MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[stillfamily]

Pa Royals Fan,
              To answer your question (and I have first hand info), whether anyone 'should have' wanted to play EMU or not, no one would commit. Teams saw the writing on the wall with 5 Seniors. I know for a fact, that Coach Dean called over 50 schools looking for games and could only find one school willing to play (Wooster) that never happened b/c of a scheduling conflict  EMU scheduling ground to a halt when during the 2008-09 season EMU went 15-10 starting 4 sophomores.  Everybody took notice of the talent that was ahead. In today's college basketball landscape even D3 coaches are nervous about job security which makes scheduling tough for an up and coming program. 
As for the tournaments in Vegas....I was under the impression they were invitation tournaments and unless those tournaments were paying a hefty guarantee....it would be nearly impossible for a low budget program like EMU to play in a tournament like that.  EMU still doesn't even have a full time paid assistant because of budget constraints, so I'm pretty sure they can't fly the team to Vegas to build their regional resume!!  One last thing....one of EMU's non D3 games was against NAIA Southern Va.  Southern Va. went 9-1 vs. D3 competition with their only loss coming to EMU. They also defeated Ramapo on a neutral floor....yet that did nothing to build EMU's NCAA resume...all I can say is Wow!!  It almost appears to me that schools that are not as good the year before or who have budgets to fly and play anywhere (or pay guarantee's for home games) have a distinct advantage when it comes to selection Monday??
At the end of the day EMU was #11 in the nation and that didn't help them b/c of regional ranking criteria is the deciding factor!!!How can you be a top 25 team and not make the tournament of 61. I'll answer my own question, b/c national rankings mean nothing!! Yet, UW Riverfalls who has lost 5 of their last 6 games and is 20-7 overall makes the Dance??? WOW

It is what it is Stillfamily...there's nothing we can do about it now, althought I wish we could. We were shafted and whether people want to admit it or not, we'd probably beat half the "criteria abiding deserving teams" in the words of these bogus administrators. lol
This entire thing is a joke.

I agree 100%

I could easily see EMU, VWC and RMC making the Final 4 this year if they were seperated into different brackets! It would have happend last year too if they didn't put EMU with GC.

[Brian Hamilton]

stillfamily,
I like the ODAC and think we are a strong conference, but I don't believe all 3 ODAC teams would've made the Final Four last year if they were in different brackets.  Remember that both Macon and GC lost the semifinal.  If either of them or EMU were in a different bracket and made the Elite 8, they would've played one of those teams before the Final Four.  Given that GC and Macon lost in Salem to them and that EMU lost to GC in the Elite 8, I would venture to say that two teams was probably still the magic number.

EMU fans,
While I agree that EMU is a good team, we must remember that D3Hoops national rankings are separate and independent from the NCAA's regional rankings.  Saying that the #11 team should not be at home is fine, but remember that you are comparing apples to oranges.  The criteria for being voted #11 for D3Hoops is very different than the criteria for the regional rankings.  People had been predicting that EMU would likely be left out of the tournament since before the ODAC tournament.  In fact, someone had indicated that they may have missed the NCAA's if they lost to VWC in the rescheduled game.  They won that game, but they were still fighting an uphill battle because the only quality wins were against VWC.  My complaint and the one that I hear most often is that we are using regional criteria for a national tournament.  Unfortunately, this is necessary because of the regional nature of D3.  There is very little basis to determine how good a program in the West is compared to a program in the Midatlantic.  As a result, we tend to try to choose the best from each region and then let things shake out.  This means that some deserving teams may be left out, but it avoids bias or regional favoritism.

[Will2Win]

stillfamily,
I like the ODAC and think we are a strong conference, but I don't believe all 3 ODAC teams would've made the Final Four last year if they were in different brackets.  Remember that both Macon and GC lost the semifinal.  If either of them or EMU were in a different bracket and made the Elite 8, they would've played one of those teams before the Final Four.  Given that GC and Macon lost in Salem to them and that EMU lost to GC in the Elite 8, I would venture to say that two teams was probably still the magic number.

EMU fans,
While I agree that EMU is a good team, we must remember that D3Hoops national rankings are separate and independent from the NCAA's regional rankings.  Saying that the #11 team should not be at home is fine, but remember that you are comparing apples to oranges.  The criteria for being voted #11 for D3Hoops is very different than the criteria for the regional rankings.  People had been predicting that EMU would likely be left out of the tournament since before the ODAC tournament.  In fact, someone had indicated that they may have missed the NCAA's if they lost to VWC in the rescheduled game.  They won that game, but they were still fighting an uphill battle because the only quality wins were against VWC.  My complaint and the one that I hear most often is that we are using regional criteria for a national tournament.  Unfortunately, this is necessary because of the regional nature of D3.  There is very little basis to determine how good a program in the West is compared to a program in the Midatlantic.  As a result, we tend to try to choose the best from each region and then let things shake out.  This means that some deserving teams may be left out, but it avoids bias or regional favoritism.

