MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[bumblebeetuna]

btw, where were all the rmwc students tonight? other than the band, there might have been 3 or 4 there. pathetic really

[CT]

First, since apparently typing posts completely grammatically correct is a sign of one's intelligence and 800 of them is something to be proud of, I shall address Mr. Coleman in a manner that would do hasanova proud.

No one has said HSC didn't have a shot to win in regulation.  What is being said, and what is still not being addressed by anyone else, is that HSC should not have been in the position to need a last-minute shot to win this game.  HSC had the inferior team this year.  But they played the better game today and played well enough to win if the officials had called even a slightly better game.  As for coming out of the woodwork, forgive me for not feeling the need or desire to worship at the shrine that is D3sports.com sooner.  I'm sorry I needed something like the worst officiated game I've seen either in person or on TV to feel the need to throw my 2 cents into the fray.

[bumblebeetuna]

i love it when people say that the refs do not have an impact of the game. that is such an ignorant statement. so, if you're a good team you should be able to overcome bad calls? so, if i go out there and just blow the whistle arbitrarily and call fouls and arbitrary actions, then it has no bearing on the game? that is ridiculous. a team shouldn't have to overcome another team and the refs. last time i checked, that isn't basketball. no game is going to be called perfectly, but for the refs to blow it like they did tonight cost 14 student-athletes a chance to compete for a championship. the 2 points that were taken away would have made a difference. that took points off the board for hsc and gave rmc the ball. why should a team have to overcome that? it was one of the best shots i have ever seen. and when guill goes into the paint and he is clearly hacked (i had a perfect view) but the official 40 feet away calls a walk (then instead of hsc shooting free throws, rmc drills a 3). so why should a team have to overcome that? the refs were so bad that when edwards was going up to the basket and got drilled, went to the floor, no whistle was blown by the ref under the basket (his call to make). instead, an outside official had to make the call because apparently getting hit on the head/arms is not enough to warrant a whistle when rmc is trying to complete a comeback. and then, the refs tried to be part of the show. they started making calls and waiting to get a huge reaction out of the crowd. i really don't know how you can dispute the fact that hsc got jobbed by the refs and lost their chance to win the odac. i know hsc had their chances, but if it weren't for the refs it would have never come down to this. the odac has to hold these refs accountable. the officiating is horrendous and has been for a while.

[Pat Coleman]

There's been a lot of complaining on this board the past seven years about ODAC officiating, but no more than anywhere else in Division III, generally. That's the state of the game all over. The good officials take the D-I paydays.

[bumblebeetuna]

they don't go to the acc, because that is about as bad. i have seen a lot of high school games called much more consistently than 75% of the ODAC games. and my high school team didn't win nearly as much as HSC. i would like for some people to go tell hsc's team that, "sorry, the officiating was bad, but you should have still won. it really didn't affect the outcome of the game." that would be nice to see.

[CT]

Yes, the officiating has been bad, but it's been bad all year and we didn't get on here and say anything before.  Today's officiating was horrendous and that's why we're "coming out of the woodwork."  Shouldn't the best officials be at the championship?  I know plenty who did games this year better than these guys.  They're not good, but they're better than these guys today.  And if you are going to post about it, could you possibly bother yourself to post about the specifics being discussed rather than throwing out generalized, hackneyed cliches?  Or are we asking too much since we did just come out of the woodwork?

[mybleedinghands]

while many were discussing today's RMC/HSC game, hasanova decided that he'd just end it when he's not part of either side and i doubt he was at the game, i haven't commented on the Guilford/VWC game, and i don't know nor care how the officiating or play was then and for someone coming from a school with less basketball success and tradition to talk about "let's just congratulate the winners" is a bit weak, congratulate them all you want and that is fine but don't say that's what everyone should do yet, i'll admit RMC had the better team this year, but today i believe HSC outplayed them and teh officials were horrendous in their calls and judgment and that hurt the team

as for Mr. Coleman,  i'm curious what the stereotype is here, i didn't say guilford was a bunch of losers, their golf team won the national title last year i believe and they're great there, but in basketball they're not that good and so it's not a stereotype to say they come up short, they do, where does the whole meathead/fitness center play into this? should i throw in a stereotype about asians or something now to continue the random stereotype comment with no bearing on anything?

Maybe if you would discuss the real issues as to why HSC lost the game you wouldn't be so bitter. Why don't you discuss why they blew that lead they had for a good deal of the 2nd half? With under 5 minutes to go HSC was up 9. Where was the defense down the stretch? Too many uncontested shots during RMC's comebacl. Why don't you discuss how HSC couldnt close out the game. If they could have done what it takes to close out the game then you HSC fans would have to be whining about the officiating. Also, HSC could have done a better job of not letting Hawley catch the ball so close to the hoop. He's too good of a player to let him catch it five feet from the basket every time. Maybe you should tell the Tigers they need to protect the ball better. You arne't going to win many games when you have 10 more turnovers than your opponent. Macon outscored the Tigers 18-5 in points off turnovers. Maybe if they had controlled the ball better they could have reduced this total. Maybe if they had taken more intelligent shots in the OT they could have won the game too. No need tow hine about the fouling either, HSC has 21 fouls and RMC had 19. Besides, the fouls aren't supposed to be even unless the teams are actually committing an equal number of fouls. Maybne if the Tigers ahd made their FTs and layups in OT theyw ould ahve put themselves in better position to win the game.

