MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[hasanova]

That 41,000 is tuition, plus room, plus board, plus fees. Let's just be sure we're all talking about the same thing.

W&L, of course, weighs in at 47K. http://www.wlu.edu/x835.xml
Indeed, Roanoke is "just" $37,595. http://web.roanoke.edu/x1124.xml
Randolph-Macon seems similar after adding in my head. http://www.rmc.edu/financial-aid/fees.aspx

Perhaps the attraction of VWC is actually that it's less expensive than all of these:
http://www.vwc.edu/admissions/financial_aid/tuition/index.php

ODACHOOPS, perhaps the issue is that you are simply repeating your "facts" without any citation. This information is available all over the place on the Web. Go pull out the actual numbers and provide us a link rather than reiterating rhetoric.

For comparison's sake, it looks like Guilford will be between $32,000-38,000 in 2008-09.  This is tuition, room and board, and fees, but varies due to room and meal plan options.

http://www.guilford.edu/admission/financial_assistance/fees.cfm

[jdubyadubya]

ODACHOOPS - Why does it bother us? Because it's constant from people like you. Try being on the receiving end once in while.

[baselinejam]

I apologize for even bringing this whole thing up. Should have just kept my opinions to myself. Again...I am comparing H-SC of the 90s to H-SC of today and was simply trying to debunk the thought that the Hampden-Sydney head coaching job is an easy one and a great situation as someone noted.  I am NOT comparing H-SC to any other school in DIII!

Recruiting kids to H-SC in the 90s = easier
Recruiting them to H-SC now = harder...that is it!

I guess its more difficult when Deano isn't guiding any 'less than ready for ACC surplus recruits' to his former player.

RMC looks good for the coming year. Don't discount my Gennies - they will probably start 5 seniors.

[ODACHOOPS]

"It's constant from people like you"?? I wasn't by any means trying to beat a dead dog into the ground...all I said was one simple statement when the topic of conversation was on next year and what teams should be favored in the odac.  vwc has an X-factor that know other top odac schools have and that's they can recruit and enroll kids that other schools can't.  So with that said "you never know what kids they may bring in from year to year."  The only thing that is "constant" about that statement is that anytime anyone on this board mentions vwc college and academics in the same sentence the marlin posters start coming out with their claws up in an attempt to defend themselves.  There is know need for you guys to attempt to defend yourselves from a "statement of truth."  If yah ask me all ODAC schools should be jealous of vwc and can only dream of recruiting players from that large of pool.

[HSCfan]

Tough news out of Hampden-Sydney this morning...apparently Dee Vick has turned down the offer to become the next head coach of the Tigers. Surprising, yet no one can fault Vick in returning to his associate head coaching position at William and Mary.

Now I assume that a real search will have to begin ASAP. With Chad Warner all but out of the question, I'd like to hear what some other Tiger faithful may have in mind (I know that people have mentioned Ryan Odom, for one)...

[tigerfanalso]

No Dee Vick is not good ... you mentioned Chad Warner is out of the picture.. my next pick would be Mike Rhoades !!!!!!

Are you absolutely sure Dee Vick turned down the job ?

[HSCfan]

Mike Rhoades! The equivalent of Coach K heading down Tabacco Road and taking the Chapel Hill exit!

Unfortunately, I am sure. It would have been a great fit for many reasons, but the committee will have to move on! I know everyone is anxious, but I'm sure Hampden-Sydney will lure a promising candidate to The Hill...let's hope sooner rather than later!

[oldfish]

My 2cents on the VWC topic:

As far as VWC's ability to get any basketball player that they want admitted, that's not entirely true.  While I haven't researched the topic, I would agree that VWC probably has the lowest admission standards in the ODAC.  That's a fact and can't be debated.  However, that doesn't mean that that they can get ANYONE admitted, but it may be easier to get a marginal student admitted.  Throughout the ODAC at MOST of the institutions the basketball coach's relationship with the admissions office may have a direct effect on the ability to get a marginal student into the school.  So I hope that nobody would accuse ONLY vwc of admitting these types of students.  And just for the record I would congratulate the VWC administration on the improvements they have made in the area of academic performance of their students in the last 5 years and their goal to become a phi beta kappa institution.

And my second problem is with this statement, "not to mention give just about any player close to a full ride in terms of financial aid".  By "full ride" I am assuming that you mean loans which must be paid back.  It was my understanding during my years in the ODAC that VWC had very little grant or "free" money to throw at students.

Additionally, I wouldn't characterize VWC as a commuter school as more than 50% of the students live on campus.  During my years playing at VWC there were never more than 4 players who lived off campus.

[Pat Coleman]

Mike Rhoades! The equivalent of Coach K heading down Tabacco Road and taking the Chapel Hill exit!

Rhoades is 25 times more likely to take the open Lycoming job than the Hampden-Sydney job.

[tigerfanalso]

HSCFAN

Short of conducting a national search, do you see a likely candidate for the job ?
Past Vick, Warner & Odom, I do not have a clue and from what I've read on this board; Warner & Odom would not be interested.

