MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[hasanova]

Many thanks to xbcdad for stopping by yesterday and saying hello in GC's hospitality room.  It's always nice to meet posters and put faces and names with the online persona!  Good luck to EMU in the NCAA postseason!

[ODACHOOPS]

Tony Shaver definitely raised the bar for the entire ODAC and is strongly responsible for the talent jump across the ODAC both individually and with teams as a whole.  However even though his tenure wasn't as long as Shaver's, one must not forget what Smith did during his time there as well.  Yes many will argue that his 2003-2004 season was accomplished with Shaver's team, but anyone who knows anything about sports knows that it is just as hard to win games when you're on top and excepted to win then it is when you're not.  In my opinion it's even harder because the bull eye is twice as big night in and night out.  With that said Smith won 2 ODAC championships in 5 years, that's a pretty impressive stretch.  He also coached during the era of a national championship odac team, a national finalist odac team and two national players of the year, that's not a typical 5 year stretch by any means. 

I agree that this year's freshman class (obviously minus George) along with the past few have been much weaker and less talented then the ones of Randall, Monroe and Wilson as well as Murray, Prehmus, Kaase.  I have no doubt that Vick and company will continue to raise the bar and talent level of recruits year after year, I just hope that comes sooner rather than later.

Yes the Tigers had many close games this year and several against top 25 teams, which is a very encouraging sign as they move forward.  However we all know that at the end of the day it's all about #'s, as in wins and losses.

[y_jack_lok]

One of my brothers taught me a new word last year ... hermeneutics ... it comes from Hermes and his thoughts on religion, but it also applies to sports.  Basically, it discusses how two biblical passages/events can be seen in totally different ways by people reading or seeing the exact same thing ... both persons are good, reasonable people, but both are convinced they're right! 

This is a very insightful and very apt analogy.

[donho]

  The remarks about the T called on EMU got me to thinking,so I asked some questions and the answer I received is as follows; It is kind of like the continuation rule where if a T is signaled the play continues to completion then the whistle is blown and the T foul is assessed. My understanding is that said ref signaled the T and left play be completed,therefore lag time between signal and whistle blow.
  The above takes place only on a T called on the bench not when a T is called on a player during play.
  I am not a ref and do not know if this was explained to me correctly ,but it makes sense to me. Anybody have any imput?

[algernon]

With that said Smith won 2 ODAC championships in 5 years, that's a pretty impressive stretch.  He also coached during the era of a national championship odac team, a national finalist odac team and two national players of the year, that's not a typical 5 year stretch by any means.  

I agree that this year's freshman class (obviously minus George) along with the past few have been much weaker and less talented then the ones of Randall, Monroe and Wilson as well as Murray, Prehmus, Kaase.  I have no doubt that Vick and company will continue to raise the bar and talent level of recruits year after year, I just hope that comes sooner rather than later.

Coach Smith deserves some credit for the two ODAC championships.  However, he inherited a team that, the year before, was 28-2 going into a Final Four.  To get to the Final Four, the 2003 Tigers had to get past a WIAC team in the sectional that had just beaten d3hoops.com #1 Yellow Jackets (25-1) the night before.  In Salem, the Tigers lost the semifinal and then a nail-biter consolation game, thereby finishing with a 28-4 record (2 losses to RMC, a loss to Gustavus Adolphus, and a loss to Wooster).  That team was one of the ODAC's finest teams ever!  ..... and the core of the team (Monroe, Randall, Willson, and Holman) returned the following year.  Although they'd lost Gregory at point and a few other very strong players, they brought back 4 of their "starting 6." In my opinion, it would have taken a pretty bad coach to keep those guys out of the NCAAs in 2004.  I don't know how well you knew them, but Randall and Monroe were the embodiment of leadership.  I am sure that Coach Smith would agree that he inherited a truly great team his first year .... and those guys were also a tremendous help in recruiting the class of 2008.

