MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[hasanova]

Interesting conversation ... thanks to all who've chimed in!

I can't speak to the situation for every ODAC or USASAC school, but I do have a few observations:

-Guilford's transformation has now been 10 years and seen two coaches.  Butch Estes (1999-2003) was an early phase to get different players and change the competitive spirit.  Tom Palombo (2003-present) is the long-range plan ... he's been the primary difference.
-Guilford's facilities are good ... not DIII's best ... but good.  Ragan-Brown is architecturally distinctive, it's on campus and it has good DIII capacity (2500).  The last ten years have seen a lot of improvements (new maple cushioned floor, new goals/supports, painting, overhead scoreboard, scorer's table, player's chairs and graphics ... things that catch the eye of a recruit and a fan.  (Brian Hamilton ... am I right?)
-Tradition.  Guilford's begun to more effectively use its earlier basketball success to its advantage ... if you break a record set by World B. Free, that's something!
-Success breeds success.  Clearly, the 2007 Elite 8 run, the three straight NCAA appearances and Ben Strong's POY award have helped create sustainable recruiting.  Good players want to go to a team that looks as though it's going to continue to be a winner!
-Ben Strong.  He came, he got better and he stayed four years.  Huge.
-Healthy rivalries.  For the longest time, it was "we play Guilford this weekend ... ho-hum".  Not any more.  GC gets up for Greensboro, VWC, HSC, RMC, Roanoke and others.   I bet some of the bigger MBB crowds at other venues this season were when the Quakers came to visit.
-Playing an early game on a more national stage.  Yes, they were all exhibitions, but the last four years, the Quakers have opened at Elon (2x), South Carolina and Davidson ... even winning one.  Recruits love that type of big-time experience and the players get better!

In my opinion, once you get past W&L, Guilford's on an academic and historical par with anyone in the ODAC.  The coaches can tell a recruit's parents "If your son comes to Guilford, he'll be in a beautiful environment and he'll get a great education.  And, oh yeah, he'll probably win a lot of games, too!"

[HSC85]

Brian,

I agree with you about the increased reputation of the ODAC helping all schools recruit better players.  It is up to the school, coaching staff and other things that are part of the package (cost) to actually win the recruiting battles.  Then it is up to the coach to get the players to perform.  I give great credit to Guilford and VWC for achieving great success. 

It is curious that the argument of reputation of the conference is discounted in basketball and is used extensively on the football boards.  Especially when talking about at large bids to the NCAA tournament. 

I think that many of us can agree that the better the ODAC teams do in the NCAA tournament be it basketball or football then the better the conference reputation.  If a recruit is getting mail and calls from several D3 schools that recruit will look at the school, conference, and schedule to get a first impression of the school.  When more than one team has success nationally then that conference is more attractive than one that does not have that success. 

My two children are both D3 athletes.  When the schools in D3 called they really pressed the case that the player had the  ability to playfor championships instead of playing at a higher level. 

Every player has different criterea when making their decision.  The sustained success of a conference regardless of the specific teams having that success helps all schools in recruiting.  In football the schools in the OAC all say that the conference gets two bids to the NCAA because of Mount Union's success.  The OAC is considered one of the best conferences in football because they win more championships than other conferences.  I don't know if you can quantify a reputation, but you have to place value on the reputation of being a stronger conference than one that is not as strong.

[78rmc]

As to the Pat/Brian topic, you're both right, it a question of degree.  'Rising tide raises all ships' for Brian's position, but it's a secondary reason for a team's success. 
For Pat's position, it is the coach's efforts that provides the primary reason for a team's success.

As to the VWC thug issue:  When a former VWC team captain and current college coach comes onto the court in an oversized NFL jersey over his team uniform, you've earned the label.  To me, it looked plan silly, immature, and foolish.  Not to mention the numerous other antics I've seen. 

It's also an issue of who's winning.  If a team acts that way and you're losing to them, it stings a little more.  Beat them, and it's sweet revenge.

[jdubyadubya]

78rmc - enough already. This is how it is: there's the ODAC and then there's VWC. It will always be this way unfortunately. Let's just see how VWC does in the tournament. Win or lose, they really pulled themselves up at the end of the season. For those of you who support teams in the ODAC but not VWC, go focus your efforts on DI. They need you more there!   

[78rmc]

Hey, I did not start this topic, no need to call me out.  I'm just trying to explain why others have this perception.  You may think it's unearned, I was simply providing one specific incident that left me with that impression.  I have many others, if you care to hear them.

[jdubyadubya]

78rmc - you are, nonetheless, perpetuating the stereotype. My son played for the Marlins and he was anything but stereotypical. He was, rather, a good basketball player who loved the game.

[78rmc]

78rmc - you are, nonetheless, perpetuating the stereotype. My son played for the Marlins and he was anything but stereotypical. He was, rather, a good basketball player who loved the game.

Yes,  you are correct, he was a fine example for the VWC team and the ODAC, certainly a player that I would have been proud to have in a black and lemon uniform.

[jdubyadubya]

78rmc - interestingly, both RMC and HSC passed on him. When we visited RMC, Coach Rhoades was unavailable but the janitor showed us around; when we visited HSC Coach Shaver was too busy to see him. In both instances, we had an appointment! But, that's ancient history now.

