Empire 8

[FROMAFAR]

Hey guys, Stevens needs to win the e-8 to get in...AS I BELIEVE IC very may well have to win to get in too.


That's from a post I put in before the tourney....... Bomber 987.... is right.... neither team should go.........this conference took a few steps back this year. While IC is legit, JUST NOT hungry........You could see this Stevens loss coming..They are not GREAT at home, and hey can't score with an IC OR Hartwick if they are on. Their defense is good, Smith is a monster... Jones came from No Where.  way above his head... Cutri has talent but seems to get lost in the game sometimes  Thompson looks like a deer in the head lights, plays not to make mistakes..... Needs to be more gutsy....The bench is young..... They really played above their heads this year.  BUT  

[bomber3]

to needing a miracle to have a shot.

No,
Stevens has absolutely no shot at getting in. The E8's not sending three teams to the NCAA's

..thats essentially what I said.

See how selectively highlighting things works? Not only did you qualify your original statement of "Stevens sealed their fate" with your whole miracle thing, you qualified the rebuttal of my post by saying that's "essentially" what you said.

There's no miracle that can save Stevens. They were done the second the Bombers finished blowing their game, but Oswego State and Rochester just piled on for good fun.

In a related story, what the heck happened to the East Region? The 1-5 seeds all lost. Brutal weekend.

Needing a miracle is essentially saying the same thing as it ain't happening.  Are they 100% out?  No, probably like 99.9%. Stevens was the 4 seed in the region so there are crazier things that have happened than if they got in.  As stated in my previous post, Oneonta State was the 4 seed in the East Region in the final standings last year and received an at-large bid.  Yes, they won a game or two in the playoffs so that helped their cause.  At no point in the NCAA's at-large selection criteria do they ever consider the # of teams in the conference or region that are awarded automatic/at large bids. So the fact Hartwick received a bid and IC probably is getting a bid never comes into play.  Comments like "The E8's not sending three teams to the NCAA's" or similar statements about the east region's # of at-large bids don't make much sense.

[bomber3]

Bomber plus lots of numbers - I, too, do not think that Ithaca deserves the right to expect to go.  Their playoff performance in recent history has been pitiful.  At some point someone on the coaching staff has to say "we have to prepare differently because what we have been doing isn't working".  The talent on some of those teams was without question the best in the league if not the entire east but when you lose so many games at home in a row your team is playing tight or you aren't preparing the proper game plan.  I can not say I am an insider here, but at some point the coaching staff has to take some ownership in an effort to break the "curse of the Bulb-o" (with apologies to Babe Ruth & the Red Sox).

As stated previously, past playoff performance, as pitiful as it may be, never comes into consideration during the selection process.   So that is not a legitimate or relevant reason to say they shouldn't expect to go. 

[d3lifer]

Congratulations to the Hartwick Hawks on their win, was a great scene at Lambros Arena as the Hawks squad controled the tempo and secured a 13th trip to the NCAA's for the storied Hartwick program but first in the last 15 years. Nice to see a great atmosphere on Oyaron Hill.

[sjfcards]

Congratulations to the Hartwick Hawks on their win, was a great scene at Lambros Arena as the Hawks squad controled the tempo and secured a 13th trip to the NCAA's for the storied Hartwick program but first in the last 15 years. Nice to see a great atmosphere on Oyaron Hill.

I will add my congratulations to HC. No doubt the better team won today. Hartwick was lights out from three (almost 60% I think) and they dictated how the game would be played from the start.
For Fisher, something to build on for next year I hope, but this has been a pretty bad stretch for the Fisher program. Outside of last years team, which had a good season, they have been fighting for the 4th seed more than the top seed.

[Bombers798891]

to needing a miracle to have a shot.

No,
Stevens has absolutely no shot at getting in. The E8's not sending three teams to the NCAA's

..thats essentially what I said.

See how selectively highlighting things works? Not only did you qualify your original statement of "Stevens sealed their fate" with your whole miracle thing, you qualified the rebuttal of my post by saying that's "essentially" what you said.

There's no miracle that can save Stevens. They were done the second the Bombers finished blowing their game, but Oswego State and Rochester just piled on for good fun.

In a related story, what the heck happened to the East Region? The 1-5 seeds all lost. Brutal weekend.

Needing a miracle is essentially saying the same thing as it ain't happening.  Are they 100% out?  No, probably like 99.9%. Stevens was the 4 seed in the region so there are crazier things that have happened than if they got in.  As stated in my previous post, Oneonta State was the 4 seed in the East Region in the final standings last year and received an at-large bid.  Yes, they won a game or two in the playoffs so that helped their cause.  At no point in the NCAA's at-large selection criteria do they ever consider the # of teams in the conference or region that are awarded automatic/at large bids. So the fact Hartwick received a bid and IC probably is getting a bid never comes into play.  Comments like "The E8's not sending three teams to the NCAA's" or similar statements about the east region's # of at-large bids don't make much sense.

And why would Stevens even stay at four? The six seed, Buffalo State, won a pair of games. There's a decent chance they jump Stevens. The Ducks were borderline, and that was before teams like Oswego State, WPI, and IC got thrown into the at-large pool

http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/d3-bracketology.html

One man's opinion, but the Ducks, by the looks of things, are cooked.

[Bombers798891]

At some point someone on the coaching staff has to say "we have to prepare differently because what we have been doing isn't working". 

