MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[3sdown]

Last note I promise...While I may have "overstated" my case using humor, etc., I do so in a rhetorical manner in order to emphasize my argument.  However, my argument logically is strong in my opinion.   

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Average home attendance this season...

Randolph-Macon	833
2005 ODAC Tourney	764
Hampden-Sydney	725
Emory & Henry	645
Virginia Wesleyan	565
Eastern Mennonite	563
Roanoke	432
Bridgewater	377
Guilford	377
Lynchburg	305
Washington & Lee	204

All of sudden, 764 fans is looking pretty good.  And I'm not sure why you're so anti-elderly fans.  Most of Bridgewater's 377 a game are older folks.  They cheer just as much as students, just not as obscene, and I have just as good a time at a Bridgewater game with 377 "older folks" than I do when I attend a game with mostly students.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

[...] but it doesn't even the playing field b/c the tournament is right in the backyard of one particular team.  And I have been in Salem when this "advantage" is fully evident [...]

Roanoke having 2,050 fans at their first round game last year was a clear advantage.  They lost.

[algernon]

Great writing, 3sdown.  Good humor.  I especially liked the comment about "I must seek out a powdered whig, a cane, and a seat cushion so that I will fit in down at Salem."

I think I prefer the tournament in Salem, for a number of reasons, among them the fact that our family has had so many enjoyable February weekends in Salem over the past 10 years and, consequently, it just feels good to arrive at the Civic Center every time we go back.  I also like the opportunity to see other teams play each other, without the tension of caring a whole lot about who wins, to have sufficient seating that I don't have to worry about getting a seat, and to have conversations with people from other ODAC schools.  It's a great festival experience.

Having said that, you make a great point about "764 individuals" at the tournament games.  Is that really all there are?  If so, there's no doubt that that's way below the number who would be present for an ODAC tournament game at almost any ODAC school.  There are currently five teams that are averaging over 600 a game for regular season conference games -- and that includes the home games where it is between semesters and almost all of the students are home for break.  Here are the top five home game attendance figures (conference games only):

• 1) Randolph-Macon       881
• 2) Hampden-Sydney     781
• 3) Emory & Henry         688
• 4) Eastern Mennonite    652
• 5) Virginia Wesleyan      644

I think that there'd be 1200 - 2000 in the gym (depending on its size) for a big tournament game in February (when classes are in session) at almost any ODAC college.

[hasanova]

Average home attendance this season...

Randolph-Macon	833
2005 ODAC Tourney	764
Hampden-Sydney	725
Emory & Henry	645
Virginia Wesleyan	565
Eastern Mennonite	563
Roanoke	432
Bridgewater	377
Guilford	377
Lynchburg	305
Washington & Lee	204

All of sudden, 764 fans is looking pretty good.  And I'm not sure why you're so anti-elderly fans.  Most of Bridgewater's 377 a game are older folks.  They cheer just as much as students, just not as obscene, and I have just as good a time at a Bridgewater game with 377 "older folks" than I do when I attend a game with mostly students.

Another good thing about the elderly folks, especially alumni, is they're looking around to see where the college could use some donations - and everyone benefits from that.  lol   

[algernon]

Top Five 2005-06 Conference Games in Attendance:

2/11     HSC at RMC          1,300
2/4       RMC at VWC         1,285
2/4       W&L at HSC          1,204
1/11     RMC at HSC          1,111 (with no students on campus)
1/21     Roanoke at RMC     1,100

[jdubyadubya]

Hey c'mon. I loved tournament time from the delicious Friday night banquet, the annual welcome from Brad Bankston, the great slide show of ALL the campuses and basketball programs, the awards, the games, Rowdy the Rotarian, Jim Loesel, Mac & Bob's, the Clarion, Denis McCarthy....the list goes on and on.

[hasanova]

Personally, for atmosphere, I'd rather attend a game with 600 people in a 1000 seat gym than 764 people in a 5000 seat arena.  Salem is too cavernous unless the ODAC tournament can begin to draw a few thousand fans.  Geographically, I understand the appeal of Salem - it's probably the closest thing to the center of the most ODAC schools.  I would like to point out, however, that other ODAC sports (such as soccer) allow the higher seed to host the games, so, in that regard, there is a precedent.