[hasanova]

78rmc - interestingly, both RMC and HSC passed on him. When we visited RMC, Coach Rhoades was unavailable but the janitor showed us around; when we visited HSC Coach Shaver was too busy to see him. In both instances, we had an appointment! But, that's ancient history now.

Obviously, then, the RMC janitor failed to sweep your son off his feet.

[ODACHOOPS]

And just like it will forever be the ODAC and then VWC..it will forever be VWC fans playing the pity card and NEVER acknowledging nor taking responsibility for their actions.. the facts are facts.  I have never heard ONCE on this board a VWC poster saying "yes flicking off the student section was not a respectful and sportsmanlike gesture."  Instead its "well both teams were talking back and forth and the student section provoked it and......"  Actions speak louder then words and I think this topic/situation is a perfect example of that.  Just sitting back and watching VWC is all that is needed, their actions will do all the talking.                                            

[HSCfan]

Obviously, then, the RMC janitor failed to sweep your son off his feet.

The hits just keep on coming! +K!

[jdubyadubya]

ODACHOOPS et. al. - Enough! I surrender. I'm done.

[HSC85]

Hasanova,

Thanks for the chuckle of the day.

[OdacSupporter]

I am new to this board, although I have been reading it for years, I have never written before.  So here's my two cents.  From the time VWC started to make an impact in the ODAC there has always been resentment.  Unfortunate but true.  VCW teams have always been given the cold shoulder and Coach Macedo rarely given the credit due him for what he has accomplished. Even winning a National Championship with a team no one thought could possibly win did not improve VWC's stature.  Sure, he has had to recruit locally because VWC does not have the endowments that some of the other ODAC schools do.  Yes, His players are mostly from poorer neighborhoods where not all the social graces have been taught.  The players come with baggage and problems , but they can do one thing.  Play basketabll.  Macedo gives them the chance to get a college degree and a better life.  I for one, think he has done a remarkable job.  The ODAC is a better conference for having VWC and Coach Macedo.  VWC will never fit the mold of HSC  or RMC.  Two fine schools with reputations to match.  VWC has threatend their storied  reputations of being the best basketball schools and a lot of people don't like that.  Yet all the ODAC schools have become better.  All of them..Look at Guiford's last 3-4 years and Washington and Lee's play in the ODAC tournament this year.   Roanoke  had a great year and many more will follow.   When  Mike Rhodes and  David Macedo entered the league as young coaches, I think that's when the changes began.  That was 10 years ago for Mike and 9 for David.  The changes will continue and the best is yet to come . With many new coaches this year I look forward to an even greater future for the ODAC.  Whichever ODAC teams make the "dance" each year,  we should support them.  That's what being an ODAC fan is all about.  I wish both Guilford and VWC the best of luck this year.  Next year, it could be any team in the ODAC  playing for a national championship, and that is really exciting to think about. 

[matty]

First of all i want to say i've enjoyed all the comments (even the negative ones) and i respect each and every one of you and your opinions as i have for the six years i've followed this discussion board while not commenting often but throwing in a few posts here and there. i haven't posted much because i feel if i'm gonna post something i want it to be worth saying and two i don't want to repeat anything others have said.
Second, obviously this conversation has slanted towards the reputation of vwc. I would guess that because what happened at the odac tournament. In other words if vwc gets beat by macon in the quarters which would have maintained the order of the odac with guilford and rmc going to the tournament, if that happens then we're probably not having this conversation.

But since we are having this conversation...as late as this may be coming as a former VWC student and while not an oncourt member but still a member nonetheless of the basketball team i will publically apologize to fellow odac representatives of this board and admit that yes the antics of the marlin team on the court if there all true are unacceptable and unsportsmanlike...i will say i haven't really seen some the things an earlier post was describing due to my lack of attention span or didn't happen exactly like described. The only ones i will vouch for were the jersey worn by a former player (doino-if you're not going to say his name i will) i don't know why he wore it, it could probably be viewed as unprofessional but i didn't really understand a lot things doino did but he was fun to watch. to this day i haven't seen many players play with that much raw emotion.  And the other being the 07 NCAA Championship where the marlin team didn't get up and shake the Amherst teams' hand. I agree that was pathetic and made me feel embarrassed to be a fan and alumnus of vwc.
Now the sydney game on saturday night i know got pretty chippy and i'm sorry as a vwc fan about that too. Other than the technical fouls i enjoyed that game very much and have utmost respect for hsc and their program. Again maybe b/c of my lack attention span i didn't see meyers actions but Hamiliton if you say he did i'm sorry about that the only thing i can say about it is meyers is a freshman and chalk his actions up to foolish youthful exuberance maybe he'll mature more in the next three years.
And as for Carlton and maybe other marlin members of this years team i do wish they'd find some more humility but i can't control what they do, all i can do is talk to coach about it the next time i see him (he lives right around the corner from my parents house so i do see him quite a bit when i go home)
So there's my apology. i myself will try and do better to be more respectful but at the same time i will still defend VWC b/c that's my team and more importantly its where i went to school and earned my degree. Anyway, thanks to anyone who reads this i will try to post more in the future, sorry i seem to have a tendency to write these book length posts. i'll try to keep it shorter next time.