Empire 8

[bombersquadron]

The main problems in last night games where starting starting slow, points the paint and points off turnovers. Ithaca dug themselves a hole at the start of both the first and second half. That is something that takes a lot of energy to come back from and when guys are playing heavy minutes (40, 35 and 35) you run out of gas.

Smalt and Beigel both had great games, shot 17 of 27 and combined for 39 points. They had a lot of time to go to work inside, got to get a feel for the defender make some dribbles and make any move they wanted. That really hurt Ithaca, just like Newman and McKeever, did as well.  To think you would hold Baltz to 8 points and lose is very tough.

Lastly it was points off turnovers, it seemed like Fisher got every lose ball and converted on the offensive end. IThaca couldn't convert their steals in to points and got beat to all loose balls.

I think those are all adjustments and effort realated things that Ithaca can use to prepare for a week from today. I expect another great game up at Fisher.

As for Beigel, he was down on the floor and looked to be in pain. After the game he had ice on the ankle and was walking on crutches. I don't know what to think of it, he was putting weight on the ankle, he wasn't just using the good foot, so that makes me think its not severe, but who knows how fast it will heal.

[jasper]

Newman with 22 is what killed Ithaca. No reason he should ever score that many. When I saw him play against Utica a couple weeks ago, I honestly thought he was a game or two from losing his starting spot to Franklin for the rest of his career. He just looked lost and had no confidence on the offensive end.

Bostic needs to be more involved second time around for these two teams. He's too much of a matchup problem for teams to not be used properly. He's capable of getting Beigel and/or Smalt in foul trouble

Losing his starting spot?? Obviously you don't know Fisher. Franklin is not ready to start. He is streaky and cannot handle the ball. He is called for a carry every game. His defense is terrible (McAdam scored on him 3 times in a row late in the game against Naz) Say what you will but Newman is going to be a great player. He can score, pass, play d and can rebound very well for his height.

It's kinda hard for Bostic to be involved when Burton shoots 27 times and only hits 11. I know he had 37 points but he did miss 10 three's. From what i saw yes he did have some nice blocks on Fisher's big men but most of the time Beigel and Smart scored easily with lay-ups.

[gobombers15]

I have no problem with Burton shooting 27 times if he's going to score 37. The old adage is that you have to score at least one point for every FG attempted. He had almost 1.5 pts/FG attempt, that's exceptional. 

Re: Newman/Franklin, for a long time Franklin was playing much better than Newman. Franklin was the only player who did anything against Stevens the first time around. Franklin may be outta control sometimes, but I think he brings a lot more to the table than Newman (based on two seasons of seeing Newman), namely some added quickness to Fisher.

[sjfcards]

The main problems in last night games where starting starting slow, points the paint and points off turnovers. Ithaca dug themselves a hole at the start of both the first and second half. That is something that takes a lot of energy to come back from and when guys are playing heavy minutes (40, 35 and 35) you run out of gas.

Smalt and Beigel both had great games, shot 17 of 27 and combined for 39 points. They had a lot of time to go to work inside, got to get a feel for the defender make some dribbles and make any move they wanted. That really hurt Ithaca, just like Newman and McKeever, did as well.  To think you would hold Baltz to 8 points and lose is very tough.

Lastly it was points off turnovers, it seemed like Fisher got every lose ball and converted on the offensive end. IThaca couldn't convert their steals in to points and got beat to all loose balls.

I think those are all adjustments and effort realated things that Ithaca can use to prepare for a week from today. I expect another great game up at Fisher.

As for Beigel, he was down on the floor and looked to be in pain. After the game he had ice on the ankle and was walking on crutches. I don't know what to think of it, he was putting weight on the ankle, he wasn't just using the good foot, so that makes me think its not severe, but who knows how fast it will heal.

Sounds just about right to me. That basically was the difference in an otherwise even game, between even teams. Fisher played well, especially on the road. I think Fisher and IC are very close in overall team ability, hence the similar records, and close game between them. It would not suprise me to see either team, if not both, pull an upset in the E8 tournament.

