MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[ODACHOOPS]

I wouldn't go as far to say "Turner King shot himself in the ass last night" in terms of POY, that's a little harsh. Yes he has had two bad games back to back, but W&L is a very good defensive team and played him very tough. In the Randolph game he should have had more then 10. Nothing about their team should hold him to 10 points, but when you take a top notch scorer out of his comfort zone (don't start him and thus take away 4-5 minutes to start each half that he is used to) you take him out of rhythm. He is still the best pure scorer in the ODAC (tied for the lead with 19.3 even after two of his worst games of his career) and still one of the two top players in the league. Big picture, yes Justin Short will most likley win it - especially after Macon wins the regular season title. But not one player from Guilford, W&L, Roanoke or VWC is anywhere on King's level...if they released vote totals he would hands down finish in the top two vote-getters for POY. If I remember correctly, Justin Call won the award years ago after playing for a very average Emory and Henry team...

[sludge]

Hopefully the Tigers have hit the bottom and will be on the way up from here out; time will tell.

I think the Tigers are dangerous.  Road games can be weird.

> > not one player from Guilford, W&L, Roanoke or VWC is anywhere on King's level...

I'm not quite buying that one yet.

[HSCfan]

tigerfanalso and ODACHOOPS ~

Here's to hopes of an improved end of the season! I know it's tough to see our Tigers struggling the way they are at the moment, but I'm excited because I know this will light an even brighter fire in the hearts of Coach Vick and his staff to get this program back to the top!

As far as Turner's POY candidacy is concerned, I think the Tigers' record and not his individual performance will be the deciding factor. Other than Justin Short, I would bet my money that there is no other player that coaches prepare for more in the league, not only because of his skill, but because of his great importance to the success of the H-SC team.

Let's remember, Turner has had two tough outs in a row, and because they were consecutive, it makes it appear worse than it is. Short has had a few bad games this year, as has Clay Henson, Stephen Fields, and some of the other top players in the league. I would go as far to say, however, that no other player has had to shoulder the amount of responsibility that King did in the first 12 or so games this season when no other Tiger could score in double figures and King was putting up 20+ a night against teams whose defenses were designed to shut him down. He was shooting a phenomenal percentage, and still, with a 1-13 output in his last two games, is shooting 52 percent!

At some point, he was going to hit a rough patch. With the passing of his mother three games into the year, I was amazed that he continued to play at the level he did, and with the responsibility of scoring almost half of his team's points for half of the year, he maintained a 20+ point average until his 0-point night at W&L dropped him to 19.8 (now 19.3). Despite all of that, he is still tied for the league lead. Incredible if you ask me, especially when you look at the struggles of his teammates from wire-to-wire.

I agree with you, tigerfanalso, that he will not win POY, and I also have to agree with you that last night may have sealed that fate. But I believe last night sealed his fate because it dropped the Tigers to 4-6, 9-10 and not because he only scored 10. In the end, we both agree that King won't win the POY and that we hope H-SC finds the recipe to cook up some late season upsets!

[tigerfanalso]

Just to clarify .... I think King is one of the best in the league and one of the best to play for HSC; I just think Short has the inside track to POY.
I'm pulling for King and the Tigers and has I said, hopefully they have hit the bottom and are on the way up from here.

[HSCfan]

I'm in complete agreement that Short has the inside track...his team is leading the ODAC and he is their ring leader! Just stats alone, King would have a great shot, but unfortunately there are more factors involved!

[ODACHOOPS]

> > not one player from Guilford, W&L, Roanoke or VWC is anywhere on King's level...

I'm not quite buying that one yet.

not buying that quite yet? who would you recommend? 19.3 points and 5.3 rebounds while shooting 52 percent. im not saying other teams dont have good players...im just saying that they dont have players that are on that level...