I am completely aware of how the NCAA committee makes their decisions for at larges, just think it's bologna...No way EMU should be at home (Let me re-phrase that....if the NCAA were to select the top 61 teams in D3, there's no way EMU should be at home. But as we know the NCAA cant possibly put the 61 BEST TEAMS in the tourney because their method of choosing teams is soo flawed!!!). Thats all

[hsctigers2002]

stillfamily,
I like the ODAC and think we are a strong conference, but I don't believe all 3 ODAC teams would've made the Final Four last year if they were in different brackets.  Remember that both Macon and GC lost the semifinal.  If either of them or EMU were in a different bracket and made the Elite 8, they would've played one of those teams before the Final Four.  Given that GC and Macon lost in Salem to them and that EMU lost to GC in the Elite 8, I would venture to say that two teams was probably still the magic number.

EMU fans,
While I agree that EMU is a good team, we must remember that D3Hoops national rankings are separate and independent from the NCAA's regional rankings.  Saying that the #11 team should not be at home is fine, but remember that you are comparing apples to oranges.  The criteria for being voted #11 for D3Hoops is very different than the criteria for the regional rankings.  People had been predicting that EMU would likely be left out of the tournament since before the ODAC tournament.  In fact, someone had indicated that they may have missed the NCAA's if they lost to VWC in the rescheduled game.  They won that game, but they were still fighting an uphill battle because the only quality wins were against VWC.  My complaint and the one that I hear most often is that we are using regional criteria for a national tournament.  Unfortunately, this is necessary because of the regional nature of D3.  There is very little basis to determine how good a program in the West is compared to a program in the Midatlantic.  As a result, we tend to try to choose the best from each region and then let things shake out.  This means that some deserving teams may be left out, but it avoids bias or regional favoritism.

I am completely aware of how the NCAA committee makes their decisions for at larges, just think it's bologna...No way EMU should be at home (Let me re-phrase that....if the NCAA were to select the top 61 teams in D3, there's no way EMU should be at home. But as we know the NCAA cant possibly put the 61 BEST TEAMS in the tourney because their method of choosing teams is soo flawed!!!). Thats all

The NCAA Tournament isn't the best 61, just like at D1 it isn't the best 68 or however many it is. It's the conference winners then the best of the remaining, which for D3 is only 18 (not counting pool B). If you give automatic bids to conferences, you are never going to get the best 61...

[donho]

 As I said about R-MC not hosting this weekend, We are not, because we lost twice to VWC therefor we do not deserve to host. It is called taking care of business. Likewise EMU is sitting home because they lost three games to R-MC. If you win one of those games you are probably dancing.
And I also do not buy that no one wanted to play EMU because they were to good, if they were to good they would not have lost three times to one team.

[stillfamily]

uphill battle because the only quality wins were against VWC.  My complaint and the one that I hear most often is that we are using regional criteria for a national tournament.  Unfortunately, this is necessary because of the regional nature of D3.  There is very little basis to determine how good a program in the West is compared to a program in the Midatlantic.  As a result, we tend to try to choose the best from each region and then let things shake out.  This means that some deserving teams may be left out, but it avoids bias or regional favoritism.

I stated that #11 EMU means nothing! The only thing that matters is Regional Rankings. So there is no need for National Rankings it means nothing.  There is Regional Bias, it's evident.  McMurry and Mary Hardin-Baylor were not even ranked in the last region rankings prior to this week. Now Mcmurry beats Texas-Dallas and Mary Hardin Baylor to win the tournament and they jump to 3,4,5 and your telling me that they were quality regional wins. when only Texas -Dallas was previously ranked??  EMU beat the #1 team VWC in the Region and beat the likes of HSC 2x's. Beating those 2 teams isn't better than beating Mary Hardin-Baylor or Texas-Dallas?? It is simple, they are all in Texas and in the same conference, therefore the travel is simple instead of flying one team, b/c they should only have 1 team in this tournament!

[stillfamily]

As I said about R-MC not hosting this weekend, We are not, because we lost twice to VWC therefor we do not deserve to host. It is called taking care of business. Likewise EMU is sitting home because they lost three games to R-MC. If you win one of those games you are probably dancing.
And I also do not buy that no one wanted to play EMU because they were to good, if they were to good they would not have lost three times to one team.

First off EMU beat GC last year by 23+pts and then GC hosted both rounds and EMU lost to GC in the Elite 8 at GC. So EMU beats GC and deserved to host instead of GC, but didn't.
I don't really care whether you buy it or not Donho, it seems your questioning my integrity on this one. I am telling you I have first hand info that over 50+ schools would not play EMU last year and that includes 2 Division I programs that denied EMU a game and 50+ D3 schools denied EMU a game! Plain and simple my friend. Yes, if EMU beat RMC 1x they would be dancing. As for your comment "if EMU was that good they wouldn't have lost to the same team 3 times". Well VWC is hosting and EMU has beaten them 5 or 6 times in a row. And I am not taking a shot at VWC college I am just using this as a reference. So does that mean VWC is not good. I think not my friend.

