MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Jacketlawyer]

jacketlawyer,
I think Pat is not interested in a men's lacrosse thread added to his site.  There are other chat rooms to take care of the ODAC lax fans.  Be warned however, that scottietoohottie has taken up posting about lacrosse there, even though he knows nothing about the sport.   

Very much appreciate the tip on the LAX posts.  Maybe STH could clue me in on where the other posting boards are when the time comes along!!

[PA Royals Fan]

Hi all,

I know I am late to this conversation, but I would be VERY surprised if there are many teams in ODAC doing as much with as little as EMU does (by choice).  As a school owned and operated by the Mennonite Church USA, the school is not going to look, sound or feel like schools who are "A school in the ________ tradition" where denominational ties are historical and not current. 

I also know last year we had this same conversation and it was clear from it that the endowments levels at EMU are not anywhere near what they are at some of the other ODAC schools.  Again, that is not a complaint.  If EMU did not want to be in ODAC, they could leave.  I actually like that the Royals have to scrap and scrape to get anything.  Makes the few banners mean something!

Thirdly, be very careful about what you are alledging in regards to people of color getting a better deal at EMU.  I know EMU has been working hard to make its student body diverse, but I SERIOUSLY doubt getting really good financial packages for athletes is a practice in which they are engaged.

[hasanova]

steelyglen - It doesn't matter what sort of post you write, you have a big hill to climb (or is that ditch to dig?) to catch STH on negative karma.  Minus 38!  Are you kidding me?  Scottie, dude, how do you do it?    Is it the sheer volume of posts or pure content?   

[PA Royals Fan]

Oh just for comparisons sake,  a few minutes of searching showed my the Washington and Lee has an endowment of AT LEAST 440 Million dollars while the last EMU number I saw was about 16 million.  While I agree that is not the only indication of how good athletic teams will be, I think it does show something about the school's resources.

[hasanova]

Oh just for comparisons sake,  a few minutes of searching showed my the Washington and Lee has an endowment of AT LEAST 440 Million dollars while the last EMU number I saw was about 16 million.  While I agree that is not the only indication of how good athletic teams will be, I think it does show something about the school's resources.

PA Royals Fan -I believe you are in the right ballpark on W&L's endowment of $440 million.  No one else in the ODAC comes close to that figure.  I'm not sure of this so I will put in a disclaimer, but I also heard W&L was allowed to keep some (grandfathered) endowed football scholarships from the days when they played at a higher classification.  Does anyone know if this is true?

[Jacketlawyer]

Wow, that sounds like a conspiracy theory to me!!  Good luck on getting validation on that one, Hasanova!!

W&L hasn't played DI football since the '50s, I believe!!

[hasanova]

Wow, that sounds like a conspiracy theory to me!!  Good luck on getting validation on that one, Hasanova!!

W&L hasn't played DI football since the '50s, I believe!!

That's exactly what I'm saying - I heard these endowments were made that long ago!

[PA Royals Fan]

From Wikipedia

Eight D-3 schools do currently offer scholarships in a capacity as grandfathered schools which traditionally participated in the highest levels of single sports prior to the tiering of schools into divisions. These teams compete at the Division I level, while the remainder of their athletic program remains D-3. They are Clarkson University (men's and women's ice hockey), Colorado College (men's ice hockey and women's soccer), Hartwick College (men's soccer, women's water polo), Johns Hopkins University (men's and women's lacrosse), SUNY Oneonta (men's soccer), Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, (men's ice hockey and adding scholarships in women's ice hockey in 2005), Rutgers at Newark (men's volleyball), and St. Lawrence University (men's and women's ice hockey). Each school has the right to offer scholarships in one men's and one women's sport. These schools prefer to enjoy the characteristics of having a small, academically focused athletic program while maintaining competitive ability in their premier sport(s).

[gogenerals]

     The SAT question at W&L is an interesting one.   According to  the W&L website, the middle 50% of incoming freshmen in 2005 earned between a 1330-1430 on the SAT.    

