Empire 8

[rjcarter8]

Alfred 51, St. John Fisher 50

Fantastic inspiration for the Hartwick Hawks. Great job Alfred! The Hartwick Hawks have too much history in their program to fold like a cheap suit. I have no doubt they will win again, particulary against Elmira and Alfred (Game 1 was a fluke). This is not to say that something could fall their way at Naz and RIT this weekend.

What history are you referring to?

Is it the history since the 1998-99 season, during which Hartwick has gone 58-148, including this year's current 7-9 record?

Or is it the history of the Nick Lambros era (20 years from 1977-78 season to 1997-98), when the Hawks were 353-191?

Hartwick also has not had a season with single-digit losses since the 1995-96 season when it was 17-9, has not had a season with a winning record since the 1999-00 year with a 14-12 mark.

This year Hartwick is 7-9, with a 7-game losing streak.

I'd say the school's recent history has seen plenty of folding.

I'm not trying to get down on what Culpo is doing there, because I think he means well and is trying to rebuild a program, but there have been chemistry issues since he arrived. I think the mix of talent he's brought in -- and there's been plenty of talent -- has not been able to mesh, causing issues in the wins department.

[postup101]

If you log onto http://www.hartwick.edu/x2742.xml you find the history of Hartwick Hawks.

Here are some highlights:

-Out of 75 season, Hartwick has had 50 win seasons (.67%)
-From 1946-47 to 1996-1997 (50 Seasons), Hartwick only had 5 losing seasons
-Between Nick Lambros (353-191) and Roy Chipman (167-52) the Hawks went on a 21 year role going 544-243 (.691%).

-The 75 year combined winning percentage is .580

Within the Empire 8, Hartwick is the oldest and most decorated basketball institution (based on program history).

--------------------
I think Coach Culpo has done a great job with recruiting, all things considering. Before coming to Hartwick Coach Culpo gained recruiting experience at UMASS and also overseas. Since coming to Hartwick, Coach Culpo has dealt with numerous issues beyond his control when it comes to rebuilding the program. If money wasn't an issue Coach Culpo would probably be competing with a championship caliber team. With Culpo's recruiting skills and the rich basketball tradition at Hartwick he is the right man for the job, providing he is given the right resources.

[Caz Bombers]

Postup101--

When you've been doing nothing but sucking relentlessly for the past 9 years, or since the members of Hartwick's senior class were in junior high, you lose the right to bore the rest of us with your claims of "tradition."

AUPepBand--

Had a summer job in Fishkill back in the day.  I live on the other side of the river about 50 minutes from there.

[postup101]

Postup101--

When you've been doing nothing but sucking relentlessly for the past 9 years, or since the members of Hartwick's senior class were in junior high, you lose the right to bore the rest of us with your claims of "tradition."

The past 9 seasons account for 12% of the overall history of Hartwick Basketball program. What about the remaining 88% or 66 seasons? Hartwick has every right to call its basketball program a rich tradition. Oh and by the way the program winning percentage before our 9 skid was .624. Talk about a Tradition!

[dmcclintock]

hahaha...i can't hate postup...the fact that he is still fighting the goodfight for a laughable program is kind of admirable...rumble on postup rumble on....anyways what are the matchups for this week...who does utica play and where...and what about the other 2-6 teams in the empire 6...i mean 8...sorry elmira and hartwick...

[bamm]

Utica and Hartwick make trips to RIT and Naz.
Elmira and Ithaca go to Fisher and Alfred.

If Utica sweeps this weekend (I don't think they will), get ready for the first E8 tourney outside of Rochester.

[AUPepBand]

POST-UP:
AUPepBand can't argue with you about Hartwick's basketball tradition. The fact is, Hartwick, at one time, was always winning. In fact, the year AU made it to the NCAA East Regional Finals with a buzzer-beating half-court shot to nip Naz, Pep made the l o n g  trip to Potsdam to see AU, under Coach Ron Frederes, get thumped by Potsdam before a somewhat intimidating partisan Bear crowd. A Potsdam fan, seeing that AU was no match for his Bears, said, "Hey, Alfred beat Hartwick? How'd they beat Hartwick!" Potsdam was a force at that time and its fans acknowledged Hartwick as a true nemesis and force in D3.

AU has a similar claim in football based on Alex Yunevich's stellar coaching career. But Alex is six feet under. AU must now live in the present. And, Pep is pleased to say that the Saxons are "moving in the right direction" but AU cannot claim a national (or East Regional) football title. Fact is, 50 years ago this week, Coach Yunevich was in Washington, D.C. accepting from the Washington Touchdown Club an award acknowledging Alfred as the "National Small College Football Champion" based on its second consecutive undefeated season. Guess one could say that was Alfred's national title.

Suffice it to say, post-up, that Hartwick is, perhaps, moving in the right direction. But D3 posters, for the most part, aren't interested in history, Pep has learned first hand. They are interested in the present. At present, making wild claims that the 'wick can still make ECACs are only jeopardizing your credibility as a poster. AU beat the 'wick by 16 in Oneonta and you call it a fluke? AU has been on the road for 12 of its first 14 games and the Saxons' record shows, now at 5-10. Overall record doesn't matter much with an AQ for the E8....making the E8 Tourney is the first goal and peaking in the tourney is of equal importance.

Best of luck to you and your Hawks!

[b4the3isme]

AU- good post.  Post-up I love your optimism but you'd be best served tempering it with some realism. Right now with both the LL and the E8 in a muddled mess (with the exception of Utica) everyone has a loss or two I think the chances of at large bids are severely reduced unless someone goes a tear.  That being said if league champions hold true to form and win their respective playoffs that leaves a lot of teams vying for those 8 ECAC spots. For instance Clarkson at 10-6 is in a free fall right now but they have wins over Utica, Hamilton, RIT, and Oswego and at 1-4 in their league they don't have a much of a chance at anything but an ECAC shot. I just don't see at this point any signature wins at Hartwick to hang an ECAC bid on.

[assassin]

Pep, nice work.  What do you think about Alfred's inconistency and underachieving over the past 6-8 years on the court.  They've had some VERY talented teams but for some reason always seem to breakdown.  What do you think was their most talented squad during that time and what are your thoughts on this year's team?

[FisherDynasty]

I think we need to use the word talented a little more lightly or atleast change the context.  Alfred has not had many talented teams, yes stein and quentin bryant were good the past few years but no others on the team id say were talented, they were okay.  we always say naz is so talented or other teams like hartwick has had talent, what is talent? scoring 20 points on an inconsistent basis on a below average team? the only team in the E8 that i consider to have talent besides Fisher who has made runs in the ncaa, last years utica squad can be considered, and for purposes of this argument a the only talented teams in the E8 in recent years in my opinion that did not do anything was the Naz team with maroney, evans, laseka, shiply, the other big guy and steck and the elmira team with corin jackson, robertson, the 2 really good guards and the big guy in the middle.   Those teams had 5 very good basketball players on their team but could not win the E8.  the word talented team should be used for a team that has five very good players, yeah a few teams in the league the past 4 years has had 2 mayyybe 3 but not more then that.

[AUPepBand]

Pep, nice work.  What do you think about Alfred's inconistency and underachieving over the past 6-8 years on the court.  They've had some VERY talented teams but for some reason always seem to breakdown.  What do you think was their most talented squad during that time and what are your thoughts on this year's team?

Pep would rather not answer that as he has had a rather negative first-hand experience with the AU basketball program and any remarks certainly would be tainted by that. Suffice it to say this year's team appears to be pulling together despite its many adversities and any success to date can be attributed to the team's guts and determination most emphatically at the defensive end. Go Saxons!

[gobombers15]

I think we need to use the word talented a little more lightly or atleast change the context.  Alfred has not had many talented teams, yes stein and quentin bryant were good the past few years but no others on the team id say were talented, they were okay.  we always say naz is so talented or other teams like hartwick has had talent, what is talent? scoring 20 points on an inconsistent basis on a below average team? the only team in the E8 that i consider to have talent besides Fisher who has made runs in the ncaa, last years utica squad can be considered, and for purposes of this argument a the only talented teams in the E8 in recent years in my opinion that did not do anything was the Naz team with maroney, evans, laseka, shiply, the other big guy and steck and the elmira team with corin jackson, robertson, the 2 really good guards and the big guy in the middle.   Those teams had 5 very good basketball players on their team but could not win the E8.  the word talented team should be used for a team that has five very good players, yeah a few teams in the league the past 4 years has had 2 mayyybe 3 but not more then that.

I'd say IC's 2001-02 team was talented with Fischer, Riggins, Miller, Schultz, Wallen, Clifford, et al. That team won the E8 and went toe-to-toe with a very good Alvernia team that was playing in front of a packed gym. I think McGraw called that game (I could be wrong) with Seth Cantor and I remember how bad the officiating was. When I say bad, I mean atrocious. To the point where I think Mullins got ran. You don't see that too often in D3.

[UCgrad45]

Utica had a team a few years back with Cichon, Lucas and Adames. A lot of the key and role players of the last few years were Freshmen on that team (Lighthall, Bitetto, Collier). Second seester, UC picked up Tim Troy and Jemar Bryant.  They went from 1-5 to 16-12 and 10-4 in Conference. They ended up missing the NCAA automatic bid by 3 points. They were without a doubt a very talented team.

[tigerfan2]

Pep, nice work.  What do you think about Alfred's inconistency and underachieving over the past 6-8 years on the court.  They've had some VERY talented teams but for some reason always seem to breakdown.  What do you think was their most talented squad during that time and what are your thoughts on this year's team?

Pep would rather not answer that as he has had a rather negative first-hand experience with the AU basketball program and any remarks certainly would be tainted by that. Suffice it to say this year's team appears to be pulling together despite its many adversities and any success to date can be attributed to the team's guts and determination most emphatically at the defensive end. Go Saxons!

The AU teams in the 99-00 thru 01-02 certain had some talent, probably with the 00-01 being the most talented, that year they had a very strong team. With Downing, McKinnon, Stortini, Docteur, Burley, Rogers, Stedman, they were pretty talented. Unfortunately they lost several of these guys to injuries at different times, included Will Smith who didn't even play when they got Downing back. It also didn't help them that Murphy was their coach.

RIT's 99-00 team when they went to the NCAA's was pretty talented as well with Redmond, Butler, Garth Louis, Hagemann, as well as some good freshman such as Stanton coming in off the bench that year.

[AUPepBand]

Downing, Docteur, McKinnon (He's Tall!) were all talented, not to mention Quentin "Q" Bryant of more recent years. McKinnon was probably more tall than talented, but  Pep remembers him having an absurd number (6 or 8?) of dunks in his home finale. Pep had opportunity to play against him in a few pick-up games and actually is credited with a strip of the big guy.