MAYBE NAZ... but they look weak right now.   Tigers were lucky to win either game this weekend, BUT to their credit they did. Hartwick impressed me, but was very streaky... like Tigers they don't seem to have a flow to their rotation..........Stevens has a definite flow.... a guy Like Smith, who I believe is a monster down low.....24 and 16 against us, and 16 and 14 against NAZ..... THAT BEING SAID.... those home wins become a must.  Tigers have a bit of an advantage right now as we have held court against two teams I think we will dualing with...

By the way SJFCARDS.... that PA Announcer at IC became the PC announcer by being promoted from stat man.    He was just reverting back to his old job when he gave Rossi the assist two passes later...
JUST KIDDING BOMBERS 798............. don't get excited again.


I also think Alfred will make a little noise before this is all over................could cost someone a Tourney spot. But 
   

Eh, no worries...he'll just keep putting up the numbers, and people can doubt him and the worthiness of the stats all they want. Ithaca's just going to keep lighting up the scoreboard regardless of who gets the assists.

Bombers and Fisher seem to be the obvious two at this point.

[sjfcards]

OK, so the Tigers are 3-0. I don't know how? I was at the two games this weekend.  RIT stopped playing afetr 37 minutes and it almost cost them. To the Ducks credit they never stopped playing and almost broke my heart. This was an enormous game for both teams as it may play into making the E-8 Tourney. I believe IC and Fischer will definitley be in... IC because they are good, Fisher because they play half there games at home, where th homecourt advantage probably got it's name.  The other two spots are wide open, between Hartwick, Steven, RIT AND MAYBE NAZ... but they look weak right now.   Tigers were lucky to win either game this weekend, BUT to their credit they did. Hartwick impressed me, but was very streaky... like Tigers they don't seem to have a flow to their rotation..........Stevens has a definite flow.... a guy Like Smith, who I believe is a monster down low.....24 and 16 against us, and 16 and 14 against NAZ..... THAT BEING SAID.... those home wins become a must.  Tigers have a bit of an advantage right now as we have held court against two teams I think we will dualing with...

By the way SJFCARDS.... that PA Announcer at IC became the PC announcer by being promoted from stat man.    He was just reverting back to his old job when he gave Rossi the assist two passes later...
JUST KIDDING BOMBERS 798............. don't get excited again.


I also think Alfred will make a little noise before this is all over................could cost someone a Tourney spot. But  
 

Eh, no worries...he'll just keep putting up the numbers, and people can doubt him and the worthiness of the stats all they want. Ithaca's just going to keep lighting up the scoreboard regardless of who gets the assists.

Bombers and Fisher seem to be the obvious two at this point.

Well if it is down to Fisher and IC I think we can put IC into the NCAA's. I was impressed with them last night, and there was no question who the better team on the court was. Rossi was trouble for Fisher all night, and I don't think Fisher adjusted very well to what IC was doing. IC's offense was basically; Have Rossi drive and kick to someone for a 3 (IC does not miss many) or, Rossi drive and go for a layup. Fisher would basically give Rossi the lane to hold IC to two points on the trip. It was an effective strategy for IC. They are just really tough to defend, and Fisher did not have the shooters to keep up.

On the Rossi issue he looked like the point guard we have heard he is. He does get a lot of assists just from playing in that system (A lot of hand offs and passes where someone chucks up a three and cashes it, but he is great at running that offense, and he gave Fisher real headaches all night.

Fisher did look like a much improved team last night, and I think they will be in the E8 tourny (my guess is as a two seed). IC will lose some games in the league simply because they will have an off night shooting and teams can score on them. But over the course of a full conference season, they are the best team right now.

I was at the game yesterday and I kept thinking that Fisher could really use Conner Henderson from last years team. Not sure if he quit to play lacrosse full time or what, but his outside shooting ability could really balance the offense and give Fisher a much tougher look.

