MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[tigerfanalso]

NAIA is not the same as NCAA D111 ...... I'd like to think HSC could lure Warner back to campus if Dee Vick is not hired. Both of these guys are great recruiters and over time (2yrs) could bring the talent level back up to where it needs to be. 

Any word on recruits at HSC? I've not heard a word. Next year could be a struggle if the incoming class can't play a important role.

[ODACHOOPS]

haha yah real bitter, especially about those 10 championships!...I just wasnt sure why you choose the winnest program in the ODAC to snap at..all I was doing was simply stating the facts, vwc has the advantage of getting just about any kid into their program, an advantage most other ODAC schools dont have.  Thats a "fact" not an "opinion"...

[HSCfan]

From what I hear, that Berry/Shorter rivalry is about as wild as H-SC/R-MC!

TFA,

You're right, NAIA is not the same as NCAA DIII. However, that is the reason I believe Warner would rather stay at Shorter for the time being. A) he just got there and is very close to home, a good situation for his young family and B) the ability to give scholarships is a luxury and makes a very good recruiter an outstanding recruiter! It is just so tough to get the same type kids into Hampden-Sydney, and remember, in Warner's second go-round, he brought in Paul Matthews, Matt Partsch, Brent Dillard, Daniel Griggs, and Colin O'Neill - all fine players, but only one of which really made an immediate impact. The talent pool available to H-SC is much smaller now than it was even five or six years ago.

As far as recruits for next season, apparently there are two, maybe three kids coming...two for sure. I'm sure the next coach's first priority will be to begin the process for rising seniors and bring in the type of talent that can catapult H-SC back to the top of the class!

[tigers]

I just don't agree with your views on recruiting and there being a signficant drop in the pool of athletes available to HSC relative to the rest of D3 that does not have scholarships to give.  I'm not sure how other ODAC schools are better positioned when they are also private and have (more or less) similar academic standards/scholarship levels. 

What I would say is that recruiting has become more competitive than it was in the late 80's early 90s.  Now, most (if not ALL) ODAC schools have coaches working hard on principally the same kids.  15 years ago that wasn't necessarily the case.  There were only a few schools out there beating the bushes finding the top-caliber kids who were overlooked by D1 or just missed D1.  However, I think things have been relatively similar to this for the past 5 or more years.  But, this is probably the biggest reason there has been more parity across the conference in talent levels, IMO.

[tigerfanalso]

HSCFAN

All good points, but I still don't understand why the available talent pool is much less than it was several years back. I look at the recruits (quality & numbers) we bring in every year for the football team... seems to me that football recruiting is just as competitive, if not more so, than basketball recruiting is, but yet Coach Favret always seems to have success (47 incoming freshmen this year representing 14% of the freshmen class).
Basketball does not require those types of numbers. So if the f'ball program can recruit those types of numbers why is the number of potential b'ball players so limited? All coaches are dealing with the same issues; cost of education, admission standards, financial aide, etc.

Not trying to be difficult; just trying to understand the limitations you keep bringing up !!!!

Go Tigers

[HSCfan]

"tigers" brings up a point that I failed to make, in that more coaches are hitting the road harder to recruit athletes these days, especially in DIII. However, I know for a fact that H-SC lost a large handful of kids this season in recruiting wars because of money and money only. The packages that were available to kids at Hampden-Sydney are not available anymore...even football (although one kid may not seem significant in that sport) lost a kid because of the expense of H-SC. Yes, I have acknowledged that tuition is going up at all schools. But whereas tuition may be up to $30,000 say at Roanoke (just an example, not certain on the exact numbers), you cannot deny that that figure is cheaper than H-SC's $41,000. If this had been the figure when I was an athlete, I could not have attended Hampden-Sydney and would have chosen a less expensive option. Bottom line, H-SC has begun to lose recruits b/c A) more coaches are out there going to work and B) the aid and academic scholarships have not increased in well over a decade. An academic scholarship that covered 90% of tuition in the early 90s now covers barely 50%, which is a large factor b/c H-S is arguably the most expensive school in the ODAC to attend.

TFA, football is also recruiting from a much much larger pool, thus recruiting is much less competitive. If you look, football gets most of their recruits from private schools (St. Christopher's for example) and higher income West End schools (such as Mills Godwin). It is hard to compare football and basketball recruiting because the nature of recruiting is much different with the size of teams and even number of guys that you need to play the game. I can only make these points about recruiting because I have seen first hand the reasons that Hampden-Sydney has lost recruits over the past couple of years. Not because of tradition or coaching, but mostly because of money...and it's frustrating because families continue to say that they love Hampden-Sydney but simply cannot afford it!

[HSCfan]

And again, "tigers," I am not comparing Hampden-Sydney to the rest of DIII! I am simply comparing Hampden-Sydney of the 90s to the Hampden-Sydney of today! Please consider this because this is the second time someone has accused me of comparing Hampden-Sydney to other schools! I am just trying to show that recruiting to this school is not as easy as it once was - not even close! I only know this because I have had to deal with it! The last thing I want to do is make an excuse because I have pride in the program and believe that the Tigers can get where they need to go with hard work...but I am just stating the facts of what has been happening lately.

