MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[Mr. Ypsi]

Oh, I didn't think Ben was a one-man team (though he was a helluva start! ); I was asking specifically in the context of Guilford getting this string of very good, very tall players that virtually no other d3 teams seem to be able to (consistently) get.

IWU had the best of them all with future NBA All-Star Jack Sikma (though, in deference to Pat, I hasten to add that while IWU was in d3, they opted for NAIA in the post-season, so Jack is iffy as a d3 player), but we've never gotten anyone anywhere near that good and that big since.

I'm wondering what magic you're pullin' to get Strong, Sanborn, and now (presumably) Best?   (And I say 'presumably' not doubting he's going to Guilford; just that he's unproven as yet.)

[hasanova]

Oh, I didn't think Ben was a one-man team (though he was a helluva start! ); I was asking specifically in the context of Guilford getting this string of very good, very tall players that virtually no other d3 teams seem to be able to (consistently) get.

IWU had the best of them all with future NBA All-Star Jack Sikma (though, in deference to Pat, I hasten to add that while IWU was in d3, they opted for NAIA in the post-season, so Jack is iffy as a d3 player), but we've never gotten anyone anywhere near that good and that big since.

I'm wondering what magic you're pullin' to get Strong, Sanborn, and now (presumably) Best?   (And I say 'presumably' not doubting he's going to Guilford; just that he's unproven as yet.)

In that context (tall players), I guess transfers Aron McMillan and Brandon Clifford got it started in Butch Estes' 4-year stint before Tom Palombo.  They started in DI and then finished in DIII, so they were not 4-year players at Guilford.   Strong, Sanborn, Stafford and Best are all DI height players who maybe were either a bit thin in HS or lacked really tough competition.  Guilford's been able to get them and work them in slowly for a year while putting them in Big Man camps and on conditioning programs.  Sanborn and Strong responded terrifically ... the jury's still out on Stafford and, of course, Best.

[rmc1982]

  "82" I would not think that Coach Davis had much to do with getting anyone this year. I think anyone coming in will be the result of Coach Byers' hard work .  Hope things work out well for RMC.

DonHo-I really had assumed that but I'm "in the loop" with alot of my old SAE frat bro's-most of them B-ball players...and I have strangely heard NOTHING  as to who they got to commit.....And I certainly didn't mean to leave out JD Byers, who does a tremendous job for us-Its just weird not to hear anything....

[donho]

 "82" think with the timing of the change not much will be said this summer. They have some nice players coming. No really tall players but they will win their share of games.

[jeloesel]

I had some time available last night so I went back and read the comments by tigerfanalso, Brian Hamilton, 3sdown, and JWW about scheduling, especially the January 6 RMC @ HSC game.  After a little study and reflection, I have some observations and a proposal for your consideration.

I studied the schedule for ODAC conference games for 20090-10 and compared it with various team schedules going back to 2002-03 that are archived on D3hoops.  Maybe Brian Hamilton doesn't see major changes in conference scheduling, but I see some striking changes:
•   instead of 24 regular season games there are now 25;
•   instead of 10 conference members there are now 11 members;
•   instead of 18 conference games there are now 16;
•   Instead of home-and-home games with each conference opponent there is now an unbalanced schedule with home-and-home games with two unchanging rivals, home-and-home games against four opponents, single season games against four opponents (with rotation of single and double game opponents every two years, and adjustments for the odd number of teams);
•   instead of playing three or four conference games per week, there is now consistent Wednesday-Saturday scheduling (with two byes in the 18 game slots);
•   elimination of the Saturday/Sunday games (dreaded by nearly everyone except JWW and a few other parents)
•   non-conference games are distributed more evenly during the beginning part of the season;
•   the ODAC men's tournament has been moved back a week to run concurrently with the women's tournament;
•   instead of only eight teams, now all teams get into conference tournament;
•   instead of an annual conference schedule, it is basically a biennial schedule.

Most of the changes have been met with favorable silence from the commentators on this thread.  However, when you distribute the games more evenly during the season--which nearly everyone thinks is a good idea--you wind up playing more non-conference and conference games when the schools are not in session.  Of the 18 conference game slots, four occur when most of the schools are not in session--the Saturday after Thanksgiving and the first three Saturday-Wednesday-Saturday slots in January.  Nearly everyone complains about playing games when students aren't on campus, but I haven't heard anyone advocate going back to three or four games per week when students are on campus, or starting up classes earlier in January, or holding games during exams, or reducing the number of conference members, or playing only one conference game per year.  Most of us prefer complaining to advocating solutions.