[yj424]

I have first hand info that over 50+ schools would not play EMU last year and that includes 2 Division I programs that denied EMU

stillfamily.....please  pamper us... just exactly is that list of 50 plus teams that would not play EMU....just curious....since you are such "in the know"

[stillfamily]

Just for the sake of comparison....We all know that Ferrum was on the board and EMU was not for a final at large, we also know that Ferrum was higher in the final regional rankings.  EMU and Ferrum had very similarschedules.....Ferrum only had 8 teams on their schedule that EMU did not and those teams had a combined record of 88 wins vs. 121 losses. Likewise, EMU had 8 opponents on their schedule that Ferrum did not and their combined record was 124-83.  So...Ferrum finished higher than EMU in the final regional ranking in spite of this massive difference of winning percentage of non common opponents and in spite of EMU beating Ferrum head to head.  Ferrum was rewarded for playing very poor south region teams and EMU was penalized for playing an NAIA like Southern Va. who went 9-1 vs. D3 teams and beat Ramapo (who is hosting this weekend) on a neutral floor. If that is not a flawed system I don't know what is??  Based on the criteria....it appears fair that EMU is out, but it sure seems that the criteria could use some evaluation.

Side Note: Texas league that has 3 teams in this year went  1-2 in the tournament last year, while the ODAC went 12-4.

SOS is one of the factors.

Mary Hardin-Baylor: .508
Eastern Mennonite: .499
Texas-Dallas: .485
Ferrum: .471

[deanslist]

yj424, Coach Dean was on Hoopsville yesterday afternoon and said he contacted 60-70 south region schools during the beginning to middle of last season and only Wooster wanted to play. Conflicting dates prevented that game from happening.

I think part of the reason you see/read so much passion from EMU fans over the past 2 days is because we truly have enjoyed and embraced this team and what this senior class has been able to accomplish. We understand the history of EMU basketball and how difficult it is and now was to get the program to where it has been the last two seasons. I thought the passion of the Harrisonburg community and alumni was evident at the ODAC Tournament this year and even at Guilford last year for the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 games. I'm sure Hasanova was there and can vouch that EMU fans nearly out numbered Guilford in Greensboro last year. The past two years have been a special run not only because of the quality of the teams, but because this has never happened at EMU. It has been documented the limited resources Coach Dean and his staff has to work with, which makes the past two seasons that much more remarkable! The great thing about Kirby and his staff is that they don't use that as an excuse, but instead motivation.

I know and understand the current D3 system that is in place to set the field of 61. I know the importance of regional rankings opposed to the D3 Top 25. I know EMU didn't have enough quality in region wins. I know EMU was undoubtedly one of the top 17 pool c teams that should have made the tournament. You would think the NCAA would want to try and fill the bracket from pool c with the best teams available and obviously they failed to do so. I don't think there is any doubt EMU was one of the top 17 pool c teams. Thanks Runnin' Royals for an exciting couple of seasons! It was a lot of fun to watch and good luck in all you do after graduation.

[stillfamily]

I have first hand info that over 50+ schools would not play EMU last year and that includes 2 Division I programs that denied EMU

stillfamily.....please  pamper us... just exactly is that list of 50 plus teams that would not play EMU....just curious....since you are such "in the know"

Well for starters it was mentioned on Hoopsville live cast when Head Coach Kirby Dean was interviewed and stated he called over 60-70 teams and either their schedules were full, or they agreed and said they would call back and then never did. With the respect to not calling the teams out individually. I can say USAC, SCAC,ASC, NJAC,SKY, GSAC to name a few conferences that had teams that were contacted. So, the point is that ended up playing a few NAIA scholarship teams and got penalized for it. And the combined record of those non D 3 teams was still a respectable 61-66. Much better than the Ferrum opponents that they get credit for beating.

With this being said.. I am going to just move on.. EMU got screwed, bottom line.. Best of luck to VWC and RMC.   Thank you EMU for a wonderful run the past two seasons, and lets load up over the recruiting year and get to the tournament next year and so on and so forth! The injustice was done to the players, and the National Tournament itself for not having the best teams in it.

[yj424]

I agree.... EMU is one of the best teams in all of D3....would beat at least half of the 61 team field and then some...I am disappointed that the Running Royals are not in  the tournament...that smacks the ODAC in the face....EMU deserved to be in the NCAA

Still the lingering question.....who are the 50 plus(out of 340) D3 schools(and D1) that denied themselves an opportunity to play EMU?

[yj424]

Thank you EMU for a wonderful run the past two seasons


And not only the past 2 seasons....hopefully you watched these young men as freshmen and sophomores,....and grasped what Coach Dean was building upon...that's the beauty of D3 sports.... no matter what sport....to follow a freshman class bond and blend with upperclassmen and the following freshman class afterwards...and become successful....and on... and on...and on...

It's called building a program.....will you be with them next year?.... I certainly hope so!

[deanslist]

Of course we will continue to follow, cheer, and support the EMU basketball program for many years to come. I know myself and others were loyal fans even when we had single digit win seasons! That is probably why there was so much hype and passion from the community and alumni for the past two years because they realize where the program had been and where it is headed.

[yj424]

That's great! Keep supporting your programs. There will be more high points and some low points as younger students come in and grow. Keep graduating your student atheletes....with them becoming successful in their future lives and dependent of all...well, isn't that all The  University... or parent can wish for?