Yahoo gave the following statistics for the W&L incoming class of 2004:

Test scores SAT verbal scores over 500 100%, SAT math scores over 500 100%, ACT scores over 18 100%, SAT verbal scores over 600 96%, SAT math scores over 600 97%, ACT scores over 24 100%, SAT verbal scores over 700 43%, SAT math scores over 700 48%, ACT scores over 30 51%

I see two contrasting lines of thought regarding the SAT's, W&L, and Basketball.  

1. W&L is at a competitive disadvantage because it requires high SAT scores, meaning their basketball applicant pool is smaller because there are fewer basketball players with high SAT scores than average or below average SAT scores.

2.  W&L has a competitive advantage over the other ODAC schools when it comes down to recruiting a kid who wants to play basketball and attend the most selective college or university possible.

Bottom line is all ODAC schools have college players on their teams.   ODAC contests are ultimately decided by effort in practice and execution in games.   Talking about SAT scores is just an excuse for losing.


   One possible reason W&L has struggled is because it has trouble getting players through its program.  While it is possible to win with freshmen like the FAB 5, a strong argument could be made for the importance of a strong, talented senior class.   Over the past 7 years, W&L has averaged 1.28 seniors on its roster per year.

    I hope this group of young Generals stays tough, keeps fighting, and finds a way to win. The ODAC is filled with great players, coaches, and students so it will be difficult.  However, these young Generals will have a greater appreciation for victories if they go through down times first.  

[hasanova]

Well said, gogenerals.

[Jacketlawyer]

I had to check on the endowment figure from earlier as far as W&L goes.  Suffering from "endowment envy."

According to US News and World Report, W&L's endowment is around 441 M.  And here's the rest of us, rounded off:

H-SC  102M
R-MC    95M
RC        94M
E&H      67M
GC        58M
BC        51M
VWC     36M
EMU       16M

Some of the women's schools AIN'T hurtin'.  I think R-MWC is around 126M.

[ladyeagle]

all well said steelyglen.   

[hasanova]

I had to check on the endowment figure from earlier as far as W&L goes.  Suffering from "endowment envy."

According to US News and World Report, W&L's endowment is around 441 M.  And here's the rest of us, rounded off:

H-SC  102M
R-MC    95M
RC        94M
E&H      67M
GC        58M
BC        51M
VWC     36M
EMU       16M

Some of the women's schools AIN'T hurtin'.  I think R-MWC is around 126M.

Thanks, jacketlawyer.  I didn't see LC in your post.  Were they also listed? 

Just an observation, but the alumnae of all female schools are usually very generous and incredibly loyal to their schools.  I used to date someone who graduated from Mt. Holyoke and the endowment at that school is unbelievably large.  I realize SBC, HU and RMWC are not in the famous "Seven Sisters," but I am not the least bit surprised they have healthy endowments.

[mybleedinghands]

"I understand that EMU is offering full financial packages to minority players"

That sounds like athletic scholarships to me! Isn't that an NCAA Violation, or do all minorities have a chance to receive these "full financial packages?"

jacketlawyer,
I think Pat is not interested in a men's lacrosse thread added to his site.  There are other chat rooms to take care of the ODAC lax fans.  Be warned however, that scottietoohottie has taken up posting about lacrosse there, even though he knows nothing about the sport.  

Very much appreciate the tip on the LAX posts. Maybe STH could clue me in on where the other posting boards are when the time comes along!!

Laxpower.com, that's the only one i post on. I havent posted on there in quite a while though. It's just not as good as this board!

[mybleedinghands]

I had to check on the endowment figure from earlier as far as W&L goes.  Suffering from "endowment envy."

According to US News and World Report, W&L's endowment is around 441 M.  And here's the rest of us, rounded off:

H-SC  102M
R-MC    95M
RC        94M
E&H      67M
GC        58M
BC        51M
VWC     36M
EMU       16M

Some of the women's schools AIN'T hurtin'.  I think R-MWC is around 126M.

Thanks, jacketlawyer.  I didn't see LC in your post.  Were they also listed? 

Just an observation, but the alumnae of all female schools are usually very generous and incredibly loyal to their schools.  I used to date someone who graduated from Mt. Holyoke and the endowment at that school is unbelievably large.  I realize SBC, HU and RMWC are not in the famous "Seven Sisters," but I am not the least bit surprised they have healthy endowments.

the same website has LC listed with an endowment of $62,629,543