As far as Newman/Franklin goes, it could be nice to have both of them on the floor for a few more years. Maybe turn one of them into more of a two guard, and have both of them to bring the ball up the floor. It would take away from their overall team size with Baltz playing a small forward, but Fisher has to rebuild at the big men spots after thisyear anyway. Also, Franklin can rebound very well with his jumping ability, so he can pull down rebounds in an undersized lineup. If Fisher can get some big men in this years recruiting class, it can lead to some success down the road.

[jasper]

I have no problem with Burton shooting 27 times if he's going to score 37. The old adage is that you have to score at least one point for every FG attempted. He had almost 1.5 pts/FG attempt, that's exceptional. 

Re: Newman/Franklin, for a long time Franklin was playing much better than Newman. Franklin was the only player who did anything against Stevens the first time around. Franklin may be outta control sometimes, but I think he brings a lot more to the table than Newman (based on two seasons of seeing Newman), namely some added quickness to Fisher.

Well you did have a problem with Bostic not getting involved so what is it? If Burton is gonna shot like he did last night Bostic is not gonna get involved. It may be exceptional but it came in a game that Ithaca lost.

Now back to Franklin i disagree, Newman overall is a better smarter player. Franklin may be quicker but he doesn't use it to his advantage expecially on the defensive end. (reference McAdam)  I am no way a huge Newman fan because truth be known i think McKeever handles the point better but Newman overall has done a better job than Franklin.

[Cyclone0205]

Having seen them both play quite a bit there is no question that Franklin is a better option that Newman.  He's quicker, more of a matchup problem on the offensive end, and a much better athlete.  Given the talent on the floor, someone like Franklin is needed much more than Newman.  In years past, when Fisher had some size and other options, Franklin probably would have been better off the bench.  I know you keep bringing up the McAdam's thing for defense, but really, who in the conference has stopped the kid all season consistently.  I mean it's not like he was letting trash score on him...its an all conference player.


Problem is, Ozell is not, and should not, play the point.  He is a 2 guard.  However, if you are asking me to put my 5 best basketball players on the court, and the last spot came down to Ozell/Newman...its Ozell.

[bamm]

RIT effectively ends any shot Utica had at a tourney bid today.  The three big scorers -- Gethers, Carson, and Herring -- all had nice games.  Nice to see Gethers and Roy playing well down the stretch in their senior seasons.

GB15 -- Yeah, we had fun with those things, and it seems like everyone is getting a kick out of them.  I presume you were going to see Obama because you're a fan -- tonight's gotta be a happy night.  It will probably be a happy month.

[gobombers15]

I have no problem with Burton shooting 27 times if he's going to score 37. The old adage is that you have to score at least one point for every FG attempted. He had almost 1.5 pts/FG attempt, that's exceptional. 

Re: Newman/Franklin, for a long time Franklin was playing much better than Newman. Franklin was the only player who did anything against Stevens the first time around. Franklin may be outta control sometimes, but I think he brings a lot more to the table than Newman (based on two seasons of seeing Newman), namely some added quickness to Fisher.

Well you did have a problem with Bostic not getting involved so what is it? If Burton is gonna shot like he did last night Bostic is not gonna get involved. It may be exceptional but it came in a game that Ithaca lost.

Now back to Franklin i disagree, Newman overall is a better smarter player. Franklin may be quicker but he doesn't use it to his advantage expecially on the defensive end. (reference McAdam)  I am no way a huge Newman fan because truth be known i think McKeever handles the point better but Newman overall has done a better job than Franklin.

There's enough shots to go around for the two of them. They were both 1st team all-conference players last year, so other players will have to show a little deference to them. Would I want Burton shooting 27 times per night? Probably not. But if he's going to do it, 37 points is a great output. My problem was that Ithaca didn't attack Beigel and Smalt, two players who seemingly step up off the bus and already have 3 fouls on them.

