MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[hasanova]

hasanova...

With all due respect, I don't care what state Ben goes to college in.  I thought Atkinson should have been FOY last year.  And I chose Polambo as my Mid-Season COY.  Let's stay away from the "out of state" card, shall we?  There are two reasons why he did not make my first team.  The main one is that he averages 5.5 rebounds.  Not real good for a 6-10 kid when he has at least a 2-3 inch advantage over everyone else in the league.  Just over one block a game is not that impressive either, although I will admit he is bound to "change" a lot of shots.  The second reason is that he shoots 61% from the free throw line in over 100 attempts.  I know Kaase is at 55%, but he is at 60% in conference games only, and he has only attempted 67.  He was less than 50% in non-league games (48%) and he has worked on his shooting motion to get that up to 55% overall.  He is starting to gain confidence in his new stroke in the ODAC season, which is where I am looking at stats from.  He does lead the league in scoring.  And maybe there isn't anywhere in the league he would not start.  So?  At H-SC, or even BC, he would not be leading the league in scoring.  Kaase would still be the focal point.  Clay Michael would still be the focal point.  He does a great job putting the ball in the basket, but not such a great job rebounding.  How is that first team material?  How is it he is not even in the top 10 in rebounding and still make your first team?


xcoach...

I cannot speak directly for anyone else, but I know I do not feel obliagted to, in your words, "pick" on Scottie, because of Jim.  I feel obligated when Scottie himself tries to back out of comments, when he makes ones that make no sense, and when he tries to make me look like I do not know what I am talking about.  If you're going to get your panties in a bunch because someone "picks" on someone else, get a grip.  I'm not going to blame Jim for me "picking" on Scottie.  Anything I say is because I want to say it.  Although I must admit, Jim's recent posts have brought me much laughter and joy.


Scottie...

Not to "pick" on you, because I'd hate to get xcoach mad, but I do have a question for your Mid-Season picks.  You selected 15 players for 1st, 2nd, and Honorable Mention.  And I would think they are whom you consider to be the top 15 players in the league.  How can you put three guys from LC on that list?  It seems to me that if the Hornets had 3 of the top 15 guys in the league, they would not be at the bottom of it.  

Eagleslam -

I still say Ben Strong belongs on the first team.  I sincerely believe a guy who leads the league in scoring and is near the top in a few other categories (especially when he only plays 25-27 minutes a game) belongs on the First Team.  Scoring may be the most recognized stat in basketball and it is certainly in the top three.  Guilford is a team that plays a lot of players who may not have stellar individual stats, but spreads the ball around.

Yes, you did pick Palombo and Atkinson, so that is appreciated.

To me, there is a slight perceived bias on this board favoring the Virginia schools.  I'll take your word for it that you don't.  It's 9 to 1 in men's basketball, so maybe there is strength in numbers.   Sometimes, when I read this board, Guilford seems like an afterthought, which is too bad, because they have one of the the most storied basketball traditions over time of any school in the league.  The younger readers may not know that, but some of the more experienced posters certainly do.

Your tone is a bit too strong for my taste.  Not sure why you felt that was necessary.  It is well documented that the anonymity of the internet makes it much easier to be aggressive than when you speak to someone face-to-face or to someone you have met before.  Just relax.  By the way, I see your karma taking a hit, but I promise it was not me.  Peace.  

[mybleedinghands]

Scottie...

Not to "pick" on you, because I'd hate to get xcoach mad, but I do have a question for your Mid-Season picks.  You selected 15 players for 1st, 2nd, and Honorable Mention.  And I would think they are whom you consider to be the top 15 players in the league.  How can you put three guys from LC on that list?  It seems to me that if the Hornets had 3 of the top 15 guys in the league, they would not be at the bottom of it. 

I knew someone eventually would say soemthing about it, so I came prepared.  They may not be 3 of the 15 most talented players, some of the guys on the bench for a team like Macon may have players better than them. I can't even begin to speak adequately about the talents of every player, most especially the ones that dont get PT at the "big time" schools, but I think the three LC players have played fairly well in ODAC games, even though the standings don't reflect that. Will all three 3 receive any all-odac honors? I doubt it, but that's how I see things.