[hasanova]

... especially after Macon wins the regular season title. But not one player from Guilford, W&L, Roanoke or VWC is anywhere on King's level...if they released vote totals he would hands down finish in the top two vote-getters for POY. If I remember correctly, Justin Call won the award years ago after playing for a very average Emory and Henry team...

Good evening, ODACHOOPS.  Do you think RMC is a lock to win the title? ... It still seems very much up for grabs.  I'm with sludge, I'm also not buying the statement that "not one player from Guilford, W&L, Roanoke or VWC is on King's level."  I hear the "hands down" comment a lot when folks talk about Turner King ... I agree he's a great player, but I predict the votes will be spread out quite a bit.  It does not appear that it's going to be a unanimous or lop-sided award as it's been the past few years.  Justin Call is an excellent example of a POY from a non-contending team, but I think someone's got to step up big-time until the regular season ends.  If a player (or players) literally puts a team on his back and leads them to a great finish, then they'll solidify the ballot consideration they're going to get from the voters.

[2RMCFans]

We hadn't heard about Turner King's mother's death and feel deep sympathy for him and his family.  When Coach Rhoades' father died this fall, it saddened our campus and town immeasurably.  King and Rhoades are amazing to be able to work through such severe losses with so much strength.

Our coaches and players are taking nothing for granted regarding where R-MC will finish the season and are working hard to maintain their strengths.  In all candor, it's hard to think of a player more deserving of POY than Justin Short.  He has had an incredible college career and as a senior, is truly an outstanding leader.  His poise and overall playing skills (his 3.4 avg assists per game is also one of the best individual stats in the league) are a key factor in the successes we've had this season.   

When Randolph played here recently, they appeared to be very well-coached.  A couple of their starters had good performances that night; and, someone came off the bench in the final minute and hit a 3 from the parking lot.  It was amazing to see the sheer number of players on their team since their women's team has historically had small rosters.  They're obviously doing some serious recruiting and that will pay off for them as they mature into the ODAC.

[HSCfan]

The POY debate is certainly an interesting one, and I will go ahead and say that my top-three candidates at this point would have to be:

1) Justin Short (R-MC): 19.3 ppg, 3.6 apg, 1.7 spg, .394 3fg%
2) Turner King (H-SC): 19.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, .514 fg%, .395 3fg%
3) Curtis Peery (RC): 18.1 ppg, 7.2 rpg, .556 fg%

Obviously, I left a few names off the list that people might bring up. Just looking at the scoring charts, Clay Henson is one name that I'm sure some would toss around. He averages 19.2 ppg and 3.0 apg, but is not shooting a great percentage and is the large beneficiary of 6-10 Tyler Sanborn, who demands a lot of attention. I feel that coaches voting will take that into consideration, the fact that keeping Sanborn from catching deep and getting on the offensive boards is objective number one, and this will hurt Henson. Dominic Trawick? An obvious first teamer at 15.0 ppg and 4.6 rpg, but again, a volume shooter that isn't shooting a great percentage, and really shares the spotlight with Michael Oblitey, another very talented player. As far as POY goes, I think those five names are the favorites right now with the top three being the aforementioned.

Short is the odds on favorite at this point. Although he has arguably the best supporting cast, he is the fuel to the Macon fire, and as he goes, so do the Jackets. His body of work speaks for itself and with his team in the driver's seat for the No. 1 seed (still a few roadblocks on the horizon), he is, and should be, the favorite.

Again, I have King at No. 2 because when it comes to POY voting, coaches will take into consideration their own gameplanning, and aside from Short, I really feel that coaches do not gameplan to stop any other player more than King. If he can't score, the Tigers theoretically have no chance, and time and time again this year (excluding the last two games, his only two bad games of the year [and one of those he still managed double figures]) he has excelled despite the double teams and no-help denial responsibilities of his defenders. His shooting percentage is ridiculous, as he has the best FG percentage of any guard in the ODAC and even a better percentage than some starting post players who shoot from 8-feet and in!

