MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[purpleheart22]

Cry yourself to sleep R-MC fans and players.  You guys make all kinds of excuses up for getting handled sat. nite.  Its ashame you cry about everything when your team loses just except the fact that you guys weren't prepared or ready to win against SMCM at their home court.  F&M had the same crowd last year in a sweet 16 game and they pulled it out.  excuses are like buttholes everybody has one and they all stink.  That is two ODAC teams that have felt the wrath of SMCM in the 2nd round of the tourney in the last two years.  Not to mention in St Mary's very first sweet 16 appearance a few years ago they beat Guilford at Guilford.  Sounds like the ODAC cant match up with SMCM come tourney time.  Its ok all you bitter old R-MC alumni just write another check to school and get better kids for next year.  At least the seniors got an ODAC championship at R-MC.  Virginia is for lovers, Maryland is for ballers. 

[nescac1]

ODAC fans, just curious, how would you compare VWU to last year's Guilford teams, in terms of overall strength?  Biggest strengths / weaknesses?  Seems like they are very balanced, quick, and can shoot, though maybe on the smallish side.  A better-shooting version of the teams that gave the Ephs trouble this weekend, which worries me a bit ....

The Ephs are a very different team from the team that beat Guilford, probably, when 100 percent healthy, about even with last year.  They can still shoot well, but won't put on a ridiculous long-range shooting display like they did vs. Guilford, and they are not quite as tall / long, but they are more athletic, play better defense, and are tougher on the boards.   The Ephs are young (two of the key players are frosh, two of the top four are sophomores), but 4/5 starters have a ton of big game experience. 

[hasanova]

ODAC fans, just curious, how would you compare VWU to last year's Guilford teams, in terms of overall strength?  Biggest strengths / weaknesses?  Seems like they are very balanced, quick, and can shoot, though maybe on the smallish side.  A better-shooting version of the teams that gave the Ephs trouble this weekend, which worries me a bit ....

The Ephs are a very different team from the team that beat Guilford, probably, when 100 percent healthy, about even with last year.  They can still shoot well, but won't put on a ridiculous long-range shooting display like they did vs. Guilford, and they are not quite as tall / long, but they are more athletic, play better defense, and are tougher on the boards.   The Ephs are young (two of the key players are frosh, two of the top four are sophomores), but 4/5 starters have a ton of big game experience. 

VWC has great athletes, but perhaps a bit undisciplined at times.  They may prove me wrong, but I don't think VWC's a Final Four team this year.  Guilford (in 2010) had a great inside presence and two All-American calibre guards.  Seven games out of ten last season, Guilford would have beaten Williams ... but 16 out of 27 threes with a hand in your face and it's just not your night.    I thought Guilford was going to win it all last season and were (in my opinion) a much more balanced squad than this version of the Marlins.

[DeWayneCarter]

Cry yourself to sleep R-MC fans and players.  You guys make all kinds of excuses up for getting handled sat. nite.  Its ashame you cry about everything when your team loses just except the fact that you guys weren't prepared or ready to win against SMCM at their home court.  F&M had the same crowd last year in a sweet 16 game and they pulled it out.  excuses are like buttholes everybody has one and they all stink.  That is two ODAC teams that have felt the wrath of SMCM in the 2nd round of the tourney in the last two years.  Not to mention in St Mary's very first sweet 16 appearance a few years ago they beat Guilford at Guilford.  Sounds like the ODAC cant match up with SMCM come tourney time.  Its ok all you bitter old R-MC alumni just write another check to school and get better kids for next year.  At least the seniors got an ODAC championship at R-MC.  Virginia is for lovers, Maryland is for ballers. 

How many national championships does St. Mary's have??? Better yet, once they finally made it past the 2nd round, how many times has St. Mary's advanced past the sweet 16 in the NCAA Tourney? Because RMC, Guilford, HSC, EMU, AND Virginia Wesleyan have all made it to at least the Elite Eight, with RMC, Guilford, HSC and VWC all advancing to a Final Four, AND HSC and VWC advancing to National ChampionshipS. Oh yeah, VWC won it all before too, soo please take that Maryland stuff somewhere else. Thank you very much.

[DeWayneCarter]

Highlight tape from VWC's first 2 games in the NCAA Tourney... no sound 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMpwi_Rc6wM

[Will2Win]

Cry yourself to sleep R-MC fans and players.  You guys make all kinds of excuses up for getting handled sat. nite.  Its ashame you cry about everything when your team loses just except the fact that you guys weren't prepared or ready to win against SMCM at their home court.  F&M had the same crowd last year in a sweet 16 game and they pulled it out.  excuses are like buttholes everybody has one and they all stink.  That is two ODAC teams that have felt the wrath of SMCM in the 2nd round of the tourney in the last two years.  Not to mention in St Mary's very first sweet 16 appearance a few years ago they beat Guilford at Guilford.  Sounds like the ODAC cant match up with SMCM come tourney time.  Its ok all you bitter old R-MC alumni just write another check to school and get better kids for next year.  At least the seniors got an ODAC championship at R-MC.  Virginia is for lovers, Maryland is for ballers. 

