Empire 8

[bomber3]

In regard to the Bombers loss to Utica and the "incredibly frustrating" feelings of following the Bombers.  I've said this quote before and I've said it again - each team plays 5 good games, 5 bad games, and 15 average ones.  The F&M win was one of the 5 good ones and the Utica loss was one of the bad ones.  This is basketball, not football with 10 games.  99.9% of teams in the country have some type of bad loss every year, its inevitable and part of the game. The length of the season and number of games dictates this. I wouldn't even classify this as a horrible loss as UC is above .500 and the game was at their place.  I'd like you to name another program that hasn't had some type of bad loss.  Bottom line is they are still a top 3 team in the east and the class of the E8.  This loss doesn't change that.  Wanna trade your Bomber support for Fisher's season right now? Didn't think so, your expectations just need to be adjusted for reality.

[FROMAFAR]

IC is still the class of the league, and I have heard your 5-15-5 theory..... This would mean IC could play a poor game and still win and in one of there 5 good games they could still lose, depending on the caliber of the opponent  IE: hypothetically let's say they were playing Williams, and they played a very good game, they could still lose because Williams may be playing one of their 5 good games and is better than IC...and if Williams played poorly and still won then that would mean Williams is a lot better than IC. This could play throughout  each scenario in the 5-15-5 theory. Which I get and basically agree with...remembering playing good bad or mediocre it all depends on the opponent and how they play.   An ex. Emira's good may not be as good as IC's bad.    Thus a good game for Elmira is still a loss against a bad IC game.  Therefore it appears UC may not be that bad since there good game beat IC's bad game. So they can actually do well in the league if they continue to play well.  NOW I am not trying to be funny, but let's say UC continues to play the good game... then the bar gets raised and these games move into the 15 set of their season......Engineers love this kind of stuff.  Everything black and white.....  Bomber 3's point is well taken and I agree with him...  I hope your right because RIT certainly got rid of there 5 bad games, unless those games are now consdered part of the 15 ledger. BUT  ;)h     

[sjfcards]

I have always liked the 5 15 5 theory, but I would change it slightly to very team plays 5 good games, 5 bad games and what teams do with the other 15 makes good teams good and bad teams bad. The teams that can play at a high level for those middle 15 games are the teams that are there at the end of the year.

[Bombers798891]

your expectations just need to be adjusted for reality.

But here's my question: What was the reality heading into the IC-UC game?

Utica had lost four in a row, the Bombers had won nine in a row. The Pioneers were 6-5, Ithaca was 11-2. The Bombers were ranked, Utica not so much.

If I'm an Ithaca fan, and I know all that and just saw the Bombers walk all over Alfred, and then saw Alfred beat Utica the next night, why wouldn't my expectations be that the Bombers should win? And therefore, why wouldn't it be a disappointing loss?

Because apparently, these things happen? Look, I understand the argument. I just think it's intellectually lazy. It basically absolves the team of criticism. It's also funny how it's almost always applied after losses. Fans always want credit for the wins because it shows the "true" talent of the team. But bad losses are often get excused as things that "just happen"

And frankly, we're not talking about a 162-game schedule-- Yeah 25 games is a decent number, but not so many that you can't go through a regular season without losing to a middling team

My expectations had been adjusted for reality. The reality is that the basketball team at Ithaca College is significantly better than the one at Utica College. Amazingly enough, that's a compliment. You think I'm frustrated because I don't think the Bombers are good. On the contrary, I'm frustrated because I know they are good. Very good. They proved it in beating a 9-3 Hobart, and a 10-4 F&M

I'm also just tired of having to excuse every Ithaca loss to an inferior opponent as "These things happen," "It's hard to beat a team three times in one season" or whatever the excuse dejour happens to be when a very good Ithaca team loses a game they shouldn't. 

[magicman]

Results of Friday night's games.

 Elmira   58   Nazareth   69    
 
 St. John Fisher   54   Stevens   58   Overtime 
 
  Alfred   60   Hartwick   76    
 
  Utica   66   Rochester Tech   53  

[FROMAFAR]

All I can say is RIT lost to UC  I am upset BUT not surprised........Nice win for Ducks........although I thought they would hold home court against Cards..BUT it took O.T.   a win is a win...Hartwick is becoming consistant, doing what's expected, Naz wins one they should win.....Basically no surprises last night.....

Bomber 798891... I actually saw an E-8 game last night... Fisher- Ducks...... entertaining game, for sure.... Stevens is tough on the boards...  did not shoot well from long range, although Cutri was in foul trouble limiting his time, and he is their shooter. Stevens plays good defense though, that's key come tourney time, IF they make it..... Fisher is very robotic, at least they were last night. Here I go, no creativity at the point......I'll stop there.

[TheNextLevel]

----
The 5-15-5 theory has some merit...but as others have said - it depends on who you are playing on the bad nights.  Strength of schedule can throw that theory out the window. 

I feel it makes more sense to look at the teams actual schedule and break it down into 3 categories. 

1) Games that should be wins
2) Games that may be loses 
3) Games that could go either way

The #'s in each category will vary based on the strength of your team and the strength of your schedule.

A good, well coached team should:
-Lose no more than one game from column #1,
-Win 50 % from column #2
-Win 75% from column #3.
 
If this happens you have had a successful season
--------------------

[Bombers798891]

Results of Friday night's games.