To start with Sweeney: He has been averaging nearly 18 points a game in conference games since the departure of Manos and has proven himself as one of the more deadly three point shooters in the conference. He has really stepped up his game since the departure of Manos, regardless of rather jeloesel thinks he provides a scoring threat for us or not. How many other players have done that well in terms of scoring? If he continues on this pace, then he should surely deserve recognition of at least honorable mention.

Now Pat Prior, if you take out his game where he was severely limited by an injury, he is averaging 12.9 points in conference games. Against Guilford he had 19 points, 8 boards, 3 assistsn, and one steal. Versus E&H he had 15 points, 10 boards, 4 assists, and 2 blocks. He had 15 poitns and 7 boards aginst VWC, 14 and 10 against EMU, 13 points agianst W&L, and 18 points against Roanoke. He's also one of the best FT shooters in the entire conference, having made 33 out of 40 FTs in conference games which is 82.5%.

Andy Albright: Quite possibly the best defensive guards int he conference. He's not one that 's going to necessarily fill up the stat sheet, but if we didnt have him I dont think we would have been competitive in any of our games. Extremely intelligent player who could most likely play for any other team in the ODAC and probably start for most of them. Also is one of the ebst ball handlers in the league and is also generally "money" against the press and any pressure defense.

[eagleslam]

JWW...

It's okay by me to be loyal.  But I think it is even better to face reality.  If your comment "some people don't put much in it" was addressed to me, I'd sure like to know where it came from and what caused you to have that opinion of me.  Although I do agree some people don't put a lot in it, I would like to know if you were inferring I didn't, or if it was just a comment.


hassanova...

You are more than entitled to your opinion.  Just because I disagree with it does not mean you are wrong.  I am curious as to the other two most recognizable stats in basketball, in your opinion.  I would say points, rebounds, and assists.  Those are the ones that get people a triple double.  Sometimes steals or blocks will, but for the most part, it's points-rebounds-assists.  In this case, it is tough to look at assists.  These guys are forwards, and do not handle the ball nearly as much and are not in situations to get a lot of assists.

I appreciate you taking my word that I do not have a bias towards state schools.  Frankly, I have no reason to.  If you say there is a bias, there is a bias.  I am not saying that to be rude.  It's just a fact.  If you think it's present, it is.  Doesn't matter if no one else thinks it.  I know GC has a strong tradition, but, I do not think it is entirely a D3 tradition.  I think it is fair to point that out as well.  If I'm wrong about that, please let me know.

As for my tone being too strong, I don't know what to say.  I state my opinions and reasons why I feel that particular way.  I can honestly say that if my tone is too strong, it is because I am trying to get my point across.  Make you, or someone else agree, no.  That's not going to happen 99% of the time.  Nor would I change my mind 99% of the time.  Simply stating how I feel.  As far as being "aggressive" with people on the board, you make it seem like I only say what I do, or how I say it, because of the comfort of hundereds of miles and the fact I have only met a small handful of the posters.  You make it seem like I'd be scared to state my opinion if I were face to face with other posters.  Believe me, nothing is farther from the truth.  I feel confident and comfortable discussing ODAC Basketball here, on the phone, or in person.  You make it seem like I'm gonna try and fight someone if they disagree with me in person.    As for my karma taking a hit, I really don't care. My guess is you don't care about yours, and you probably know I don't care about mine.  Is my library card going to be taken away if it gets too low?  The bottom line is that I am going to state my opinion and back it up the best way I can.  If my tone and/or what I say is too strong for you or too aggressive for you, I really do feel sorry for you.  If you take this so personally, what's going to happen when you have to face real problems?

[steelyglen]

Aspromised here are the results of the "Guru All-21st Century ODAC Team",since we're naming "teams" at this point.

1st Team:

Jared Mills -  RMC  -  14.90%
Kyle Williford -BC  -  14.55%
Justin Call - E&H  -   13.82%
TJ Grimes  -  HSC  -  13.82%
Jeff Monroe - HSC -  11.64%

2nd Team:

Ron Yusasz - VWC -  10.91%
Brandon Randall-HSC- 4.73%
Kurt Bergmann -RMC - 4.36%
Ricky Easterling -BC -  3.64%
Robby Pridgen - RC -   3.27%

Honorable Mention:

Jason Strickland - RC-  1.82%
Brad Dunleavy - RC -    1.09%
David Doino - VWC -       .73%
Dennis Brown - LC-        .36%
Chris Fox - HSC -            .36%

Thanks to those participating in the poll. I think I'd take that team into battle against A LOT of teams..D-1/2/3...

