MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[ODACHOOPS]

No one is arguing whether these websites exit or whether certain rules are "in writing on these websites." The argument is that the "average salaries" for ODAC assistant coaches are extremely skewed due to sports such as cross country, tennis and golf etc.  That is way it's crazy to think that any top assistant basketball coach in the ODAC makes anywhere near 10,000 like these websites show. 

Also I'm sure that the NCAA is extremely worried about counting every penny and making sure every figure reported is 100% accurate from the D3 ODAC schools.  I think they have just a few bigger fish to worry about.

[Pat Coleman]

ODACHOOPS:

That's not a filing for the NCAA, it's for the federal government. The stakes are a little higher for falsifying documents to the government.

[ODACHOOPS]

I was indeed insinuating more towards the NCAA, thanks for clarifying that one Pat.

However I still stand on my original argument and that is that you can't go by the "average salary" statistics when those are taking into account what 12-15 sports all of which aside from football are below basketball in the "pay" category. 

For example for a long time the assistant basketball coach at Hampden-Sydney was also the cross country coach.  The breakdown was you will get 35,000 total.  25,000 for being the assistant men's basketball coach and 10,000 for being the cross country coach.  That right their shows that the "average ODAC assistant salaries" are extremely skewed.  When you take the low salaries of coaches from golf, tennis, volleyball, swimming, cross country etc that lowers the average salary numbers.

[badcall!]

Odachoops is correct, the average salary reported by the data is far below what assistant basketball coaches are truly making.  The figures are skewed because institutions add additional duties to coaches to make them full time to boost salaries.  These additional duties and salaries are not represented in the data.  Excluding Lynchburg, EMU, E&H and Randolph, the average salaray for an assistant mens baskeball coach in the ODAC is about 25,000.  Throw in the fact that many of the institutions throw in room and board that is not represented in salary and the figures become even more hard to interpret.  I can tell you this as a lifelong valley resident and fan of the ODAC and close supporter of both BC and EMU, I found it crazy that the longtime assistant at BC with Leatherman was making more than some of the head coaches in the ODAC and the entire staff of EMU combined.  EMU has an assistant coaching stipend of $3,000.  Talk about getting it done with little or no assistance from the college-great job Kirby!

[Pat Coleman]

Have you looked closely at the actual data? Gordon and I have.

[badcall!]

Regarding the salaries everyone has to keep in mind also that it is an average of mens sports and womens sports, not just basketball.  Obviously a $1,500 stipend for an assistant womens vollebyall coach is going to bring down the average, etc.  On average the basketball assistants in the ODAC both mens and womens are some of the highest paid assistants in the sports arena of the ODAC due to the nature of being on the road so much recruiting.  The highest paid assistant coaches that I am aware of in the ODAC are at HSC where the two basketball assistants make about 38k each.  Now they do much more than just basketball to generate that salary but basketball is their primary focus.  Anyway they're probably all underpaid for the amount of work they do and time they spend on the road away from their families.  Most just use it as a stepping stone to hopefully bigger gigs that pay better.

[ODACHOOPS]

Badcall!

All very good points and all very accurate.  HSC does have the highest paid assistant coaches in the league and it is because they have a very high amount of money flowing in from alumni and boosters (money those alumni and boosters are specifically giving to basketball) they can hire more then 1 coach and also lure in coaches that may on paper have better job offers. 

Although because you went against what the "top dawgs" think and what they beleive to be the ONLY right answer it has coast you a Karma point.  I hate to see that but if it makes you feel any better you are welcome to have one of mine. 

[therock]

Regarding the salaries everyone has to keep in mind also that it is an average of mens sports and womens sports, not just basketball.  Obviously a $1,500 stipend for an assistant womens vollebyall coach is going to bring down the average, etc.  On average the basketball assistants in the ODAC both mens and womens are some of the highest paid assistants in the sports arena of the ODAC due to the nature of being on the road so much recruiting.  The highest paid assistant coaches that I am aware of in the ODAC are at HSC where the two basketball assistants make about 38k each.  Now they do much more than just basketball to generate that salary but basketball is their primary focus.  Anyway they're probably all underpaid for the amount of work they do and time they spend on the road away from their families.  Most just use it as a stepping stone to hopefully bigger gigs that pay better.

The averages I sighted were separated by the gender of the sport. An assistant women's volleyball coach's salary, therefore, would not effect the average of the men's assistant coaches...