[3sdown]

rmc fans are delusion. CT is correct in about everything he has said concerning the game. The officials had a direct bearing on the game.

1. Jump ball called when a pass was blocked went to the floor, and the
hsc player picked it back up. It was not even close to a jump ball.

2. Back court violation called when a pass hit the macon player on the
leg and bounces to the back court.

3. Shot clock violation called when a player (Edwards) shot it with 1 second on
the shot clock (he shot it from behind the basket falling out of
bounds, over the backboard and it went in)

4. Travelling violation called when a player (guill) goes up for a lay-up and
gets hacked on the arms while shooting (never came close to walking)

5. Defensive foul called on (jyuri) the baseline when the center hooked (#33) the
player and the defender never made contact.

6. Illegal touching of the ball (person coming from out of bounds
touched the ball first) after he was pulled out of bounds by the macon
player.

Give me 6 calls that macon got that changed the outcome like these did. I am not even bringing up the holding and hand checking on defense that the refs let go. If macon had those calls against them, the macon fans would be bitching just as much. It is hard to win when hsc is playing against 8 players.

CRY, CRY, CRY....Let me here some more crying...CRY, CRY, CRY all the way to Farmville...

CT and Bubblebeetuna-

Officials have an affect on the game...BUT they don't DETERMINE the game!  I have said that the officiating wasn't particularly good, but it wasn't good for either team.  For some reason you forget that in the 1st Half the fouls were 11 against RMC and 5 against HSC.  Seems to me that RMC overcame that in the 1st Half and took a lead into half time.      

As for your bad calls...

1.  Legitimate complaint, but I am not sure that HSC would have ended up with the ball b/c it looked as if the Macon player stoped playing when he heard the whistle, but a questionable call.

2.  Correct call.  The ball last hit Prehmus's leg and then went backcourt.  (It is a stupid rule and should be changed, but the correct call was made.)

3.  If it was a shot clock violation it was a bad call...

4.  This particular call...Not sure about.  One official had a foul and the other official had the travel.  Personally I thought the foul occurred first, but I believe there was a walk...Just depends on which to call first.  

5.  Can't even believe you are complaining about this.  The Post Play was rough all night long...All players got away with a ton of fouls.  Matter of fact, almost everytime a RMC fronted Kaase and HSC threw over the top Kaase pushed off...Should it have been called?  Probably not b/c it is the Semi-finals of the ODAC game.  You are complaining about one "hook"...Wansley got the crap beat out of him the entire game down low...

6.  Don't know what you are talking about here...I guess I need to put on those glasses from Farmville?

Particularly on 1, 3, and 4...Additionally you can add the block call on Prehmus.  So 4 calls that were bad...

Macon's call that were bad:

1.  Let's start with illegal screens...Macon got called on several...But not one on HSC.  Particularly in the 2nd half Carlson got entangled in an illegal screen...Foul on Carlson.  

2.  This call lead to the TECHNICAL Foul (that is 2 shots and the ball).  Both free throws were made, but HSC didn't convert on the possession.  The Technical Fouls wasn't warranted in my opinion.

3.  The mugging of Wansley when he drove with his right hand from the left wing.  Then he regathered and went up for a shot from the free throw line for the game winner...Clearly, at any other point of the game it would have most likely been a foul.  

4.  Also, in the 2nd half there was a clear hold on the baseline when Wansley was chasing after the ball.  Wansley he cool and collected player who NEVERS says anything to the officials even turned around and said something to one of them...But it was obvious he was held and RMC lost possession of the ball.  

5.  RMC had the ball, someone shot it, and Wansley was afer the rebound.  But, a HSC player absolutely straight up pushed Wansley in the chest underneath the basket...No call.  

And the list could go on and on and on....Each of you come on here and bitch and bitch and bitch...But officiating is part of the game and it will always be part of the game.  You should learn to live with it...But I am sure that you are one of those fans that go to games and from when the horn sounds you are hollering "3" seconds, even though the ball hasn't even crossed into the frontcourt.  Or when the ball is being shot underneath the basket and rebounded a couple of times...Holllering "3" seconds...Not realizing that there isn't three seconds when the ball is shot b/c the recount doesn't start again until someone has possession.  But, explaining things to you like this is a waste of my time...

You just want to blame the loss on someone else without being able to admit that much of the blame lies with your own team.  HSC players played a great game and have much to be proud of...Coach Smith did a great job with them this year and they should improve particularly if they get a mid-range creator.  Officiating is an easy excuse...BUT if you can do it much better why don't you get into officiating?  If you saw everything correct today and made all the right calls why don't you join your local officials association and give it try...See if you can make it to the College Level?  

