MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[jdubyadubya]

Algernon - Yes, that's President Greer. He was waving a "Macedo's Maniacs, Fear the Fish" T-shirt the entire game(that and jumping up and down!).

[baselinejam]

Endowments have relatively little to do with athletic success. Coaches, recruiting  and consistency have a lot to do with it. If it were just a measure of endowment $, my Generals would be dominant in ODAC hoops.

[algernon]

Endowments have relatively little to do with athletic success. Coaches, recruiting  and consistency have a lot to do with it. If it were just a measure of endowment $, my Generals would be dominant in ODAC hoops.

Yes .... and ODAC hoops teams would finish in the following order (the number in parentheses is the institution's national rank among 746 institutions based on $$ of endowment, according to a 2005 study by the National Association of College and University Business Officers):

98) Washington and Lee
315) Hampden-Sydney
338) Randolph-Macon
340) Roanoke
384) Emory & Henry
392) Lynchburg
439) Guilford
482) Bridgewater
523) Virginia Wesleyan
660) Eastern Mennonite

[jdubyadubya]

not bad seeing that VWC wasn't born until 1960!

[justafan02]

Endowments have relatively little to do with athletic success. Coaches, recruiting  and consistency have a lot to do with it. If it were just a measure of endowment $, my Generals would be dominant in ODAC hoops.

Totally disagree with that.  Endowments play a huge roll.  Some schools take advantage of good endowments and pull in good kids and some do not.  I think W&L's trouble isn't tuition or money, but their big time academic standards.  You simply can't get a kid with a 2.3 GPA and a 900 SAT in.  However, for other schools that may be 1 and 2 on a kids list and one school can give more institutional money than the other it could force that decision.

Obviously recruiting choices are based on success, location, role and the big whopper from moms and dads is MONEY!  And money in the private school setting is significantly based on a schools endowment.

[jdubyadubya]

While we are on the subject of money, I'd be interested to know how other ODAC(and other conference) schools handle what is commonly referred to as "gap funding," or the difference between what parents/family/student can afford and what the school can provide in aid/scholarship/loan, etc. I am fully aware that DIII schools cannot provide athletic scholarships(someone always brings this up). What are some creative ways other schools handle this?

[Ralph Turner]

While we are on the subject of money, I'd be interested to know how other ODAC(and other conference) schools handle what is commonly referred to as "gap funding," or the difference between what parents/family/student can afford and what the school can provide in aid/scholarship/loan, etc. I am fully aware that DIII schools cannot provide athletic scholarships(someone always brings this up). What are some creative ways other schools handle this?

Not very creative, but a dedicated, hard-working team of admission/enrollment management staff who

-- fervently believe that an education at their institution is of very high value and will well-prepare the student for life,
-- and know all of the resources that legitimately can be made available to that student.

VWC is just now reaching the point at which the first generation of grads are completing their lives' work.  This is when the attraction to the college and its fidelity to its founding core values are most important in obtaining donor/alumni contributions to the on-going mission of the school.   

[mattgrubb]

It is like former all american Jason Strickland for Roanoke once told me about W&L, we pound them now in bball b/c we know we are going to be working for those same guys in a few short years

[hasanova]

How endowments, tuition and academic requirements affect athletic success is a complex issue, especially so, I think, in DIII.   In some ways, I agree with baselinejam, if endowment alone affected athletic success, W&L should be kicking everyone else in the ODAC around like a pinata.  True, they have good success in some sports, but basketball the past few years is less than stellar.  For some sports, such as football and basketball, I agree with justafan02 - it does partially depend on the institution's and the league's criteria for academic admittance, namely, SAT/ACT, GPA and extracurricular participation.   Let's not kid ourselves, however, some schools in the ODAC will admit some athletes that other schools will not, but this is also true in DI.  Funny, for example, how Duke is a champion in basketball, but not football.  Or Harvard is great in hockey, but rarely basketball.  Part of it is an institutional tradition for one sport or another, but that can shift with time and coaching skill (I remember when Duke stunk at basketball, for example, after the Bubas reign).  I think it will be equally interesting to see what happens when the Krzyzewski era ends.

Endowments do affect the overall appearance and facilities at a school, as well as their ability to offer more attractive financial aid packages.  If you have hundreds of millions of dollars available, you may have the most appealing campus, scholarship opportunities, athletic venues and training facilities.  If you have tens of millions of dollars, however, you may have to make some "budgetary decisions" for where to spend and where not to spend.

For many recruits, I think the decision boils down to what an athlete's family can afford (after any financial aid package), his or her rapport with the coaching staff and his or her perceived chances for playing time.  Hopefully, forward thinking DIII athletes will also consider their chances for academic success and how well their degree from Iwannawinna U. will prepare them for the decades AFTER the games have ended and the accolades have ceased to fall on their shoulders.      

[hasanova]

It is like former all american Jason Strickland for Roanoke once told me about W&L, we pound them now in bball b/c we know we are going to be working for those same guys in a few short years

This a long running joke all over the country.  For example - Q: What does an athlete from (insert school name here) say to a graduate of (insert prestigious school name here) five years after graduation?  A:  Do you want fries with that?

[algernon]

Obviously recruiting choices are based on success, location, role and the big whopper from moms and dads is MONEY!  And money in the private school setting is significantly based on a schools endowment.