In happier news, we can probably sound the 21-gun salute for the '07-'08 Utica Pioneers' hopes for an E8 Tourney berth. RIT owns the tiebreaker against them and Utica has a fairly difficult schedule down the stretch. UC probably needs to run the table plus get some additional help to even have a chance, albeit a slim one.

[sjfcards]

I was a little suprised myself that IC did not use Bostic inside to force Beigle and Smalt to defend without fouling. Getting inside on Fisher and getting the two of them in foul trouble makes Fisher very one demensional (not their best dimension either). Burton had the hot hand, but IC could have won with 20 from him, if Franklin and Smalt did not have 39 between them.

So sad to see Utica basically put away. It looks like the E8 tournament is getting close to being settled. RIT can still slip in, but it would take some doing.

[FisherDynasty]

Newman is better than franklin without question. Don't get me wrong, he has been underachieving and quite disappointing this season.  At the end of last year he took it to ryan mcadam and just about every point guard leading up to the sweet 16.  He plays good D, hes poised, rebounds, and distrubutes the basketball.  Sometimes he doesnt try to score which can be frustrating watching.  Either way, I think he will come on strong similarly to last year at the right time.  When he scores he can be as important as any pg in the conference.  Ozell can be good and will be good but like what was said before needs to improve on his D, espeically his help D and decision making.  Hes only a freshman so his weaknesses are common. 

[FisherDynasty]

after reviewing some upcoming schedules, Ithaca is riding a tight rope.  They have Fisher, Naz, and Stevens left on their schedule.  If RIT gets a big win at Fisher and takes care of utica they could get in over ithaca to wrap up the 4 team tourny.  I personally think RIT is better lost some very close games.

[gobombers15]

after reviewing some upcoming schedules, Ithaca is riding a tight rope.  They have Fisher, Naz, and Stevens left on their schedule.  If RIT gets a big win at Fisher and takes care of utica they could get in over ithaca to wrap up the 4 team tourny.  I personally think RIT is better lost some very close games.

A lot of if's in that. Very speculative.

[FisherDynasty]

yes there is, thus, is why its just a statement to note.

[Cyclone0205]

I put this in the east region rankings, but I figured e8 might have better insight.  Supposing Stevens and Naz DON'T win the e8 tourney, is there any shot the e8 sends 3 teams to the tourney?  (assuming neither team struggles down the stretch and only loses 1 more game, maybe 2..including e8 tourney)

Stevens - Top 25 all year, 19-3 at the moment

Naz - Has been in the "others getting votes" a couple times, only 5 losses, mostly to tournament bound teams.


Is there any chance that both teams could grab a Pool C, or is it going to be one or the other?  And if so, does the 2 head to head wins by Stevens basically make them the Pool C lock out of the 2.

[gobombers15]

I put this in the east region rankings, but I figured e8 might have better insight.  Supposing Stevens and Naz DON'T win the e8 tourney, is there any shot the e8 sends 3 teams to the tourney?  (assuming neither team struggles down the stretch and only loses 1 more game, maybe 2..including e8 tourney)

Stevens - Top 25 all year, 19-3 at the moment

Naz - Has been in the "others getting votes" a couple times, only 5 losses, mostly to tournament bound teams.


Is there any chance that both teams could grab a Pool C, or is it going to be one or the other?  And if so, does the 2 head to head wins by Stevens basically make them the Pool C lock out of the 2.

Would be very surprised if the E8 had three teams in the NCAA Tourney. The conference doesn't have a great national rep, so that would hurt. I think Naz would be the odd team out if Fisher/Ithaca/RIT were to win the E8 Tournament. Assuming such a scenario, Naz would have at least six losses. Also, don't forget Naz has to play at Ithaca still, a place where they've historically been pretty awful. I think Stevens can lose two more games and still get an at-large. For Naz to get an at-large, I think they probably have to run the regular season table then make it to the E8 Tourney finals.

An interesting scenario would be if Stevens loses to Utica or Ithaca, gets bounced in the E8 Semis and Naz loses in the E8 Finals after winning the remainder of their regular season games. Even then, I think the committee would give the nod to Stevens by virtue of their two regular season escapes against Naz.