MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[oldfish]

Just my 2 cents (the last 2 in my 401K)

Q: Is there a correlation between the current success of VWC/GC and the past success of HSC and/or RMC?

I feel very strongly that the answer to this question is....maybe.  As someone who played (sparingly) in the ODAC and was recruited (using the term loosely) by multiple DIII schools both in and out of the ODAC, my overall impression of the leagues played a minor role in my decision making process.  At a maximum I would say that I was aware that multiple teams in the ODAC had the opportunity to be ranked nationally which in turn gave me the impression that it was a top tier conference in DIII.

The best analogy that I can come up with in the D1 world is Memphis and Conf-usa.  While this is a far more extreme version of the disparity that existed in the ODAC in the 90's I think that the situation is somewhat similar.   It's my humble opinion that a school like UCF may get additional consideration from a recruit based on the fact that they are in the same conf with a school that regularly "plays on the big stage".  I'm just not sold on how applicable this is to the DIII level.   

Part 2 to follow....

[hasanova]

And just like it will forever be the ODAC and then VWC..it will forever be VWC fans playing the pity card and NEVER acknowledging nor taking responsibility for their actions.. the facts are facts.  I have never heard ONCE on this board a VWC poster saying "yes flicking off the student section was not a respectful and sportsmanlike gesture."  Instead its "well both teams were talking back and forth and the student section provoked it and......"  Actions speak louder then words and I think this topic/situation is a perfect example of that.  Just sitting back and watching VWC is all that is needed, their actions will do all the talking.                                            

Well, ODACHOOPS, with all due respect, that's not completely true.  I've been posting on this board for some time and I've attended about ten games involving VWC.  I try to avoid absolute statements and I've seen ample evidence to question your highlighted use of the word NEVER.  There are many VWC fans (and players and coaches) who do not approve of everything the Marlins men's basketball team has done ... and are introspective enough to publicly acknowledge as much.  I love my two adult children, for example, but haven't always approved of everything they've done ... and I tell them.  In all honesty, can't we all say that about our own families, friends, teams, coworkers ... and, for that matter, ourselves?  Those without sin, as the saying goes, should cast the first stone.

Yeah, there have been times I've become annoyed, dismayed, frustrated, etc. when watching the Marlins.  Call me old school, I guess.  It is, however, quite unfair to paint every Marlin player and their fans with the same brush ... especially when the image we see is sometimes our own.  VWC belongs.  Their teams have helped us all be better.  Their fans are understandably loyal, but that doesn't mean they idolize everything their players do.          

[FortyFour]

Well said, 'Nova.

[hasanova]

Well said, 'Nova.

Thanks.  I hope the Marlins do really well in the tournament.

[hasanova]

Obviously, then, the RMC janitor failed to sweep your son off his feet.

The hits just keep on coming! +K!

Thanks.  I had an epiphany. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Obviously, then, the RMC janitor failed to sweep your son off his feet.

The hits just keep on coming! +K!

Thanks.  I had an epiphany. 

They've got medication that can clear that up.

[DeWayneCarter]

Man, if everybody is all up in arms about how "easy" it is for Macedo to get players into his school because of "lower standards"..... you better hope that Virginia Wesleyan, as a school, doesn't get ever get a large endowment or can offer more financial aid to students because once it does, it'll be over. Macedo may be able to get players in, but he has a hard time keeping them in because the cost of the school is too much to bear for some of these players. There have been a few players that started this season with VWC that are no longer there because they couldn't afford to attend the school, and the same thing happened last season. Since VWC is the baby school in the ODAC, they aren't going to have the resources of the Randolph Macons and the Hampden Sydneys. But despite all that, it speaks to Macedo's recruiting and coaching abilities that the same VWC team has made it to the NCAA tournament 5 years in a row, won a national title, was a national runner up, and claimed 2 ODAC titles during his tenure.

Now, I don't condone things like flicking off fans.... but trash talking? Come on man..... that's part of the game!!!!! Guys are gonna talk on the court!! You gotta get in the other team's heads!!!!

[eagleslam]

Just getting caught up...

1.  It is fine if you do not prefer VWC's "antics".  Personally, I do not like some of the things they do.  Some things they do I couldn't care less about.  Doino wore a jersey.  If this was when the players were in warm-up lines, I could see it as immature.  But, as I have interpreted it before, he wore it during a shootaround before warm-ups.  If that is the case, so what?  If you think trash-talking is wrong, then you should stop following sports.  If you dislike them so much, there is a solution... stop going to see them play.

2.  Macedo may not have a huge recruiting budget, but he doesn't need one either.  The Virginia Beach area is a hotbed for talent.  Richmond and Northern Virginia are as well, but nothing like the beach.  Maybe the entrance standards are not as high, but they still have to make the grades once they get there.  Didn't Norman Hassell just get booted because he didn't?  Maybe some of the player's "attitude" comes from the area where they live?  If you don't show a little "attitude" around the playgrounds and during in-season games at the beach, you are considered weak.  I have helped run summer team camps that have had a lot of teams from that area.  Every single one of them had an "attitude".

3.  Lastly, no one has to directly root for an opposing team, but you shouldn't directly root against them, either.  At least during this time of year.  If you think that your team's success, especially in recruiting, is helped by other team's notoriety, why would you root directly against them?

[DeWayneCarter]

Man... if i knew how, I'd give you karma lol That's exactly what I think about the whole situation.

[hasanova]

Man... if i knew how, I'd give you karma lol That's exactly what I think about the whole situation.

Hang on to that thought until you have 200 posts ... and karma will reveal itself to you. 