[mybleedinghands]

was i the only one that voted for dennis brown?

[eagleslam]

Scottie...

Before I say anything else, let me say one thing.  Your response to my post was, by far, the best post I've ever seen you make.

I still think that if LC had 3 of the top 15 players who got "PT", they would not be at the bottom of the league.  But, you stated how you see things very well.


Matt Sweeney:  He has played well since Manos left.  But teams recognize that now.  We'll have to see how he does when opponents focus on him.  

Pat Prior:  Unfortunatley, you can't take out the game were he was severely limited due to injury.  The exception is if he were injured early during the game, not play despite being injured.  If he was well enough to play, he should have been well enough to produce.  If he was well enough to come back in, he should have been well enough to produce, unless it was just to see how he felt.  Regardless, he has put him some nice numbers against good teams.  Like Sweeney, that draws attention to himself, though.

Andy Albright:  Honestly, I agree with you on this.  He does what needs to be done.  And I also agree that LC would not be compeititve without him.

Seriously, the best post you've ever had.  I don't agree with you 100%, but I at least know where you're coming from.  

[xcoach]

Eagleslam-
Since you misinterpreted my post of this morning,others may have as well...so let me clear the air. What I wrote was in response to the comments by TigerJoe (or whatever) who was a bit nasty to Jim. I attempted a "tongue in cheek" response using yesterday's LC - Roanoke game and threw in Scottie as the usual "sacrificial lamb". I feel confident that most people understood what I was saying but evidently I didn't get my tongue far enough in cheek for you.
I assure you, my panties are not in a bunch...at my age, I often forget to put them on. But I assure you, I never forget how to get a grip.

[hasanova]

Eagleslam,

Most of your post seemed conversationally friendly, so that's how I will frame my response.  By the way, hasanova only has one "s" and is in honor of the '68 Chevy I bought as a teenager and still own.  It was hard-earned and deserved to be kept!  

Yes, I am entitled to my opinion as are you.  I respect your right and ability to present your substantive arguments with facts and authority.  To paraphrase Voltaire, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say them."  

Now, from a basketball standpoint, I sincerely believe at least 90 percent of voters for a conference First Team (any conference) would be hard pressed to omit the leading scorer in the league.  The top five stats in basketball, to me, in order, are Scoring, Rebounds, Assists, Steals and Blocked Shots.  I have seen all five used in some combination for a double-double or triple-double.  I suppose, then, it is possible to get a quintuple double.  lol  I do, however, respect your right to disagree with me on Ben Strong.

Yes, I would agree with your statement that most of Guilford's success was in the NAIA (including a national championship and many NBA players).  They are just now learning how to recruit and compete in DIII.  The ODAC is primarily a Virginia conference, so it just makes Guilford work harder to succeed.

Perhaps you don't do it, but I stand by my statement that it has been psychologically and scientifically proven that people are more aggressive with anonymity than they are with someone who has a face and a personality.  If you are the same under all circumstances, then kudos to you.  I wish I was more like that sometimes myself.

Please, however, with all due respect, refrain from homiletics to me about facing adversity and real problems.  Perhaps it is my successful ability to handle problems and overcome adversity that shapes my demeanor on this board and my overall considerable success in life.  I grew up on a farm in the Virginia mountains in a house with no electricity until I was ten and no running water until I was out of college.  I slept on the floor until I was around 12 and kept my clothes in a  wooden apple crate.  When you graduate with high honors from high school, work your way through a selective college and a nationally-respected graduate school, lose a job or two due to corporate mergers and outsourcing, have been power of attorney/executor for your best friend who dies of cancer, raise two college-educated sons on your own and bury a daughter, you honestly learn how to cope fairly well.  For your sake, I hope and pray you never have these "real" problems, but I'm sure you would handle them with grace and steely resolve.  I did.

Basketball is just a game ....      

[eagleslam]

hasanova...

My apologies on the incorrect spelling.  I do always try to spell "names" the way they are presented, because it usually has great meaning for the poster in someway.  And, yours is a great example of such.