The best talent during the next four years was either recruited while Shaver was coach ... or in the immediate aftermath and "aura" of the Final Four achievement.  During that 4-year period, the Tigers certainly won a whole lot of non-conference games, but they did not play the kind of non-conference opponents they have played this year (e.g. High Point, Ramapo, St. Mary's).  From 2004 to 2008, their ODAC conference record was only 40-32 (56%) and steadily got worse each year, to the point that the Tigers had a losing conference record in Smith's last year, when King, Prehmus, Kaase, and Murray were in the starting lineup but there was a lack of depth.  While the Tigers maintained winning overall records in 2004-2008 ... and there was a very bright and shining moment during their 2007 tournament run ... I wouldn't call those 4 years of Tiger history a terribly impressive stretch.  

I'm failing to make the connection of VWC's accomplishments in 2006 and 2007, or of Brandon Adair and Ben Strong as POYs, in the context of your comments about Smith's achievements.

This is a tangent, but I just want to note that Shaver's Tribe won their 20th game of the season last night.  William and Mary locked up the No. 3 seed and a first-round bye in the Colonial Athletic Association Tournament.  

[algernon]

Good luck to both the Quakers and Yellow Jackets today!  As an HSC fan, it's probably clear who I am rooting for ....   

I like the way that Pat and friends put the 4 ODAC teams into three sections of the bracket.  I hope that the NCAA will do something similar.

[ODACHOOPS]

To say "Coach Smith deserves some credit for winning 2 ODAC championships" is an understatement and not giving enough credit where credit is deserved.  Like I mentioned I know he inherited a very talented team his first year, one that I'm sure he would admit made his first year transition much easier.  However you still got to show up night in and night out and beat the teams your suppose to beat and then go down to Salem and avoid any upsets in route to winning the conference championship.  Regardless of the factors, he won 2 conference championships in 5 years.  I'm sure that is a stat that Dee Vick would love to have across the next 5 years. 

In regards to the "40-32 record and how it steadily got worse each year, to the point that the Tigers had a losing conference record in Smith's last year, when King, Prehmus, Kaase, and Murray were in the starting lineup."  The record part is true; from what I remember they weren't at times a consistent conference team.  However during Smith's final season in which they had a losing conference record like you mentioned, if I remember correctly they were without the services Murray for that entire year when he went down with a season ending injury.  Murray was a very key player who the year before had gone off on a tear in the odac tourney (think he averaged something ridiculous like 16ppg 15rpg) and was on pace for a tremendous sr yr, that hurt the Tigers in more ways than one.  This year's Tigers (a much more talented team then last year) were 1 game better in conference than last year and they picked up FOY and 15ppg 8rpg game in George?  That math doesn't add up.  Regardless if the ODAC was more talented this year than last.

The connection between vwc's national championship teams and the poy's during that stretch is that even with very talented teams/players during that era Smith and the Tigers still never finished a year below 500, something Vick has yet to accomplish in his 1st two years.  This year's team had King (in my opinion one of the biggest snubs from 1st team in the history of sports) as well as unanimous foy in George and several other talented players like Jesse and Mud and still didn't finish above 500?  My point is that yes the ODAC was very talented this year but it was just as talented in years past.

[D-BAT]

Kudos to ALL of ODAC teams for putting this conference on the MAP!

[donho]

 25 minutes to tip off.
Got some food and a brew, now lets have at it!

  Go Jackets!!

[donho]

 Which Jacket team will show up to play the second half??
Guilford up by 4 at the half.

[donho]

  Nice game played by the Quakers! They scored eighty but I think their defense is what won the game.

[sludge]

81 - 65 to the Quakers.  You've got to like the depth on this team.  Man, it is hard to win anything in the ODAC.

[Wolfpac]

Nice having people who can swing the ball and cut with a 6'10" guy who can play.  That is what the game is supposed to be about.

[therock]

And Lynchburg is the only one to hang within 10 points of Guilford in the ODAC Tournament. Never expected to say that, actually expected Lynchburg to get blown out in the quarterfinals. Guilford was without a doubt the best team of the bunch for this weekend. The best balanced team in the conference and role players like Brad Monroe came up big for the Quakers in all three games.

[donho]

 Hey did anyone catch the all-tourney team? I could not hear what was said. Thanks in advance for whomever posts.