[jdubyadubya]

ODACHOOPS - Unlike DeWayneCarter, I can't let your immature and unfairly biased comments about Virginia Wesleyan College go by the wayside without commenting. It seems that we can never get through any year without the ODAC elitists bashing the academic underachievers of VWC! Comments like yours, to paraphrase "well everybody knows that anyone can get into VWC" are ignorant and based on either bad information or untruths. My youngest son, who was a fair ballplayer at VWC, was an even better student who balanced athletics and academics and graduated in four years. He has been very successful since VWC. My oldest son graduated from HSC and has been very successful. It's all in what you make of your education. Let's stop making these sweeping generalities about academic standards. 

[ODACHOOPS]

I completely agree with your statement that "you get out of your education what you put into your education" and that you can graduate from any institution and go on to be a great young man in society.
However, I'm not arguing that...No one is posting anything on this board that is not true, so why is the fact that I am posting 100% truth bother people sooo much, especially vwc posters?  I just don't understand it!  If I was a vwc poster I would have no problem with people stating facts that my institute is a much easier one to get accepted into, as well as receive more financial aid too.  The facts are the facts...when your school has lower SAT requirements, lower GPA requirements and thus can recruit from a MUCH larger pool, as well as give those student athletes a large amount of financial aid, "you just never know who they can bring in from year to year" That is exactly what my quote was originally that got so many of you fired up.  I don't see any bashing going on their, simply stating the facts.  So let me ask this one question.  A kid who vwc has already "signed" for next year (wont mention his name for the kids sake) vwc was able to receive a commitment from whose gpa is 2.3 and SAT score is 800! Now in no way am I "bashing this young man" either but I would just like to ask this one question.  What school other then vwc could except as well as give significant financial aid to that has those numbers?? 

[Pat Coleman]

That 41,000 is tuition, plus room, plus board, plus fees. Let's just be sure we're all talking about the same thing.

W&L, of course, weighs in at 47K. http://www.wlu.edu/x835.xml
Indeed, Roanoke is "just" $37,595. http://web.roanoke.edu/x1124.xml
Randolph-Macon seems similar after adding in my head. http://www.rmc.edu/financial-aid/fees.aspx

Perhaps the attraction of VWC is actually that it's less expensive than all of these:
http://www.vwc.edu/admissions/financial_aid/tuition/index.php

ODACHOOPS, perhaps the issue is that you are simply repeating your "facts" without any citation. This information is available all over the place on the Web. Go pull out the actual numbers and provide us a link rather than reiterating rhetoric.

[HSCfan]

I apologize for even bringing this whole thing up. Should have just kept my opinions to myself. Again...I am comparing H-SC of the 90s to H-SC of today and was simply trying to debunk the thought that the Hampden-Sydney head coaching job is an easy one and a great situation as someone noted.  I am NOT comparing H-SC to any other school in DIII!

Recruiting kids to H-SC in the 90s = easier
Recruiting them to H-SC now = harder...that is it!

It's one heck of a school to coach at, but by no means is it an easy job! I brought up Roanoke not even having a clue of the cost, just trying to give an example! I'm sorry that I offended so many people, I just know that in trying to recruit kids, it's hard to swallow when someone looks at you and says, "We really would love to come to H-SC, but we just can't pay so we are going to (fill in other ODAC school here)." That used to not be the case with trying to get players into school because kids were having to pay $6,000 as opposed to $25,000 and up!

[tigerfanalso]

HSCFAN

I'm not riding you. I think we all understand that education costs are up across the board and parents are having to make college decisions based on costs more so today than yesterday... but is the cost of education that much less at other ODAC schools ? I ask because I don't know. I just can't see how RC, RMC and other like schools can be charging substantially
less..... or is it a situation where other schools have increased the financial aide packages to keep up with the cost of education more so than HSC has ?

Just so you'll know ... I've never thought recruiting or coaching at HSC(or any other school) is easy. I know how time consuming and stressful it is and can be and I have all the respect in the world for those that do it.

[HSCfan]

Yes TFA! That is exactly what I'm getting at! I believe that H-SC's financial aid packages are simply not getting any better. So many coaches around here are campaigning for these packages, which have not increased since the early 90s, to improve and change with the times a bit! However, I think the problem lies with the fact that applications are up, so admissions believes that there is no need to raise academic awards...what they fail to realize is that this really hurts recruiting when kids are able to pay less at other schools due to better academic packages. So yes, Hampden-Sydney is getting more applicants, but less and less of those coming every year are athletes, because it is simply cheaper, through these packages, to go elsewhere. So the cost of school is not so much the issue (as Pat so eloquently informed us  ) as is the fact that academic rewards for rising freshmen have not increased in almost 20 years!

I guess it was a fault in my argument, thanks for pointing that out! I never was a member of a debate team during my academic career 

[tigerfanalso]

Now I understand your point.

Any hope this situation may change ?

[HSCfan]

I hope so...I fear that it may take a few uncharacteristic seasons spent in the middle of the ODAC standings for the problem to really hit home, however. One amazing thing about being an athlete at a school such as Hampden-Sydney is the thousands of people who care so much for you and your team's success. At the same token, many of those same people also take very personally when teams do not succeed (and understandably so, they have devoted a lot of time and money into the programs!). That is the blessing and the curse of being a Hampden-Sydney athlete! I hope for the sake of those alums and the sake of our current players and coaches that something is done sooner rather than later!