[steelyglen]

3sdown...are people really tired of hearing me "rant" about ODAC scheduling? What a shock and I don't care... . And what is this crap about  "natural aging process"...does that mean that I should stop having opinions? Sorry didn't get the memo  

"kid"...for what its worth...at the Guilford game 10 days ago, an elderly BC fan came up to Mrs. Steelyglen and myself at halftime and after exchanging pleasantries, proceeded to tell us how much she and numerous other BC fans missed us at the games. "The crowd just sits on their hands..." she went onto say, "...there isn't much enthusiasm, just not as much fun as when you guys were here..." and from what I saw she was right! There was more hype surrounding the halftime "shoot free throws for trinkets" that for most of the game!

3sdown... could not agree more with your annual "rant" on the venue for the ODAC tournament. If Algernon's number are correct (and he's right more than he's wrong) then it doesn't say much for the current ODAC tournament venue and its drawing power. I would personally rather see a different neutral site but playing at upper seeds for all but the championship game would be a viable option.

Jim with a little more time and if it really mattered I would sit down and take the opposition side of most of your points. 3sdown's "rant" was NOT a bad idea at all. I will say one thing... calling the ODAC Dinner on Friday Night before the tournament a "premier" event is stretching it just a bit. Below average food, and a long night with the exception of the ODAC "highlight" reel which is 10 minutes of good entertainment. I've been to 4 of these and had a vested interest in all four so i think my opinion is objective. The players, for the most part are not into it, and two teams must make the drive with nothing else to do! It's a nice evening but "premier"?

And lastly, if the ODAC "champion" is determined by the tournament winner...shouldn't all ODAC teams have a chance to win the "championship"? All 10 teams should play in the tournament!

[78rmc]

I think one thing being overlooked in this Salem vs. campus discussion is the time and effort needed to conduct such an event.  I think the ODAC is lucky to have the Salem Rotary.  I've done large volunteer events and it's hard work.  

I'm not sure some or most schools want the event, given the cost and effort.  The reason I say that, is that the people (Presidents and ADs) making the decision to leave the event in Salem could move it to campus if they wanted to. 

[tigerfanalso]

Oldfish

I think final rankings/post season play has alot to do with recruiting, which is the reason the same teams in the ODAC seemingly bring in the best recruiting classes year after year. VWC and RMC have that advantage now, Tony Shaver had that working for him for years. The better D3 prospects want to play at the schools  that have an opportunity to play for a national championship. It's pretty much that simple. The same reason Duke and UNC always have the better recruiting classes in the ACC, the same reason Tony Shaver had more talent tham most other schools in the ODAC , the same reason Mike Rhoades and Coach Macedo now recruit better than other ODAC schools. Kids want to play for a winner and they want a chance at the national spotlight. So rankings/post season play do matter and matters alot.

[steelyglen]

[...] but it doesn't even the playing field b/c the tournament is right in the backyard of one particular team.  And I have been in Salem when this "advantage" is fully evident [...]

Roanoke having 2,050 fans at their first round game last year was a clear advantage.  They lost.

Maybe last year, but I have witnessed first hand the Roanoke advantage at this venue in this tournament!

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

Top Five 2005-06 Conference Games in Attendance:

2/11     HSC at RMC          1,300
2/4       RMC at VWC         1,285
2/4       W&L at HSC          1,204
1/11     RMC at HSC          1,111 (with no students on campus)
1/21     Roanoke at RMC     1,100

Those are five games out of 90 regular season ODAC games.  That's 5.6% of the games.

On the other hand, of the seven ODAC tournament games last season, two had more than 1,000 fans in attendance.  That's 28.6%.

It's clear the ODAC tournament is well attended.

[steelyglen]

I think one thing being overlooked in this Salem vs. campus discussion is the time and effort needed to conduct such an event.  I think the ODAC is lucky to have the Salem Rotary.  I've done large volunteer events and it's hard work.  I'm not sure some or most schools want the event, given the cost and effort.

I don't think putting together a single game or even back to back games is that big of a deal. Most schools host their own tournaments or doubleheaders each year anyway. Don't get me wrong a lot of work is involved but worth it!

The biggest issue as I see it would be the potential travel involved. Guilford travels to E&H for a quarterfinal game then to Wesleyan for a semifinal game then to EMU for a finals..THAT my friend is brutal!

[cnufan]

The USA South's quarters are hosted at the higher seed this year. This is the first time this has happened. In the past, the tourny used to start Thursday and run thru Saturday afternoon. The venue rotated from school to school and each school hosted every seven years (for the men). This year, the coaches decided to go to a quarterfinal game on Tuesday at the higher seed and the remaining teams meet for the final four and semis at one place. This year, CNU is hosting both the men's and women's final four. Apparently the offer to the conference was too sweet to pass up. Who knows whats going to happen next year, but I do know they are going to the Quarterfinal game on Tuesday and the semis and champs Friday and Saturday.