If money is based on endowment, it's also based upon cost.  These are the rankings of the ODAC schools, in terms of cost (Tuition, mandatory fees, average room & board, 2003-04; Source: State Council of Higher Education for Virginia):

1) Washington & Lee - $29,643
2) Hampden-Sydney - $29,257
3) Roanoke - $27,643
4) Randolph-Macon - $27,590
5) Lynchburg - $26,315
6) Bridgewater - $25,150
7) Eastern Mennonite - $22,990
8 ) Emory & Henry - $21,950
Information for Virginia Wesleyan and Guilford was not readily available.

It seems that the schools with the highest costs generally have the highest endowments .... which may be able to offset the higher costs.  At the end of the day, I don't think that endowment has that much to do with it.

Washington & Lee's academic standards are not as high as Williams and Amherst.  Both of the latter two teams made 2 trips to the Final Four in the last 3 years.  There are a lot of good students out there who play good basketball and are happy to go to schools like Williams, Amherst, Washington University, and Washington & Lee.

[hasanova]

Obviously recruiting choices are based on success, location, role and the big whopper from moms and dads is MONEY!  And money in the private school setting is significantly based on a schools endowment.

If money is based on endowment, it's also based upon cost.  These are the rankings of the ODAC schools, in terms of cost (Tuition, mandatory fees, average room & board, 2003-04; Source: State Council of Higher Education for Virginia):

1) Washington & Lee - $29,643
2) Hampden-Sydney - $29,257
3) Roanoke - $27,643
4) Randolph-Macon - $27,590
5) Lynchburg - $26,315
6) Bridgewater - $25,150
7) Eastern Mennonite - $22,990
8 ) Emory & Henry - $21,950
Information for Virginia Wesleyan and Guilford was not readily available.

It seems that the schools with the highest costs generally have the highest endowments .... which may be able to offset the higher costs.  At the end of the day, I don't think that endowment has that much to do with it.

Washington & Lee's academic standards are not as high as Williams and Amherst.  Both of the latter two teams made 2 trips to the Final Four in the last 3 years.  There are a lot of good students out there who play good basketball and are happy to go to schools like Williams, Amherst, Washington University, and Washington & Lee.

Guilford's fees for a residential student (living on campus) are posted on their website, www.guilford.edu, and tend to range from about $29,500 to $32,500 per year for the 2005-06 academic year.  The variation in price is due to such factors as residence hall selection, choice of meal plans, study abroad options, etc.

[Pat Coleman]

A reminder: Dave Macedo will be on Hoopsville tonight.

http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/tunein.htm

[mybleedinghands]

Obviously recruiting choices are based on success, location, role and the big whopper from moms and dads is MONEY!  And money in the private school setting is significantly based on a schools endowment.

If money is based on endowment, it's also based upon cost.  These are the rankings of the ODAC schools, in terms of cost (Tuition, mandatory fees, average room & board, 2003-04; Source: State Council of Higher Education for Virginia):

1) Washington & Lee - $29,643
2) Hampden-Sydney - $29,257
3) Roanoke - $27,643
4) Randolph-Macon - $27,590
5) Lynchburg - $26,315
6) Bridgewater - $25,150
7) Eastern Mennonite - $22,990
8 ) Emory & Henry - $21,950
Information for Virginia Wesleyan and Guilford was not readily available.

It seems that the schools with the highest costs generally have the highest endowments .... which may be able to offset the higher costs.  At the end of the day, I don't think that endowment has that much to do with it.

Washington & Lee's academic standards are not as high as Williams and Amherst.  Both of the latter two teams made 2 trips to the Final Four in the last 3 years.  There are a lot of good students out there who play good basketball and are happy to go to schools like Williams, Amherst, Washington University, and Washington & Lee.

Or if you live near one of the ODAC schools, you can always get a parent to work there a year in advance before you enroll. I know that at LC if you have a parent that works there you get free tuition (just tuition, nothing else) and you can have tuition exchange where the tuition is free at the other ODAC schools. I don't know if all the ODAC schools have that policy though. Doesn't apply to grad school though. Who needs endowment when yoiu could do that?!  lol

[justafan02]

VWC is going to be $29,400 or so next year.  From my experience as an admissions counselor for two years I saw it like this.  A family would have and EFC (or estimated family contribution) of about 10,000 for Johnny and the school would meet XX% of their need. 

So if the school's tuition was 30K, after the family paid what they could it would leave 20K and the school would meed the XX% of their need.  Now that XX has a lot of factors.  One is academics.  The better the student, the more of a %.  A student with 3.8 GPA would get 80-85% maybe while a student with a 2.2 would get 70-75% at the same school with the same need (just throwing numbers out there).  However, the XX% that each school meets (in the private school setting) is based on how much that school can afford to meet in general which is based on their endowment.

Therefore schools with better endowments meet a higher percentage (because they can afford to) of a students left over need than schools with small endowments.  I saw many examples where school A would offer a 3.8/1200 student 8,000 and school B would offer that same student 12,000.  School B had a better almuni backing and endowment and could afford it so they in general outbid School B (left schools names out on purpose but this happened on many occasions).

I agree that endowment isn't the top factor, but when it comes down to financial aid packages that same EFC has a huge role when a student is torn between School A and School B and mommy and daddy can't afford X amount of dollars.