[therock]

Odachoops is correct, the average salary reported by the data is far below what assistant basketball coaches are truly making.  The figures are skewed because institutions add additional duties to coaches to make them full time to boost salaries.  These additional duties and salaries are not represented in the data.  Excluding Lynchburg, EMU, E&H and Randolph, the average salaray for an assistant mens baskeball coach in the ODAC is about 25,000.  Throw in the fact that many of the institutions throw in room and board that is not represented in salary and the figures become even more hard to interpret.  I can tell you this as a lifelong valley resident and fan of the ODAC and close supporter of both BC and EMU, I found it crazy that the longtime assistant at BC with Leatherman was making more than some of the head coaches in the ODAC and the entire staff of EMU combined.  EMU has an assistant coaching stipend of $3,000.  Talk about getting it done with little or no assistance from the college-great job Kirby!

Each school is basically required by law to report ALL forms of compensation given to coaches. Room and board falls under the realm of compensation. Unless the school uses deceptive accounting strategies to make it appear that such compensation as room and board does not come out of athletic team budgets, then the athletic department is required to report that as compensation in the report.

[ODACHOOPS]

It is crazy to think that every school follows every rule to a T.  If you think "outside the box" and have a little creativity then finding ways to give a coach housing, put him on a meal plan, pay him a salary increase out of a summer camp etc isn't all that hard.  Teams must be creative and come up with unique ways to increase coaches "financial packages."  If not then you have the case of W&L where every two years you are having a turnover (whether it's intended to be like that or not) and that makes winning at a consistent rate much harder to do.  It's hard enough to lure in assistant coaches to the D3 level you must find ways to make that job look better then advertised. That may mean on campus living, meal plan, "assistant cross-country coach" aka monitor kids running for an hr everyday etc.

[Pat Coleman]

If your school's president is willing to put his signature on it for the federal government, I suppose you can cheat on that report. I wouldn't, however, and I wouldn't tolerate it from people under me.

[therock]

It is crazy to think that every school follows every rule to a T.  If you think "outside the box" and have a little creativity then finding ways to give a coach housing, put him on a meal plan, pay him a salary increase out of a summer camp etc isn't all that hard.  Teams must be creative and come up with unique ways to increase coaches "financial packages."  If not then you have the case of W&L where every two years you are having a turnover (whether it's intended to be like that or not) and that makes winning at a consistent rate much harder to do.  It's hard enough to lure in assistant coaches to the D3 level you must find ways to make that job look better then advertised. That may mean on campus living, meal plan, "assistant cross-country coach" aka monitor kids running for an hr everyday etc.

And all that would be required to be put on the DOE report as that is compensation for athletics employees...

[gordonmann]

It is crazy to think that every school follows every rule to a T.  If you think "outside the box" and have a little creativity then finding ways to give a coach housing, put him on a meal plan, pay him a salary increase out of a summer camp etc isn't all that hard.  Teams must be creative and come up with unique ways to increase coaches "financial packages."  If not then you have the case of W&L where every two years you are having a turnover (whether it's intended to be like that or not) and that makes winning at a consistent rate much harder to do.  It's hard enough to lure in assistant coaches to the D3 level you must find ways to make that job look better then advertised. That may mean on campus living, meal plan, "assistant cross-country coach" aka monitor kids running for an hr everyday etc.

I'm not sure whether or how the federal government audits what schools report.  Maybe schools can under report revenue by classifying the compensation differently.  But, practically speaking, what's the incentive to do that?  Why risk incurring penalty from the federal government just so your assistant coach's compensation will look lower than it actually is?  If the salary looks like $10,000 a year and it's really $20,000, what benefit does the school receive from listing the former?  I don't see the benefit that a school will get from the risk associated with "creative accounting."

[hasanova]

As rumored earlier in this forum, Guilford alumnus Caleb Kimbrough '08 fills Matt Parke's vacated Assistant Men's Basketball coaching role for the Quakers (GC press release cited on d3hoops.com home page).  Matt, of course, is now the HC at Averett and Caleb spent the 2009-10 season as an assistant at W&L after a one-year stint with the Washington Generals (Harlem Globetrotters' "opponent").  Guilford's fiscal year begins July 1, so my guess is that's his first official day.

Congratulations and good luck to both men in their new roles!  Go Quakers!

[hasanova]

In case you didn't see the press release (also cited on the d3hoops.com home page), Guilford alumnus Tyler Sanborn '10 has been invited by the NBA's LA Lakers to play for their summer Developmental League team in Las Vegas in July.  In addition to the Lakers, Tyler also had pre-draft tryouts with the Memphis Grizzlies and the Charlotte Bobcats.  Congratulations, Tyler!  As the old saying goes, "the harder I work, the luckier I get!"