Post on your own board. You're not welcome here!!!!    

[hsctigers2002]

VWC in a quick nut shell:
Offense: Jump shooting team, tend to fall in love with jumpers even when they aren't shooting it well - attempt 22 three pointers a game. Poor free throw shooting team. Very good shooters. Not much in the way of post scoring, posts are finishers as opposed to shot creators. Get in transition very well. Hit the glass hard - good offensive rebounding team. Protect the ball well, only 12.3 turnovers a game. Not a particularly efficient offensive team in terms of scoring %s because of the plethora of jump shots - shoot 43.5% overall, 48.2% on all two pointers, 35% from three, 69% 68.8% from FT.

Defense: Have a tendency to foul a lot. Struggle when teams command the paint - which leads to a high number of fouls. Very good shot blocking team despite not much size. Not great at defending shots, but fairly respectable - teams shoot 42.5% overall. Do a good job defending the three point shot - teams have only made 97 against them and shoot 30.8%. Part of that is because they can crowd you more on the three point line - and then if they drive past you, the shot blockers can provide strong help D. Force a lot of turnovers - 16 per game. Good rebounding team, they grab right at 71% of all possible defensive rebounds. Would have a much higher rebounding margin than just 2.5, but they aren't the most efficient offensive team in the world as previously explained.

[nescac1]

Thanks for the info on VWU, guys.  Based on what hsc says, should be a very interesting match-up, two teams with very different strengths / styles.  Williams, as always, shoots very well from both three and the line, though again, not like last year as they miss Schultz and Rubin.  They have one unstoppable one-on-one inside player in Whittington, but otherwise, no other post threats.  Most of their offense comes from guards penetrating (three guards who can take their man off the dribble) and kicking, good off-the-ball movement, and teams ganging up on Whittington inside, as he often finds the open man (or if he is left in one-on-one situation, which almost never happens, he will be the offense).  Rebounding has been an issue in the past but they have been boarding it VERY well in recent weeks.  Their biggest issue on offense is turnovers, and I am sure VWU will look to exploit that, that is my biggest concern as an Eph fan coming into this game.  Williams converts at the foul line so hopefully VWU will be foul-prone this game ... the Ephs are adept a drawing fouls, especially Wang, Whittington, Rooke-Ley.  A few of Williams' deep shooters had been cold in recent weeks, but they turned it around last weekend. 

On D, Williams plays very smart.  They rarely give up easy looks as you can see from the opposing FG percentage.  They take few risks, and don't create a ton of TO's, so they rely on making life tough for opposing shooters -- never a ton of space.  They do an especially good job defending guards, adept at switching up high, but have a tough time with big and/or athletic fours who can post up.  When Troy is in the game and not in foul trouble he will block a ton of shots. 

On another note, I do think Williams was slightly better than Guilford last year.  Yes, they were red-hot in that game, but Williams was often red hot last year (45 percent from 3 on the year!).  I thought Williams' three huge stars were about even with Guilford's three stars, but that Williams had a deeper team overall with another 3-4 guys who could hurt you.  I  also thought certain things went Guilford's way in that game, just like the shooting went well for the Ephs. 

[hasanova]

On another note, I do think Williams was slightly better than Guilford last year.  Yes, they were red-hot in that game, but Williams was often red hot last year (45 percent from 3 on the year!).  I thought Williams' three huge stars were about even with Guilford's three stars, but that Williams had a deeper team overall with another 3-4 guys who could hurt you.  I  also thought certain things went Guilford's way in that game, just like the shooting went well for the Ephs.  

You could be right.  I definitely saw a great team in Williams.  I was in Salem last year and I kept thinking, "If they would just miss a couple of threes, we can win this game."  It was a heartbreaker for Guilford fans.  C'est la vie. 

[stillfamily]

Cry yourself to sleep R-MC fans and players.  You guys make all kinds of excuses up for getting handled sat. nite.  Its ashame you cry about everything when your team loses just except the fact that you guys weren't prepared or ready to win against SMCM at their home court.  F&M had the same crowd last year in a sweet 16 game and they pulled it out.  excuses are like buttholes everybody has one and they all stink.  That is two ODAC teams that have felt the wrath of SMCM in the 2nd round of the tourney in the last two years.  Not to mention in St Mary's very first sweet 16 appearance a few years ago they beat Guilford at Guilford.  Sounds like the ODAC cant match up with SMCM come tourney time.  Its ok all you bitter old R-MC alumni just write another check to school and get better kids for next year.  At least the seniors got an ODAC championship at R-MC.  Virginia is for lovers, Maryland is for ballers. 