[Bombers798891]

I'm sure I'll sound like a broken record at this point, but I feel, as we're into Season 4 of the Bombers running this high octane offense, that, as much as I enjoy these 90+ point games in January, I'm just going to hold off getting too excited until it happens in March. Lighting up teams in the regular season is awesome, but until Ithaca can put it together in the conference tournament/NCAA's, I'm going to remain wary.

[sjfcards]

I'm sure I'll sound like a broken record at this point, but I feel, as we're into Season 4 of the Bombers running this high octane offense, that, as much as I enjoy these 90+ point games in January, I'm just going to hold off getting too excited until it happens in March. Lighting up teams in the regular season is awesome, but until Ithaca can put it together in the conference tournament/NCAA's, I'm going to remain wary.

I agree bombers. I think the problem with running ICs offense is that as tough as it is to defend other teams can and will score on you. If you have an off shooting night or if you play a team that can match your output it is really tough to beat them. As teams see it more and gameplan for it (the Me tourney) and when you play teams with better athletes (NCAA) it is tough to win running that offense.

[FROMAFAR]

IC reminds me of the San Diego Chargers under Don Coryell... The team was called "Air Coryell".... Becuse they passed almost every down and did not take much time going down the field...and throwing for the TD..... when they were on Defense it was like they almost wanted the other team to score quickly so their offense could get the ball back...........OF course that's not true but I have to explain that or I will be taken seriously..............Correct me however if I am wrong, don't they waste little time shooting hence more possessions, more possessions more points...... BUT I used to think if they were cold, you know, live by the 3 die by the 3. They have so many options of taking the 3, somone or two will have the stroke......  So IC should definitely get to the NCAA's, because I don't see anyone in E-8 beating them.... UGH    But I do agree some better teams outside the conference that can stiffle them. But hey this team is deep this may be a sweet 16 team........... BUT WHAT DO I KNOW

[Bombers798891]

IC reminds me of the San Diego Chargers under Don Coryell... The team was called "Air Coryell".... Becuse they passed almost every down and did not take much time going down the field...and throwing for the TD..... when they were on Defense it was like they almost wanted the other team to score quickly so their offense could get the ball back...........OF course that's not true but I have to explain that or I will be taken seriously..............Correct me however if I am wrong, don't they waste little time shooting hence more possessions, more possessions more points...... BUT I used to think if they were cold, you know, live by the 3 die by the 3. They have so many options of taking the 3, somone or two will have the stroke......  So IC should definitely get to the NCAA's, because I don't see anyone in E-8 beating them.... UGH    But I do agree some better teams outside the conference that can stiffle them. But hey this team is deep this may be a sweet 16 team........... BUT WHAT DO I KNOW

I think you're right, but there are a couple of things that make this Bomber team different offensively. I think there's more of an inside threat. Not so much in the sense that they do go inside more, but they more players who can score inside

Barera is obviously a major threat inside, but he's much better than Bostic at scoring inside (68% vs. 57%). Then you have Miles Grier, who is athletic enough to get to the hole on anyone, and is also shooting over 50%. If Rossi were so inclined, he could get inside and score.

The Bombers are still going to rely heavily on the outside, but they can adapt. Against Oneonta. for example, Ithaca only took three threes in the second half. Against Franklin and Marshall and Nazareth, they only took 8 in the second half after 16 in the first. Sure, guys like Oztemel are strictly outside gunners, but I think this is a team that can go inside if they want to, whereas, I think the 2009 team was really limited in that sense.

But there's no doubt guys have improved at their outside shooting. Rivas is at 43% this season, and his previous best was 36%. Marcus is at 48% (previous high: 38%) and Oztemel is at 45% (last season: 41%). I'm not 100% sure that's sustainable but there it is

I wonder if having a pass-first point guard helps. Sometimes, Burton seemed like he wanted to take over games, and I wonder if it got people out of rythym. Burton took 16 FGA and 5 FTA's per game (yes, some of those were probably "icing" FT's. Rossi takes 8 and 3. Something interesting.