[HSCfan]

Mike Rhoades! The equivalent of Coach K heading down Tabacco Road and taking the Chapel Hill exit!

Rhoades is 25 times more likely to take the open Lycoming job than the Hampden-Sydney job.

Very true Mr. Coleman!

I think the search is wide open at this point. I've heard the name of Andy Gray, who was a finalist five years ago when Bubba was hired. Obviously there are some DI assistants throwing their names into the ring, I'm sure several ODAC assistants will be vying for the job as well.

[ODACHOOPS]

Oldfish- you confirm and re-state my #1 point and reason for posting what I did originally regarding vwc and academics!  I may have been a little off in my wording and for that I apologize, however all I was arguing/saying is what you stated in your post "I would agree that VWC probably has the lowest admission standards in the ODAC."  That is a true statement and I am still in shock that a vwc poster has finally admitted that, thank you for your honesty! And with that statement above also comes the fact that they can recruit and admit people that most other ODAC schools can't! That's all I was saying from the get-go.  Having the ability to recruit from such a large pool of athletes means "you just never know what players they may bring in from year to year." 

[Pat Coleman]

Of course, admissions standards and test scores don't always correlate to the type of education received. It's all what you make of it.

I'm just glad ODACHOOPS finally got through another post without a misspelling or grammatical error. Phew. Those who play the academics card should take extra care to come across as academically sound.

[hasanova]

As someone with a background in mathematics and statistics, I was always taught that a simple ranking system can be flawed.  There are now eleven ODAC schools, for example, with men's basketball.  By whatever criterium you choose to rank them (acceptance percentage, endowment, SAT, ACT, GPA), one school will be first and one will be last with everyone else in between.  The keys are the spread from top to bottom and measures of dispersion such as standard deviation. 

Let's say School 1 has an Average SAT requirement of 1305, Schools 2-10 are tied at 1300 and School 11 is 1295.  School 11's "last", but no one could reasonably argue it was "significantly different" from Schools 1-10.   Now, I know these numbers are not representative of the ODAC, but they were used to illustrate a point.   Based on my experience, I do think it's safe to say both anecdotally and statistically that W&L is "significantly different" from the rest of the ODAC in endowment, average SAT scores and some other quantifiable metrics, but perhaps someone should analyze the numbers before making blanket statements about the academic rigor of one ODAC school versus others.  When you do that, your argument will either have have a lot more credibility or it'll just become a moot point ... just my "two cents worth."  Peace

[allsky7]

As someone with a background in mathematics and statistics, I was always taught that a simple ranking system can be flawed.  There are now eleven ODAC schools, for example, with men's basketball.  By whatever criterium you choose to rank them (acceptance percentage, endowment, SAT, ACT, GPA), one school will be first and one will be last with everyone else in between.  The keys are the spread from top to bottom and measures of dispersion such as standard deviation. 

Let's say School 1 has an Average SAT requirement of 1305, Schools 2-10 are tied at 1300 and School 11 is 1295.  School 11's "last", but no one could reasonably argue it was "significantly different" from Schools 1-10.   Now, I know these numbers are not representative of the ODAC, but they were used to illustrate a point.   Based on my experience, I do think it's safe to say both anecdotally and statistically that W&L is "significantly different" from the rest of the ODAC in endowment, average SAT scores and some other quantifiable metrics, but perhaps someone should analyze the numbers before making blanket statements about the academic rigor of one ODAC school versus others.  When you do that, your argument will either have have a lot more credibility or it'll just become a moot point ... just my "two cents worth."  Peace

     Ok, since things are slow, I'll bite on this topic. Can you not make a case that when all is said and done, the playing field is relatively level?
- W&L has the highest standard but they draw from a larger geographic area.
- Schools like H-S and Guilford are 2nd tier ODAC schools so they may get a few kids that W&L denied but their geographic reach is smaller.
- Schools like (poor...poor....everybody picks on) VWC may get kids that H-S or GC can't get but do they have the same geographic reach? (perhaps being in Tidewater, they don't need to reach?)

     Someone will always be at the top and someone will always be at the bottom. The playing field will never be completely level. I am assuming that VWC was granted admission into the ODAC in the first place because they at least met some minimum standard. Then when you start talking about tuition cost, aid packages, coaching staffs, family tradition, distance from home, etc., it can really get complicated. This topic IS measurable in some respects but subjective in others.
     VWC has had success in recent years but I certainly wouldn't say they dominate to the point that we need to look at why and do they have an unfair advantage. Let's leave VWC alone for a while and get back to picking on W&L!! 

     * My next topic is on the different types of intelligence and the impact it has on admissions for basketball players at ODAC schools.  (kidding) So maybe you can explain the Krebs Cycle in Latin while standing on your head listening to Metallica. If you don't have enough common sense to get in out of the rain or can't relate to the people around you, then who gives a S!!