[sludge]

Man... if i knew how, I'd give you karma lol That's exactly what I think about the whole situation.

I go away for a few days and the topic is..... VWC!  Who woulda thunk it?

In recent years, nobody has had their season ended more often by VWC than has Guilford.  Due to this, it was a special pleasure to beat 'em two times this year and 3 times last year.

I've also been bugged at times by the impressive amount of VWC trash talk, and I find it creepy that VWC has often conducted its warmup partly on the opposition's half of the court, when both teams are on the floor.   And dissing Amherst was dumb. 
OK on all that.

I didn't know Macedo had a limited recruiting budget.  To a Guilford fan, the VWC student center/gym looks like a piece of luxury work.  That huge fishtank doesn't come cheap.  The overall campus looks good too.  I figured VWC was doing ok for budget, but I could be wrong.  I'm sure the facilities help the recruiting, at any rate.

And is there a better big-game coach?  Man, you'd be hard pressed.

I thought eagleslam gave a great backgrounder on the roots of the attitude stuff.  Thanks for that prespective.

Got your back on that one, DeWayne.  I added a karma for eagleslam.

As for me, in the NCAA, go Guilford and VWC.  Go ODAC!

[oldfish]

Part 2 of my rant...

(Full disclosure: I typed up a longer version of this post yesterday but my second rate VWC education didn't teach me how to type and I accidentally hit something on the keyboard which erased all of my hard work. I KNEW I should have gone to RMC!!!!) 

Q:  Why do the VWC fans have such a problem with the "thugs from the beach" label when it's so clearly true?

I have a problem with the label and the way that VWC is perceived and treated because I don't believe it's warranted. 

thug  NOUN:
1. A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum
2. One of a band of professional assassins formerly active in northern India who worshiped Kali and offered their victims to her.

If anyone thinks that the "thugs form the beach" moniker started with coach Macedo or when Brandon Adair got to VWC hasn't been around the ODAC very long.  My association with VWC began in 1992 and I have close friends who were there beginning in 1990.  Since that time, there has been a general lack of respect for VWC.  Have VWC players had lapses in judgment over the last 20 years...yes.  Is there occasional grandstanding (sticking out the tongue, looking at the bench)...absolutely.  But the only truly regrettable event in my mind was the 2007 handshake incident...that's it.  Did that show a temporary lapse in judgment and at worst poor sportsmanship...YES.  Was that "thuggish"...no.

I'm really interested to know how many of you who characterize VWC as the "Thugs from the Beach" (TFTB) have ever had a negative face to face encounter with a VWC player. You know, David Doino and his fashion choices seem to get a lot of attention when this is brought up.  The fact that he wore an NFL jersey in warm ups is at worst comical!  Hardly Thuggish!  If you take off David's Jersey and put him on HSC you all would have typed your fingers off about how hard he plays the game and his win at all costs attitude. It is amazing that another school would hire a "thug" like David and put him in charge of their basketball recruiting...NC Wesleyan is hard core like that yo!

When an RMC player gets T'd he is just being "demonstrative"!!!!  The same conduct from a VWC player makes them a poor sport.  I was at the VWC/HSC game a few weeks ago and a certain HSC star player repeatedly dropped the F bomb as loud as he could when something didn't go his way...but that's just because he cares!

And lastly...Anyone who thinks that VWC is successful because it's "easier" to win there is just an idiot.  In my life I have been fortunate to spend some time with people who are unbelievably successful at their chosen profession.  Not one of those people has ever implied that someone else achieved success because they were "lucky" or it was "easier".   Anyone who suggests that someone else has success because they have it easier just comes off sounding jealous and bitter.

[HSCfan]

Unfortunately, poor sportsmanship has become a growing problem in all sports, including collegiate athletics. Just the other day Wake Forest's Jeff Teague dunked all over a Maryland player and proceeded to beat his chest and yell in the guy's face...directly in front of an official. Nothing was done.

This morning watching SportsCenter, Lebron James hits a deep three from the corner and proceeds to stare down and talk to the entire Milwaukee Bucks bench as he passed. Nothing was done.

It's just a reality, albeit a sour reality, that the era of self-promotion and embarrassing your opponent has entered sport. Not all players, teams or coaches tolerate nor practice such behavior. Not all people associated with the VWC program tolerate nor practice such behavior. Some players and teams appear to do it more than others (which is what I believe has stemmed these ill feelings towards VWC) and it is doubly tough to deal with when your team loses to a team that acts a certain way.

I must admit, as we all have, that I have seen and experienced my share of "VWC moments." They were and are unpleasant, but bottom line, the only way to stop that stuff is to beat the Marlins, something that, to VWC's credit, they did not let happen this past weekend.

VWC picked itself up off the canvas and scored a late round KO of its ODAC Tournament foes, and being the lowest seed to ever win the tourney is an accomplishment (an accomplishment they took from my beloved 2007 Tigers!).

[jdubyadubya]

sludge - there's a reason why they call VWC's athletic facility "The Batten Center." Frank Batten and his wife gave a huge gift to build most of it. That's just good fund raising and President Greer is very good at it. 

[scottiedoug]

I have been following versions of this VWU discussion as a non-ODAC lurker for a few years now and, having no personal information, have not written anything.  HSCfan's comment that "the only way to stop that stuff is to beat the Marlins," demands a reaction, though.  There is another way "to stop that stuff" (and I am not talking about just VWU but any college manifestation, even at D1).  The head coach can stop it by running a program where it is not tolerated from players who want actually to play.  There is a reason why the players of some teams just do not taunt etc. and it is not that they are less "spirited" or "competitive."