MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[captainobvious]

I would like to provide some insight into the situation with the maroons this year.  I am good friends with a bunch of guys on the team and unfortunately, the scenario has gotten worse and worse in my two and a half years here at the college.  When I arrived at this campus, all I heard from the players was great things about Page Moir, but that sentiment has shifted dramatically.  It is no secret that virtually every time Roanoke hits the floor, they have superior talent compared to their opposition.  There is no excuse for them finishing outide the top four in the ODAC, but each of the last few years they have finished 5-8.  This combined with a plethora of questionable coaching decisions has led to the team losing all faith and confidence in Moir.  This culminated last year with a two hour team meeting right before exams with players voicing their displeasure with Page and from what I heard, it was extremely intense and emotional for everyone.  That supposedly was supposed to calm everyones nerves but it really had no effect.  It got much worse this year when Curtis and Mike were not welcomed back to the team, two players that are respected by their teammates, but Mike Zurek was a huge surprise.  He was considered the vocal and emotional leader of the team before departing, and has left a whole not only at the center position, but also more importantly in the locker room.  The decision was not taken well by the players and has not been taken well by others on campus.  In talking with some of the guys on the team, I would not be surprised if a couple others left the team midseason.  In clarifying a previous post, clint zimmerman chose to play baseball instead this year and chad mccomas transferred to marshall for reasons not related to basketball.  I will provide further inside information on the maroons as the season goes on, and I would publicly like to wish mike and curtis the best of luck.  They are both class acts and have their best years ahead of them.

[jeloesel]

The departed Maroons are indeed nice guys and have many friends.  However, they didn't display outstanding basketball skills on the court.  I am optimistic that the improved talent recruited last year and this year will lead to better results in the play and chemistry of the team.

[steelyglen]

captainobvious...not flaming here but a question about this statement..."In talking with some of the guys on the team, I would not be surprised if a couple others left the team midseason." If the displeasure is genuine why would these unknown players wait until midseason to jump ship?  Would the intent be to disrupt this team in case things are going well? Or to wait and see how much PT they are getting? Just curious...if things are that bad with these particualr players why waste their time going through drills and workouts only to leave when the fun is peaking?

[mybleedinghands]

if they were really that unhappy from last year and about the players who were let go this year, then why would they still be on the team now?? if i was that dissatisfied i don't think i'd be able to nor would i want to stay on the team!

[xcoach]

Without commenting on any specific programs and acknowledging that I don't know the kids involved in the current situation under discussion...the problems that several coaches in the ODAC have had to deal with over the past couple of years are problems that have been apparent in scholarship programs for years and are working their way down to the D3 level.
Simply put, coaches are having to deal with a more 'insubordinate' player (generally backed by the parent)...one who believes that he knows more than the coach about who should be playing, when, and how much...one who believes he knows more than the coach about what offense to run and what defense to use.
Players have always felt this way but only recently have they become vocal about it. Thus, as a coach, you are faced with a difficult situation: Give in to the players and hope you don't lose control of the team (a pipe dream!) or wish the players well in their next program.
Thus far, from what I can glean, most of the coaches in the league have chosen the second option and they should be congratulated for caring so much about the integrity of their programs.

[Knightstalker]

This is not basketball related but I find it interesting.  NJCU and York College of PA will be at VWU along with DeSales of Allentown PA on Saturday for the first round of the NCAA D-III soccer tournament.

Story

[baselinejam]

xcoach - your comment is extraneous. Since you acknowledge that you don't know the RC players; you (and most of the rest of us here) are uncertain of the real underlying problems that RC may or may not face. They certainly have very little of last year's production returning this year. The 2 players that weren't invited back were not big contributors on the stat sheet. I believe coaches are responsible for their work product. If a coach is confronted with a spoiled group of 'Monday morning quarterbacks'? Who does he have to blame but himself? He recruited them. Coaches (and the administrations that pay them) obviously want to win. Hopefully the benefit of D-3 is that you can do it the right way. Until the administration says otherwise the right way is the coach's way. That doesn't absolve the players. They should be making an informed choice about their basketball careers as well. If they didn't research a coach and find out they can't tolerate a harda$$ (I don't know Moir or his style - so this is a generalization) then shame on them. Hopefully they like their college choice on its other, more important, merits.

[maroons6thman]

Capt Obvious.... I participate in more than a few sports related boards and one thing I've learned I've needed when a post such as yours hits the board is greater accuracy, just in case the thoughts and opinions of a couple, or few, are misread as the thoughts and opinions of several, or all.   As a RC grad and a lifelong Maroons fan, in my own opinion, I find it more than a little surprising that there is dissention in the ranks, or as much as you seem to lead me to believe.  Considering the long line of talent and subsequent, multiple ODAC championships, the record number of wins, and most importantly the virtual endless string of good recruits that come to campus each year, can you provide then a little more specific information to support a claim that there is either current, faltering support for Coach Moir, or certainly a lack of coaching ability?  Its not often that Roanoke does indeed end up in the lower echelon of the ODAC, and usually our worst "enemies" (HSC, RMC, VWU) are teams that are also filled with substantial talent, so year after year, yes, natually, it's a difficult road to travel.  I would question then, your claim that RC is virtually always ahead in terms of talent, I would say that we are often on even par with those other teams.  I would question why, as a couple others have, why players would not leave the team now if there is that much of a problem.  I would question why recruits continue to come, as we seem to have a few very nice prospects this year.  I would question even the surprise over the "release" of players - yes, Zurek comes as a surprise, being a senior, and I certainly remember him winning that game last year for the Maroons on that last second layup, but I also, quite frankly, remember the under 3 rebounds a game avg from last year, and the 1 point something average he had when he was a starter several games at the beginning of last year which I can only imagine led him being removed from the starting lineup.  I'd also ask that a phrase such as.... what was it...plethora of questionable coaching decisions be more fully explained, I'm not flaming or attacking here, but those kinds of words are usually opinions. (And yes, I know the substitution patterns are sometimes odd, but towards the end of each and every year you see how those slim way way down once which players RC can count on is truly established.)  So, a little more help here, if you can provide, would be greatly appreciated.

