Empire 8

[Ethelred the Unready]

Oh yee gentlemen (and ladies too) with sharper minds then I - why would Ithaca "leapfrog" Rochester in the ratings?  Rochester did not lose?  Was the victory over Stevens on the road enough to justify the leap over a team that did not do anything to damage itself other than to get a bid? Inquiring minds want to know.

1) As far as I can see, Rochester's got three wins over regionally ranked teams: Two over Brandeis (#10 in the NE) and Emory (#8 in the South).

2) Ithaca's got: Two wins over Stevens (#4 in the East), and wins over Hobart (#5 East) and Franklin & Marshall (#7 in the Middle Atlantic)

So that's 4 wins to 3 for Ithaca.

3) Then let's look at common opponents: Rochester has losses to Hobart and Nazareth, teams Ithaca went 3-0 against.

4) I would suspect the Bombers had a better SOS, because in addition to the regional wins they also had OOC games in region to teams like Penn-State Behrend (22-3) and Oswego (22-3)--albeit losses. Those teams are also ranked  (#3 Great Lakes, #1 East)

More wins over regionally ranked opponents, better record against common opponents, tougher schedule (again, just taking a glance at schedules, it seems like IC would get the nod there). Even though the regional records is worse, seems like Ithaca's got a better overall body of work than Rochester

UR also has wins against Hobart and Naz

Yes, but since Ithaca does as well--and doesn't have the losses, those wins don't help them prove they're better than the Bombers.

Rochester went 6-2 in games against Hobart, St. Lawrence, Nazareth, RIT, Fisher and Elmira. Ithaca went 10-0 in games against those same teams. Advantage Bombers.

Just pointing out that UR is 4-1 against regionally ranked opponents with 1 left to play in Atlanta Saturday. 

[Bombers798891]

Oh yee gentlemen (and ladies too) with sharper minds then I - why would Ithaca "leapfrog" Rochester in the ratings?  Rochester did not lose?  Was the victory over Stevens on the road enough to justify the leap over a team that did not do anything to damage itself other than to get a bid? Inquiring minds want to know.

1) As far as I can see, Rochester's got three wins over regionally ranked teams: Two over Brandeis (#10 in the NE) and Emory (#8 in the South).

2) Ithaca's got: Two wins over Stevens (#4 in the East), and wins over Hobart (#5 East) and Franklin & Marshall (#7 in the Middle Atlantic)

So that's 4 wins to 3 for Ithaca.

3) Then let's look at common opponents: Rochester has losses to Hobart and Nazareth, teams Ithaca went 3-0 against.

4) I would suspect the Bombers had a better SOS, because in addition to the regional wins they also had OOC games in region to teams like Penn-State Behrend (22-3) and Oswego (22-3)--albeit losses. Those teams are also ranked  (#3 Great Lakes, #1 East)

More wins over regionally ranked opponents, better record against common opponents, tougher schedule (again, just taking a glance at schedules, it seems like IC would get the nod there). Even though the regional records is worse, seems like Ithaca's got a better overall body of work than Rochester

UR also has wins against Hobart and Naz

Yes, but since Ithaca does as well--and doesn't have the losses, those wins don't help them prove they're better than the Bombers.

Rochester went 6-2 in games against Hobart, St. Lawrence, Nazareth, RIT, Fisher and Elmira. Ithaca went 10-0 in games against those same teams. Advantage Bombers.

Just pointing out that UR is 4-1 against regionally ranked opponents with 1 left to play in Atlanta Saturday. 

Fair point. I just think the Bombers have an advantage. Likewise, they may face another regionally ranked team in the conference tournament.

Here's what's interesting to me though: Say Rochester beats Emory again. Does Emory stay regionally ranked? They're currently in the last spot in the South Region. Is it possible they get bumped off the list with that loss? I don't think that's likely to happen to the RR teams IC has beaten. I can't imagine Stevens and Hobart doing any worse than Buffalo State in the conference tournament, and even then, a second team would have to jump them. As for F&M, they may be a risk to drop, but three spots to un-ranked? IDK

If Emory were to fall off, and Stevens, F&M and Hobart stay on, then Rochester would be 3-1 against regionally ranked teams, Ithaca would be, what 5-2? So a slight advantage to Rochester there, but enough to overcome a worse record against common opponents and a worse overall SOS? Close one.

Obviously, I'm biased, and can't claim to know how the regional people do things. But that's part of the fun. Debates and what if's make it interesting.

[Ethelred the Unready]

Oh yee gentlemen (and ladies too) with sharper minds then I - why would Ithaca "leapfrog" Rochester in the ratings?  Rochester did not lose?  Was the victory over Stevens on the road enough to justify the leap over a team that did not do anything to damage itself other than to get a bid? Inquiring minds want to know.

1) As far as I can see, Rochester's got three wins over regionally ranked teams: Two over Brandeis (#10 in the NE) and Emory (#8 in the South).

2) Ithaca's got: Two wins over Stevens (#4 in the East), and wins over Hobart (#5 East) and Franklin & Marshall (#7 in the Middle Atlantic)

So that's 4 wins to 3 for Ithaca.