Here's the problem: The style works-- I mean, you don't go 79-21 over four years in the regular season if you're not doing something right.

The issue is, at least in my view, is that the team is too easily frustrated when the shots don't fall, gets lazy on defense, and tries to make it all up at once on the other end. It seems like Ithaca gets really rushed on offense when they aren't hitting shots. They fire up threes quickly, but then, if they don't fall, there's no-one in position to get a rebound.

Consider, the Bombers were +7 and +2 in rebounds in the two previous games against Fisher. In this one, they were -14. That's a massive swing. And so many of them where instances where there was just no-one in position to even get one.

Here's hoping the projection is right, and Ithaca gets another chance to break the skid.

[FROMAFAR]

There is absolutely no way Stevens is going to the dance........I wish they were, but thye are in a conference that has not been thought about in the top 25, they never not votes... If they get a bid, I would lobve to know how?  I don't think IC is going.....however it could be justified giving them a bid.........

My thought on IC is, as we all agree, they don't play defense... that can hurt when your opponent does. Fisher plays. They are limited on offense, however the combination of good defense against IC and Fisher taking advantage of that by scoring more than they usually do, did IC in....I don't buy there is a constant between each year and you can point to the same issue every year ( Losing in the first round) The team has a bit of a different make up each year... The only constant is the coaching ----- Ducks and IC -- maybe the coach is the issue, or just maybe the teams beating them have had better night. Whether it's Fisher, Naz, now Hartwick, these schools have done both Stevens iand IC in at crunch time over the last few years Tourney's. Tough to blame one thing.... Hey this conference has shown ALMOST anyone can beat anyone... So when we come to the tourney we all prognosticate.  That's fun, based on whatever mindset we have and criteria. As I sad a few times, the only thing consistant in this league is inconsistancy. That actually makes it more interesting.   IC clearly on the "BUBBLE", and Stevens a 1 seed in ECAC...      

[AUKaz00]

Usually just a lurker on the bball boards, but after this weekend this seems more than a little bit prophetic:

I can't imagine Stevens and Hobart doing any worse than Buffalo State in the conference tournament,

I can!!

East Region Results:

1. Oswego- Loss, 70-74
2. Ithaca-    Loss, 78-88
3. Rochester- TBD
4. Stevens- Loss, 73-76
5. Hobart- Loss, 62-60
6. Buffalo State- Win 87-79

Ye gods.

[FROMAFAR]

AUKaz00    When your right your right...........

[Bengalsrule]

Usually just a lurker on the bball boards, but after this weekend this seems more than a little bit prophetic:

I can't imagine Stevens and Hobart doing any worse than Buffalo State in the conference tournament,

I can!!

The "Lurker" has spoken!

[Bombers798891]

My thought on IC is, as we all agree, they don't play defense... that can hurt when your opponent does. Fisher plays. They are limited on offense, however the combination of good defense against IC and Fisher taking advantage of that by scoring more than they usually do, did IC in....I don't buy there is a constant between each year and you can point to the same issue every year ( Losing in the first round) The team has a bit of a different make up each year... The only constant is the coaching ----- Ducks and IC -- maybe the coach is the issue, or just maybe the teams beating them have had better night.    

It's funny you mention the makeup of the team being different. In talking to someone prior to the game, I heard a, "We can score in different ways than the 2009 team. We won't need to take 41 three-pointers." Well, 34 isn't far off.

As for the coaching, I think they've done a good job. I mean, if you've been following IC basketball for any period of time, there's no denying this is the best stretch in school history.

The previous best four-year stretch saw IC go 71-37 from 1991-1994 with one NCAA win. These last four years? 79-26, and still a shot at an NCAA run. Sure, maybe they could find a coach who could get them some postseason wins, but odds are, the program would backslide. I'm not a fan of getting rid of anyone who takes the program into uncharted waters, regardless of the postseason foibles.

[Bombers798891]

D3hoops has IC in, projected to play Penn State Berhend again.

That would be an interesting matchup. IC lost to them by 11 earlier this season, but shot well (51% overall, 52% from three). Ithaca only took five free throws, and only one in the second half--no comment.

The defense was absent, as usual. PSB was 14-of-20 from 2 in the second half.

However, I think, IC could win a rematch.

For one, Phil Barera only played 19 mins in that game due to foul trouble, but had 16 points on 8-of-9 shooting. And Miles Grier was still adjusting to the college game. Those first games, he really was invisible offensively, but in his last seven, has gone into double digits six times. That increased offense means he can spell Oztemel more and help the defense out.

I would welcome that rematch

[FROMAFAR]

Bomber 987... As usual, I should have been clearer. I wouldn't change coaches either and never indict one...Don't want see anyomne lose their job...The point I tried to make is... the players change and results are similar. The only constant being the coach...However in these cases the team is getting into the league tourney which I am sure some of the other e-8 teams would welcome. Sort of like the Buffalo Bills of E-8 basketball... sort of.........I think instead of finding a flaw with IC and Stevens in the e-8 tourney, I should be giving more credit to the winners.

Great Job WICK...make us proud..... SJF your always there one way or the other. I still find it hard to see IC get in NCAA... but what do I know   If they do we have two shots.....

[Bombers798891]

Bombers get in AND host a four team regional. IC vs MIT, with Rochester and Elms as well.

Redemption begins Friday night