I, along with you, respect your right to state your opinions, and substantiate them.

As far as stats, I agree with you on the last three.  I think assists, steals, and blocks are important.  Overrated sometimes, but important.  If the guy guarding me steals it from me 6 times, but I still drop 35 points and shot the ball well, did he play good defense?  I don't think so.  But, he had a lot of steals.  If I have 15 assists, but have 8 turnovers trying to force some passes, I wouldn't say I took care of the ball.  That's not the point of the discussion, I know, but I wanted to mention it anyway.  But it shows my point.  And you may have already gotten it, I don't know.  But I think you have to look at the WHOLE body of work.  How does the player perform his role?  I just don't think someone who leads the league in scoring, but is not in the top ten in rebounding, is 1st team material.  If it were a guard, it'd be a different story.  I'd look at steals or assists.  It depends on who the player is and what he is expected to do.  In this case, 6 rebounds a game puts him in the top 10. And at 6-10, he does not have that now.  He may have to average 8 or 9 for me to consider him first team material because, at 6-10, that has to be his role.  Plus, although he does alter shots, not even getting 2 blocks a game doesn't make him look that much better.  Now, I have not seen him play this year.  Once I do, I make look at him and think he should be 1st Team.

And it does not surprise me that it has been scientifically proven that people are less aggressive when face-to-face with someone.  I state my opinion here the same way I would if I knew you (or others I have not met).  I'd state my opinion face-to-face with you (or anyone else) the same way I would if I knew you.  The term "aggressive", to me, means I'm yelling, bickering, and acting hysterical.  Basically, violence is not far away.  That may not be how you mean it, or how you mean it in this situation.  As for being the same on here and in person, I am.  Whether or not I get you to agree with me is unimportant.  It's that you can at least say you see where I am coming from.  If you can't do that, you'd really be saying I have no right to my opinion.  I feel sorry for, not angry with, people who go through life like that.  How they get any friends I'll never know!  And there is no reason to take someone like that seriously, so why be "aggressive"?

As for your tremendous difficulties in life, I appreciate you sharing them.  You, of course, didn't have to do that, but I am glad you felt comfortable enough to do so.  All I will say concerning the matter is, trust me, I know basketball, and this board, is just a game.   

[DenbowsRoomie]

you mean to tell me this board isn't the beginning and end of all life?  GASP!!!

[yj424]

"Gentlemen, let's no forget that we are gentlemen."

[baselinejam]

I refer all the combatants to my Deano quote below.

[narch]

homiletics

the art of preaching, in case anyone wondered...had to look it up myself - i love that i can get my word of the day from hasanova on the odac board

'nova - i have been following jordan's gc career pretty closely - i wonder if he would contribute much to the monarch, though, since the strength of this team is perimeter play - i think the presence of seth thomas may have been part of the reason jordan transferred to gc, but that is PURE speculation

[hasanova]

homiletics

the art of preaching, in case anyone wondered...had to look it up myself - i love that i can get my word of the day from hasanova on the odac board

'nova - i have been following jordan's gc career pretty closely - i wonder if he would contribute much to the monarch, though, since the strength of this team is perimeter play - i think the presence of seth thomas may have been part of the reason jordan transferred to gc, but that is PURE speculation

narch - Snipes has been up and down at Guilford, but I think part of that is the team's style of play and Palombo's coaching philosophy.  I've seen Snipes have zero points and help the team win and I know his best game was the famous 34 he put up in the miracle OT finish at RMC last year.  By the way, you probably already know this, but Jordan's younger brother Justin is also a Quaker this season.  I suspect you're right about his role with the Monarchs versus the Quakers.  Smart players can often see how they're going to fit in.  Hopefully, they can make a change in time to salvage a career before they languish on the bench or have a diminished role.  My nephew did the same thing when he transferred from Newberry.

Good to know I am your "word-of-the-day" source on the ODAC board.  I'll be on my toes.    Let's see, what word can I give Narch tomorrow?  lol

[Llamaguy]

homiletics

the art of preaching, in case anyone wondered...had to look it up myself - i love that i can get my word of the day from hasanova on the odac board

Darn, guess that says something for my edumacation! I assumed that "homiletics" refered to a very ugly verision of a vector that can spread Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever.