Empire 8

[UCgrad45]

Utica is much weaker than UCgrad implies. Having that one player Whyte would not have been a major difference in the Ithaca game.

Not trying to start anything, but not sure how representative of anything that IC/Potsdam game was. Goes without saying Ithaca is a completely different team with Bostic playing and he wasn't playing.

Sorry Bomber, just couldn't pass up the obvious contradiction.  To be fair, Bostic is a proven impact player.  Whyte isn't proven.   He'll be back playing soon and we'll see what happens.  An athletic big is always helpful, but the challenge for UC is building a team out of a group of talented individuals.  As Bomber says - chemistry.

Understandable. But I'm not so sure I contradicted bombersquadron. I was simply saying that the absence of Bostic hurt Ithaca against Potsdam. I think most would agree that it did. BS was saying that the absence of Whyte didn't make a difference in the IC/UC game. Again, I refuse to pass judgment on that because I know zero about Whyte. However, I think most of us can agree that sometimes the absent player will have a huge impact on the game, sometimes a minimal impact, or even no impact at all. Just depends on the player, I guess.

More than any other team, I think the early-season conference play is going to hurt Utica. Of the competitors, they're the team that needs time to find themselves the most. They probably would have been better off under the usual conference schedule. With that said, they should still be right in the mix for an E8 Tourney spot. I must admit, though, I am a little bit surprised by how close today's game vs Elmira was. The Pios still had Herring, Goodman, Patterson, McClendon playing and that should be more than enough against anemic Elmira.

If you look back over the last 4 or 5 seasons, UC seems to always only win by a few points AT Elmira, no matter how good the team is. They then blow them out at Utica. Elmira isn't scared of anybody, which may be the result of playing teams like Colgate last season. IIRC, they beat some teams late last season that nobody thought they could.

You also need to remember that because of their success the last few years, Utica and Fisher are the two teams that have targets on their backs. They always get the best effort from everybody. A team mostly full of young players and transfers doesn't know what that is like. Hopefully the first league weekend was enough to show them that they are going to need to bring it every night.

[UCgrad45]

UC Grad

I was at the Potsdam-UC Scrimmage.  Smacked is a bit strong.  When the regulars played, UC won the first 1/2, by about 12, but it was tied with 4 mins to go, then Potsdam started to foul to for UC to make free throws.

After Whyte got hurt, Potsdam did win the second 20 minute session amongst the regulars by 4.

The smacking took place in the two 10 minute sessions with the rooks.  Potsdam was missing a couple of players for the usual reasons, and had to play some people out of position.

I would say Ithaca, with Bostic, will challenge for the e8 title this year.

I have to admit, I was baiting. Waiting for the "but Bostic didn't play".

Ithaca will challenge. They, like a lot of the new players at UC, need to learn how to win. There were many points late in the Ithaca UC game that Ithaca players took shots that were ill advised and happened to make them. When you are up 7 with about 4 minutes to play, taking 35 foot jumpers with 27 seconds on the shot clock is not knowing how to win. It worked out for them on that night, but that is more of the exception than the rule.

[bball05]

i just looked at uticas page nd it said munch hit the game winner. everytime i look at the boxscores of the game he never takes more than 2 shots nd he hit the game winner?

[bombersquadron]

UC Grad, I personally don't think Whyte would have made much of a difference in the game Friday night. He is probably much improved from last season, he was behind good players but he didn't do anything special when he played. I don't think he would have made such a drastic impact to take over a game in which Ithaca controlled in the second half. As point taken for the bear's post, it seems UC didn't smack Potsdam and on top of that was a scrimmage. Ithaca blew away SunyIT in a scrimmage by forty points, but that has no relevance to the Ithaca- Utica game.

After seeing Friday's game I think Utica is much weaker than in years past and will have to rebuild this season and won't have the ability to reload. With the overall strength of the league this year I think Utica will have a very tough time in league play. Hopefully both teams are at full strength in early Jan and they can go out and play each other with everyone healthy. 

[UCgrad45]

i just looked at uticas page nd it said munch hit the game winner. everytime i look at the boxscores of the game he never takes more than 2 shots nd he hit the game winner?

A little known fact about Munch is that he can score. He just focuses on his role.

[triplethreat]

Fisher down BIG at Stevens....49-28 OUCH!!

[Caz Bombers]

I think we're all being given our answer about Stevens today and we're all playing for second place.

[triplethreat]

Fisher gets dismantled by Stevens 80-65 the score doesnt indicate how much of a blowout the game was.  Stevens will win this conference. Fisher continues to search for answeers and is now 1-3.  Ozell looks like he should get 25+ minutes a game, and start...

[Cyclone0205]

Just got home from the Stevens/Fisher "game".  The post ahead of me was right, this game was over after the first 5 minutes.  Stevens went up something like 17-7 and cruised from there.  At one point in the second half they were up 27 and were up 21 until the final minute of the game.

Key Notes:

Stevens is WAY too athletic for Fisher.  A completely healthy Fisher team still isn't athletic enough to stay in front of Gray, Farid, or Baker.  It was so bad that Fisher actually voluntarily had to go zone...against a team that went 7-14 from 3 in the first half.

The missing Big absolutely doomed SJF today.  Tim Williams went for 18 and 7 easily, and manhandled the post down low.  Beigl, in what I'm hearing is typical fashion, fouled his way on to the bench trying to guard him.  The kid is a player and does this despite not getting as many touches as he really should.

Ozell Franklin should start for Fisher.  This is my first time seeing them play and I've seen some of the other guards, but he is clearly their best athlete and one of their better all around players.  I know he's a freshman and it's early, but you can see that he should be on the floor from the tip.  Played very well today.


What's the deal with Baltz?  No foul trouble and only played 20 minutes.  Granted his defense wasn't all that great in the man to man, but neither was anyone else's.  I think that was a coach's mistake, especially since they ended up sitting in zone most of the 2nd half anyway.

Fisher was able to score easy layups on from baseline cuts when they executed.  Unfortunately this wasn't very frequent, but may serve as a bit of a warning flag to the Stevens team. 

Stevens is not a very deep team.  I saw Baker and the kid Higgins come in, plus the two bigs, but none of them play a lot.  Doesn't seem like they have a backup behind Greco, as Gray or Baker shared ballhandling duties when he wasn't in. 



I probably won't see Stevens again until February.  Hoping to get to the Ithaca game because I think that'll be the game of the 2 teams that will meet to decide the conference come March, but I may be away on business.  If you have questions about the game leave them here and I'll try to answer.

[triplethreat]

Thanks for the info cyclone....A couple questions to ask ya.  What were the matchups?  Who started on who defensively for both teams?  I see that a few fisher guys that see usual minutes only get 11 or fewer.  I am wondering if this is Kornaker sittin most of his older guys and getting his younger guys more experience.  Overall after seeing the score early on I was shocked seeing Fisher down 51-28.  I would have loved to see last years teams battle it out.  With McSweeney and Mueller in the lineup for Fisher and the Williams kid healthy last year.  Both teams last year went to the Sweet 16 so would be an interesting outcome from last years teams....

[Cyclone0205]

If I remember correctly

Williams - Beigl
Newman - Passalacqua
Baltz - Gray
Bearden - Farid
Coyne - Greco



Both teams pretty much played these matchups.  I'm not sure what Kornaker was doing.  I think he was just looking for a spark going with the bench guys.  Stevens jumped on them early so I think it was a situation where he was trying to get something outta anybody.

[JQV]

When you are up 7 with about 4 minutes to play, taking 35 foot jumpers with 27 seconds on the shot clock is not knowing how to win.

Based on what?  Basketball cliches propogated by unimaginative coaches that think they are Norman Dale?  There is no way to make a blanket statement like that. 

[maxpower]

Ithaca will challenge. They, like a lot of the new players at UC, need to learn how to win. There were many points late in the Ithaca UC game that Ithaca players took shots that were ill advised and happened to make them. When you are up 7 with about 4 minutes to play, taking 35 foot jumpers with 27 seconds on the shot clock is not knowing how to win. It worked out for them on that night, but that is more of the exception than the rule.

Can you please explain to me how this means anything other than "need to learn how to play basketball better"?

[reelentless]

need to learn how to win.

Can you please explain to me how this means anything other than "need to learn how to play basketball better"?

I'm not sure why UCGrad's statement is being questioned.  Is it unusual to discuss winning traits - being tough, aware, making good decisions under pressure etc. separately from atheletic skills and sport competence?   Not in my experience.

And Jose, if wanting your player to take that 35 footer at 7 seconds and not 27 qualifies as unimaginative I'm afraid you'll have trouble finding an imaginative coach.

[bball05]

any1 got a score on the utica game?