Probably not b/c you don't even know what the rules are (for example, the backcourt), and you probably are too chicken **** and would rather sit and fuss in the stands without knowing what it is like to be an official...Shut your trap, go back to your rock, and get a life.  

[3sdown]

Scottie-

That was one of your best posts all year long...You are coming around.  You are beginning to show times of brillance...

[hasanova]

i am just curious, and not flaming at all. was guilford in the NAIA and in the same conference as carson-newman, etc?

Yes, it was the NAIA.  We were in the Carolinas Conference and District 26 with schools such as Elon, High Point University, Catawba, Lenoir-Rhyne, etc. 

[hasanova]

instead you shall resort to arrogance and a "holier than thou" attitude of which you have not backed up which leads to the conundrum, what's the difference between an arrogant ass and a jackass?

I had no issue with you.  I am sure you are a very smart young man or you wouldn't be a student at a fine college such as Hampden-Sydney.  You started this, however, when you threw out the quip about "Guilford being accustomed to offering congratulations to the winner."  That was undeserved.  A little avuncular advice for you - it takes more than winning basketball games to be successful.  What's done is done, so let it go.  I'm sure in time you will realize HSC had a fine season and life isn't always fair.  If I offended you and was somewhat condescending, I apologize.  At the time, I thought you had it coming, but, yes, in hindsight, I should have turned the other cheek and simply walked away.  Sometimes, however, that just gets really old.  Peace.

[bumblebeetuna]

FWIW i didn't "holler 3 seconds" one time yesterday and never do. you are obviously delusional and nothing will change that.

[bumblebeetuna]

also, on the backcourt violation, it looked like the macon player touched the ball last before it went over the line, and if that is the case, then it is not a backcourt violation.

[bumblebeetuna]

while many were discussing today's RMC/HSC game, hasanova decided that he'd just end it when he's not part of either side and i doubt he was at the game, i haven't commented on the Guilford/VWC game, and i don't know nor care how the officiating or play was then and for someone coming from a school with less basketball success and tradition to talk about "let's just congratulate the winners" is a bit weak, congratulate them all you want and that is fine but don't say that's what everyone should do yet, i'll admit RMC had the better team this year, but today i believe HSC outplayed them and teh officials were horrendous in their calls and judgment and that hurt the team

as for Mr. Coleman,  i'm curious what the stereotype is here, i didn't say guilford was a bunch of losers, their golf team won the national title last year i believe and they're great there, but in basketball they're not that good and so it's not a stereotype to say they come up short, they do, where does the whole meathead/fitness center play into this? should i throw in a stereotype about asians or something now to continue the random stereotype comment with no bearing on anything?

Maybe if you would discuss the real issues as to why HSC lost the game you wouldn't be so bitter. Why don't you discuss why they blew that lead they had for a good deal of the 2nd half? With under 5 minutes to go HSC was up 9. Where was the defense down the stretch? Too many uncontested shots during RMC's comebacl. Why don't you discuss how HSC couldnt close out the game. If they could have done what it takes to close out the game then you HSC fans would have to be whining about the officiating. Also, HSC could have done a better job of not letting Hawley catch the ball so close to the hoop. He's too good of a player to let him catch it five feet from the basket every time. Maybe you should tell the Tigers they need to protect the ball better. You arne't going to win many games when you have 10 more turnovers than your opponent. Macon outscored the Tigers 18-5 in points off turnovers. Maybe if they had controlled the ball better they could have reduced this total. Maybe if they had taken more intelligent shots in the OT they could have won the game too. No need tow hine about the fouling either, HSC has 21 fouls and RMC had 19. Besides, the fouls aren't supposed to be even unless the teams are actually committing an equal number of fouls. Maybne if the Tigers ahd made their FTs and layups in OT theyw ould ahve put themselves in better position to win the game.

its hard to be physical defense when you are in double bonus for 17  minutes. and it makes it a lot easier for a team make a comeback when they are shooting 2 free throws on fouls 80 feet away from the basket. you are right about some of the shot selection, that had me shaking my head as well. but it wouldn't even had mattered if it were a slightly better officiated game. macon plays physical defense and if the officials wanted to, could whistle them everytime down the court. but they don't and it usually results in more turnovers. that is just what happens when you play macon. you can see the opponent's jerseys being held as they are coming around screens and the refs rarely call it on macon. so yes, macon was committing about the same # of fouls as hsc in the second half, but the refs decided to swallow their whistles.

[jdubyadubya]

One of the funniest moments of ODAC championship basketball was during the 2nd half of the VWC/EMU game when Jerry Stone called a timeout on himself because his whistle broke! It was hilarious. The other refs had to help him fix it. too. Chants from the fans that perhaps he ought to consider retirement were greeted by a smile from the foul caller himself.