How many national championships does St. Mary's have??? Better yet, once they finally made it past the 2nd round, how many times has St. Mary's advanced past the sweet 16 in the NCAA Tourney? Because RMC, Guilford, HSC, EMU, AND Virginia Wesleyan have all made it to at least the Elite Eight, with RMC, Guilford, HSC and VWC all advancing to a Final Four, AND HSC and VWC advancing to National ChampionshipS. Oh yeah, VWC won it all before too, soo please take that Maryland stuff somewhere else. Thank you very much.

Couldn't have said this better!!!!! St. Mary's wins onc game and all the sudden Maryland is for ballers. Get real!! Way to put this in prospective 5 ODAC teams advanced further! WOW, LOL!

[algernon]

Highlight tape from VWC's first 2 games in the NCAA Tourney... no sound  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMpwi_Rc6wM

Thanks for that.  Good quality tape!  If I were Williams, I think that I'd be a bit fearful of the fish.  The #4 Williams / #10 VWC (not VWU, you non-ODACers) game is one that is maybe happening "early" in the tournament.  It's got the quality of a #3 UW Stevens Point v. #8 St. Thomas and it's unfortunate that one of these two teams will be finished after Friday.

Thanks for the clarification, Ralph Turner and Pat Coleman.  If I understand correctly, St. Mary's record against regionally-ranked opponents included their 2-1 record against a team that wasn't good enough to make the final list of 9 ranked Mid-Atlantic teams.

[algernon]

Why couldn't they have simply left the all of the pods as they were, but simply move the St. Mary's / RMC pod games to RMC?

This would have resulted in Cabrini hosting a pod while the team ahead of it in the regional rankings, St. Mary's, was on the road. This was seen as not being any better.

So maybe they would have had St. Mary's hosting that pod on the other side of the bracket, with New Jersey City, Hartwick, and SUNY-Purchase coming to play.  Cabrini, Medgar Evers, and Alvernia would have come to play at Randolph-Macon.  Doesn't seem that difficult .... and Cabrini, as the #3 team in the Mid-Atlantic, would have been able to make sense of such a change, given that Randolph-Macon would have been hosting except for a failure of NCAA communication.

I suppose that there would have been as much or more hoopla about changing the bracket to make it better, though, as there has been about the inadequacy of the error-driven bracket that was created.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Let's not forget... this was three hours at least after the men's bracket was announced and traveling plans were already in place. Yes... it sounds easy in hindsight... but without the entire committee jumping back on a conference call and discussing it - taking more time when other conference calls would allow (hosting schools, in particular) - this wasn't something they could just throw together. They spent hours Sunday and Monday putting it together... it isn't like they could fix it in 10 minutes.

[FISHTANKFAN]

Hopefully someone in the NCAA has apologized for the unforseen error, just as a matter of courtesy, to all connected. 

[Ralph Turner]

Highlight tape from VWC's first 2 games in the NCAA Tourney... no sound  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMpwi_Rc6wM

Thanks for that.  Good quality tape!  If I were Williams, I think that I'd be a bit fearful of the fish.  The #4 Williams / #10 VWC (not VWU, you non-ODACers) game is one that is maybe happening "early" in the tournament.  It's got the quality of a #3 UW Stevens Point v. #8 St. Thomas and it's unfortunate that one of these two teams will be finished after Friday.

Thanks for the clarification, Ralph Turner and Pat Coleman.  If I understand correctly, St. Mary's record against regionally-ranked opponents included their 2-1 record against a team that wasn't good enough to make the final list of 9 ranked Mid-Atlantic teams.

Thanks.

Please remember that the men only rank 1 team for every 6.5 members in a region.*  That is roughly the top 15 percent.  I am happy that they now begin the ranking in the last 4 weeks of the season, when teams have played 2/3rd's to 3/4th's of the their games.  I also like the "once-ranked/always ranked feature" on those teams at the end of the season.  It expands the pool against whom a team can be judged by another 10% of the field.  In fact,  this is the 10% of the field where we can discern some real drop-off in quality.  (The South finally had 11 teams of the 51 teams that were eligible appear in the Regional Rankings for the season.)

The top 3-4 teams (usually the Top 10%) of the region are not playing each other.  We get those extra match-ups in the next 15% of the field.  The winnowing that takes place in the last month is those teams that will work themselves out as:

a 90%-ile team and in the best 3-4 in a region, (or top 6 in the mid-Atlantic), or

an 85%-ile and the last of the ranked teams in a region when the 1:6.5 is invoked, or

a top 75-80%-ile, the bubble teams that are clawing for a bid, usually a conference Pool A bid, because they have one too many losses to be in the Regionally Ranked at the end of the season.

As for 2-out-of 3, that is good enough to advance in many post-season elimination series.

I was surprised by how much trouble Randy Mac had with Alvernia (18-7 on the season and the #8 regionally ranked team in the Mid-Atlantic) on a neutral floor.   That should have been a double-digit smack down!

(*Women rank the Top 6 teams regardless of the number of teams in a region, except the Northeast Region.)