The ODAC has incorporated rivalry games into the unbalanced schedule, with each of the eleven teams playing two officially designated rivals twice.  If you check the schedule for last year and this year, the ODAC has already set aside the last two games of the conference schedule for rivalry games, including February 17 HSC @ RMC, just as Brian Hamilton and tigerfanalso want.  

What about the first round of rivalry games?  It appears to me when looking at the schedule that the ODAC office decided to start play generally with the first round of four home-and-home opponents, followed by the first of  two rivalry games, then playing the four single games, then moving on to the second round of home-and-home games, concluding with the second round of two rivalry games.  (It gets a little more complicated than I outlined because of the byes and odd number of teams.)  Seems like common sense to me, and I think that follows tigerfanalso's suggestion of holding the rivalry game at the end of the first and second cycle of home-and-home games. However, all schools aren't back is session until the seventh slot for games!  It is inevitable that some rivalry games will take place when schools are not in session if the conference season starts with the first round of home-and-home games.  Assuming that we don't want to fix the problem by playing only one round of conference games, or reducing the number of teams in the ODAC, or starting up the second semester earlier, or playing three or four games per week, the solution that comes to mind is to play four "single games" at the beginning of the season instead of in the middle of the season.  That would push the first round of rivalry games into the middle of January, when everyone is in session.  Of course there is a down side to this arrangement as well, but maybe you all can debate the pros and cons.

BTW, when checking the D3hoops archives I was surprised that the Hope/Calvin, Williams/Amherst, and Wooster/Wittenberg games are not generally at the end of their respective conference schedules.  My memory was also refreshed that nine members in the NESCAC only play one round of conference games and the 10 members of the NCAC play 16 games in an unbalanced schedule instead of 18 games in a balanced home-and-home schedule.  

If anyone wants a copy of the 2009-10 conference schedule, just email me and I'll send you what I have.  JELoesel@aol.com

[jdubyadubya]

Good grief, Jimmy, a veritable tome . I guess I'm one of those guys you are talking about: "Most of us prefer complaining to advocating solutions." Oh well. Now with Shenandoah entering the ranks of ODAC football in 2012 could they be far behind for the rest of the sports? Who stays, who leaves? ODAC can't get any bigger.

[jeloesel]

JWW,
I'm as likely as anyone to complain rather than offer a solution.  I know you and most everyone that addressed the scheduling issue personally and I have great respect for the contributions all of you make here on the ODAC thread.  The HSC/RMC game doesn't lend itself to calm, dispationate analysis by the fans of either team.  Since I don't have a dog in that hunt, I thought I'd at least try.  Sorry about the tome.  I had my wife, the English major, review my post before I sent it.  She said it's too long.  I said it's a complicated issue.  Not twitter material.

[jdubyadubya]

After reviewing my senior thesis titled "The Religious & Spiritual Development of T.S. Eliot as Seen in His Two Works "The Waste Land" and "Ash Wednesday," my advisor Dr. King remarked "you have barely scratched the surface." You have barely scratched the surface of the scheduling issues facing ODAC. I guess they do the best job they can. Heck, I wouldn't want that job. 

[sludge]

It's good to see we haven't given up on classy analogies around here.

[hasanova]

It's good to see we haven't given up on classy analogies around here.

It's also good to see you're still checking in from time to time!  Hope you'll make a few games this season.

[jdubyadubya]

Ah, I miss those days...particlularly the games in Ragan-Brown

[hasanova]

Ah, I miss those days...particlularly the games in Ragan-Brown

If the Quakers got up for only one game a year, it was the Marlins.  I always felt a little (notice, I only said "little"!) bit sorry for VWC having to make the E&H/Guilford weekend run.    There have been some great games!

[hasanova]

New poll. 

[hasanova]

New poll.  

Regarding the new ODAC poll (as it relates to the preseason DIII Top 25), I don't see how the ODAC could possibly have no teams ranked.  Guilford, for example, is coming off a very strong season and will be, arguably, even stronger than they were in 2008-09.

[sludge]

I saw a bunch of Guilford players play a Triad Pro-Am game in Winston Salem last night.  Man, they looked good!  Outstanding features were three point shooting, playmaking and hustle.  They managed to hold their own in the paint also.