 Elmira   58   Nazareth   69    
 
 St. John Fisher   54   Stevens   58   Overtime 
 
  Alfred   60   Hartwick   76    
 
  Utica   66   Rochester Tech   53  

Naz only by 11 over elmira? interesting.

The E8 looks like a mess right now. The way things are going, this could be a 1-bid conference...well, unless IC goes 21-4 and blows the conference tournament again (only kidding Bomber3). But seriously, everyone but IC and Stevens has 5 losses already...

[buck1053]

Results of Friday night's games.

 Elmira   58   Nazareth   69    
 
 St. John Fisher   54   Stevens   58   Overtime 
 
  Alfred   60   Hartwick   76    
 
  Utica   66   Rochester Tech   53  

Naz only by 11 over elmira? interesting.

The E8 looks like a mess right now. The way things are going, this could be a 1-bid conference...well, unless IC goes 21-4 and blows the conference tournament again (only kidding Bomber3). But seriously, everyone but IC and Stevens has 5 losses already...

I'm really curious to see how this season plays out. Despite the Bombers loss to Utica, it seems like they are the class of the E8, but after IC and Stevens, it's really hard to figure out. I mean Hartwick is 2-1 in the league, with wins over Naz and Alfred, and a loss to RIT. Everybody else, except for Elmira, is bunched up in the middle. I know it's early yet, but it seems like it's usually a little more separated.

[magicman]

Saturday's results


Rochester Tech   72   Elmira   55    
 
St. John Fisher   73   Hartwick   66  Overtime  
 
Alfred   57   Stevens   76  


Standings through Jan. 15th

1.   Ithaca                     4-1
1.   Stevens                   4-1
3.   St. John Fisher          4-2
3.   RIT                          4-2
5.   Hartwick                   2-2
6.   Nazareth                  2-3
6.   Utica                        2-3
8.   Alfred                       2-4
9.   Elmira                       0-6

[Cyclone0205]

So right now it looks like my E8 Rookie of the Year prediction is starting to play like it.  The kid Sabbatino from Stevens is going to be a player in this league.  He looked very good against Fisher, including a momentum changing drive/dunk, and put up his first double double against Alfred.  I know Hurley likes to stick with his seniors so Franklin is still starting, but in crunch time he is using a lot more of the Thompson, Cutri, Jones, Smith, Sabbatino lineup.

My assessment from the games this weekend:

vs. St John Fisher
   These teams are basically even.  The difference between these teams is simple:  Stevens has one athlete (Jones) , Fisher doesn't have a single athlete.  Because of that Jones is the only guy on the court who can take his man to the basket and "make the play", and in a tight game that is often what it comes down to.  High School, College, Pro...it's all the same.  If you do not have a wing player that can create his own shot you will be in trouble in tough games.

vs. Alfred
    AU is getting better, but not quite there yet.  Not a lot learned about Stevens from this one, but you have to beat these teams to advance so a good win for the Ducks. 

I think Stevens will end up in the E8 tourney as the 3 seed, Ithaca garnering the 1.  Not sold on the Ducks on the road, but they are looking good early.  Game versus Ithaca will be telling.

[magicman]

New Top 25 Poll is out and Ithaca took a slight dip as they fall from the 20th to the 22nd spot. Their point total dropped from 76 last week to 59 for this week. Plattsburgh State has fall completely out of the poll and NYU has also tumbled almost out of sight as they only receive 1 point this week after holding down the 25th spot last week. No other East region team recieved a single point. Should Ithaca suffer 1 or 2 more losses they will surely drop off the list and I don't think there will be any East team to replace them.  Ther are no 1 or 2 loss teams left in the region. About the only way another East team will get any recognition would be if they go on an extended winning streak and maybe in the last several weeks of the poll a 21-4 or 20-5 team may get some support. Especially with so many teams in the bottom 10 spots changing so frequently due to multiple losses. Here's the link to the complete Top 25:

http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2010-11/week7#

[Bombers798891]

Bombers top Elmira 101-67...nothing too spectacular, as only two bombers topped 15 points. Rossi with 9 assists and 1 turnover.

Congratulations to Chris Cruz Rivas for scoring his 1,000th career point, the 21st Bomber to do so.

[sjfcards]

Fisher took another big step toward making the Me tourney, and stayed in the running for top two with a big win over Naz. Fisher jumped out to a double digit lead, only to have naz come back and take their first lead early in the second. But Fisher scored the next 8 points, and never looked back. A real big win tonight, and a great way to bounce back after the loss to Stevens (both wins).

Some of the younger players are coming along for Fisher, and I am excited to see where they go from here. This weekend will be another huge weekend for Fisher.

[FROMAFAR]

Actually a big weekend....Fisher RIT will tell us something, and IC and Stevens big game. Kind of must win for IC being home.... by Must I mean to get home court in tourney, Stay ranked Nationally and locally. This also tells me if Stevens is for real. It appears right now, IC and Stevens have the upper hand, and Fisher, Rit and Hartwick looking for the other 2 spots. IF Stevens were to win, ( that would be huge for Ducks) than those 3 (maybe UC as well) looking for the next 2 spots. If Stevens loses (which should happen- would have all 5 still looking for those spots. Should I count NAZ out, hile still giving UC a chance.... I don't know. I guess best to wait until after weekend and then start all over