[maroons6thman]

As a postscript, concerning the players from last year's team not on this years - I will miss them all, of course.  McComas was a more than capable point guard, but he was originally at Marshall anyway - is he from there, or simply wanted to return?  And could the absence of Killen and Zurek have anything to do with the fact that several of the new incoming freshman (Edsall, Diggs, Tyson, Peery), and yes, somewhat heralded, nearly all sought after by other ODAC teams (HSC, RMC) all making the varsity team, play at their positions?  Please note I'm not talking about anyone being a spoiled player here, or a player thinking that he's "deserving" of court time no matter what, all I'm attempting to note is that DI or DIII, high school or whatever, if someone ahead of you is more adept, they're going to start ahead of you. 

[jeloesel]

baselinejam,
I don't know how you reached the conclusion that the Maroons don't have much production coming back from last year.  Yes, the points and rebounds of Kevinn Hunter will be missed in the middle, as will the intangible "soul" that Robbie Winfield brought to the court.  However, the bulk of the production is back.  Jared Butler, Ben Shrader, Tee Jackson, Keith Carter, Josh LaPorte, and Ben Lawler are not only back but better than last year.  You add to that core the contribution of AJ Dowell, who showed his stuff at Hampden-Sydney last year.  Ty Sigmon has worked hard in the off season and should be ready to build on his year of experience with Page's offensive and defensive scheme.  You also have veterans Bart Davis, Jeff Leiter and Jamiel Allen who have shown they can make spot contributions on the court.   

With just that "production" from last year, this would be a solid team.  With the addition of the freshmen, this could be a very good team by the time the ODAC season gets in full swing.  This is not a team that is going to miss the four players in question who aren't on the roster this season.  It's 10 days and counting to the season-opening tipoff.

[baselinejam]

jeloesel - You are correct that doesn't take into account Dowell. RC returns less production than all but BC and W&L. W&L regains a starter who only played 3 games last year (due to a broken leg at the Citadel game) and BC has some big transfers. RC ranks 8th in returning points scored, 9th in total rebounds, 7th in assists and a nice 4th in steals & 5th in blocks. That seems like an uphill battle to me.

[maroons6thman]

Just a note to the baselinejam and j. loesel discussion - Just like a preseason poll, any talk of where a team might end up, or how good a season a team will have, is of course pure speculation at this point, as we all know.  Morever, no offense baselinejam, but using any stats on what's "returning" or not is not a very good was to get a bearing - it assumes that the returning players basically perform exactly the same as they did the year before; it doesn't take into account input by returning good players that will have more time on the floor, more impact, more opportunities now that last year's seniors are gone, plus it doesn't take into account freshmen of course, or the intangible factor that while a team might not seem on paper all that formidable, the chemistry could be better, who knows.  That said, I think both Jim and I feel that with our knowledge of what Roanoke has coming back - I'm sorry, there's just no discounting a backcourt or team led by Jared Butler..... or more "room" for Josh LaPorte, who didn't start til after Christmas break last year but bypassed Kevinn Hunter in rebounds per game by nearly 2 a game and by 50 defensive rebounds on the year, plus Mr. Intangible, no mistake Tee Jackson, 3 point bombers in Shrader, Butler and the incoming Dowell, plus any at all help that the freshman provide, give us the possibility of having a very strong year.  Yes, the center spot sort of worries me, but we'll have plenty of people to try out there.

[mybleedinghands]

i was informed by a extremely reliable source that moir had already decided to cut these upper classmen before tryouts had even started

[baselinejam]

maroon6thman- obviously it isn't a crystal ball. All returning players on every team are a year older and expected to be more productive. Every team has a freshman or 2 that they hope will contribute. My analysis just points out that RC lost more than most of the other teams in the ODAC. If all things remained the same they would need to improve the most to match last years success. Trust me I'm not taking shots. I'm a W&L fan. It just makes interesting conversation before the games begin. Let's just say that VW, EMU & HSC have the least to replace. I don't know about you but I'm having fun & can't wait for the season to begin next week!

[maroons6thman]

Oh, I understand - and as far as looking forward to the season, I am as well...... W&L fan huh?  there's always something about each road trip that I enjoy other than the game itself, usually its the place we stop and grab a bite to eat - with Guilford its Stamey's.... the W&L trip, ah....I assume nothing's happened to the Palms...  Looking forward to it......