I like Curtis Peery at No. 3, again, becuase of his importance to his team. When Roanoke was getting off to their fast start, he won ODAC Player of the Week something like three or four times. The Maroons work through their big man, and he has been one of the most consistent and reliable players in the league this year.

I am a bit biased but I do believe that Short will win, and is deserving of, POY honors. However, I happen to agree somewhat with ODACHOOPS in that King should be a pretty clear No. 2 based on him delivering in 17 of 19 games this year despite being the ONLY option on his team. Henson has help, Peery has a bit of help with Felix, Fields combines with Hassell and Dixon to produce fireworks...but King shoulders the burden and is tied for the league lead in scoring without surrendering shooting percentage (no Iverson effect). He is also one of the league's best rebounders at 6-2. Again, just a homer's opinion Not afraid to admit it, especially at the point where I'm looking for anything to keep H-SC relevant

[sludge]

> > not one player from Guilford, W&L, Roanoke or VWC is anywhere on King's level...

I'm not quite buying that one yet.

not buying that quite yet? who would you recommend? 19.3 points and 5.3 rebounds while shooting 52 percent. im not saying other teams dont have good players...im just saying that they dont have players that are on that level...

I think that guys like Peery and  Henson are on Turner King's level. 
King would probably get my vote right  now for ODAC POY;  everyone can have an off game or two, especially on the road.
I'd put Short second. 

Of course, I've seen King this season but haven't yet seen Short this year.  That omission will be fixed shortly!

[hasanova]

> > not one player from Guilford, W&L, Roanoke or VWC is anywhere on King's level...

I'm not quite buying that one yet.

not buying that quite yet? who would you recommend? 19.3 points and 5.3 rebounds while shooting 52 percent. im not saying other teams dont have good players...im just saying that they dont have players that are on that level...

I  think that guys like Peery and  Henson are on Turner King's level.   King would probably get my vote right  now for ODAC POY;  everyone can have an off game or two, especially on the road.
I'd put Short second. 

Of course, I've seen King this season but haven't yet seen Short this year.  That omission will be fixed shortly!

I'm glad you're coming Saturday, sludge.  It'll be a great game ... makes me wish Ben had another year of eligibility!  lol

[hasanova]

Henson is definitely a key player for the Quakers, but he does put up a lot of shots.   Even when he gets 13-17 points there are several 5 of 15 and 3 of 11 lines mixed in there.   When he gets hot, if even for just five minutes, however, he can be a game-changing player.   With that said, I think there are three Quakers in the top ten players in the league:  Henson, Sanborn and Bonner.  I don't think any of them are this year's POY, but I think they'd start for any coach in the league.  Fortunately for Guilford, at least one of them has had a hot hand in almost every game.

[Jacketlawyer]

. . . . .with the Tigers' team bus getting lost on the way to Randolph and showing up 30 minutes prior to tip-off

How'd this happen?  You guys having been going to the former R-MWC for generations!!!

Seriously, though, I think the Tigers will improve.  You've got guys on the team with tournament experience and this counts for quite a bit.  Anyone who looks over Hampden-Sydney is rolling dice.  And as I've said before, there's plenty of hoops yet to be played.

[jdubyadubya]

Why would a team like EMU embarrass itself by beating another team by 67 points? What's the point? There was this high school team in Texas that beat another team 100 to 0. Their coach was fired! Talk about building some fluff into your schedule. Ridiculous!

[baselinejam]

Why would a team like EMU embarrass itself by beating another team by 67 points? What's the point? There was this high school team in Texas that beat another team 100 to 0. Their coach was fired! Talk about building some fluff into your schedule. Ridiculous!

Since I didn't see or listen to the game; its hard to judge. No one played more thqan 20 minutes.  WBC had a huge # of TO's & EMU had 31 A's vs 9 TO's. EMU shot lights out & WBS was horrible. It is difficult to blame 2nd & 3rd team kids enjoying an opportunity to score. However, the most important question(at least to me) is why would an AD schedule this game?