3) Then let's look at common opponents: Rochester has losses to Hobart and Nazareth, teams Ithaca went 3-0 against.

4) I would suspect the Bombers had a better SOS, because in addition to the regional wins they also had OOC games in region to teams like Penn-State Behrend (22-3) and Oswego (22-3)--albeit losses. Those teams are also ranked  (#3 Great Lakes, #1 East)

More wins over regionally ranked opponents, better record against common opponents, tougher schedule (again, just taking a glance at schedules, it seems like IC would get the nod there). Even though the regional records is worse, seems like Ithaca's got a better overall body of work than Rochester

UR also has wins against Hobart and Naz

Yes, but since Ithaca does as well--and doesn't have the losses, those wins don't help them prove they're better than the Bombers.

Rochester went 6-2 in games against Hobart, St. Lawrence, Nazareth, RIT, Fisher and Elmira. Ithaca went 10-0 in games against those same teams. Advantage Bombers.

Just pointing out that UR is 4-1 against regionally ranked opponents with 1 left to play in Atlanta Saturday. 

Fair point. I just think the Bombers have an advantage. Likewise, they may face another regionally ranked team in the conference tournament.

Here's what's interesting to me though: Say Rochester beats Emory again. Does Emory stay regionally ranked? They're currently in the last spot in the South Region. Is it possible they get bumped off the list with that loss? I don't think that's likely to happen to the RR teams IC has beaten. I can't imagine Stevens and Hobart doing any worse than Buffalo State in the conference tournament, and even then, a second team would have to jump them. As for F&M, they may be a risk to drop, but three spots to un-ranked? IDK

If Emory were to fall off, and Stevens, F&M and Hobart stay on, then Rochester would be 3-1 against regionally ranked teams, Ithaca would be, what 5-2? So a slight advantage to Rochester there, but enough to overcome a worse record against common opponents and a worse overall SOS? Close one.

Obviously, I'm biased, and can't claim to know how the regional people do things. But that's part of the fun. Debates and what if's make it interesting.

All things considered, I still don't know how you cobb together a "regional" ranking playing games in Chicago, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Boston, NYC and Atlanta.  Though it probably takes less travel time for UR to get to Atlanta than for Ithaca to get to Alfred

[Bombers798891]

All things considered, I still don't know how you cobb together a "regional" ranking playing games in Chicago, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Boston, NYC and Atlanta.  Though it probably takes less travel time for UR to get to Atlanta than for Ithaca to get to Alfred

Yeah, makes no sense to me either. I guess we just go with what we have.

[thebear]

UAA Always gets the advantages, comes from Money & Power.  Same for NESCAC.  A player who gets into and graduates from one of those schools is set for life...

[Ethelred the Unready]

UAA Always gets the advantages, comes from Money & Power.  Same for NESCAC.  A player who gets into and graduates from one of those schools is set for life...

Well...let's hope so

[Bengalsrule]

I can't imagine Stevens and Hobart doing any worse than Buffalo State in the conference tournament,

I can!!

[bomber3]

Big day for the Bombers as they face Fisher tonight in the E8 semifinals.  That's all I'm saying - don't want to jinx anything

Go Bombers!

[bomber3]

No mention of all conference?  Barera named POY, Suderley from Hartwick ROY, and Bobby Hurley from Stevens COY. 

First team:
Rossi - IC
Barera - IC
Patterson - UC
Ryder - Hartwick
Smith - Stevens

Jordan Marcus and Chris Cruz-Rivas second team for the Bombers. 

[Bombers798891]

Word to the wise: The weather/roads in Ithaca are absolutely BRUTAL. The college has apparently started "monitoring" the weather in regards to closing. What this means for the games tonight, idk, but if the weather gets much worse...

[Bombers798891]

Not to be the weather guy, or cost IC money, but from the looks of things, you may want to seriously consider staying home. According to the most recent report we're supposed to get 6-12 inches of heavy, wet snow through at earliest 5 p.m tonight, and who knows if they'll even bother plowing until after it all stops. Winds are supposed to be 15-30 mph. Really bad for traveling

If you do make the trek, please friends, be careful.

[FROMAFAR]

I don't have much to say... under the weather.  I pick IC by about 12, and Wick by 8.........BUT 

[magicman]

Stevens up on Hartwick at the half 40-33.

[bomber3]

damn.   

[magicman]

Crunch time at Stevens. 16 seconds left Stevens with the ball and a time out. Hartwick leading 74-73. Stevens comes down and attempts a 3 by Sheldon Jones but it's no good and goes out of bounds off Stevens. Hartwick inbounds and is quickly fouled. Mark Blazek goes to the line and hits them both.  76-73 Hawks lead. Hartwick fouls Mike Cutri before he can get off a 3 and he goes to the line. he misses the 1st and Stevens takes a time out. Cutri deliberately misses the 2nd gets the rebound and calls time out. Stevens inbounds and attempts a game tying 3 by Kevin McManamy but it 's not close. Game over, Hawks win.